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 Orlanth wrote:
I founds diplomacy pants-on-head slowed at higher difficulty levels. I had Empire provinces about to disappear under a tide of greenskins or get turned into vamp charnal pit, yet they still will not see eye to eye.

Most factions wont even agree to mutual trade. Hey Nuln, dont you actually like money?

"Sir the Orks are attacking the gate!"
"I don't care! This idiot from the Reikland is trying to offer us help! I need to tell him to feth off!"

Yeah, but the game would be too easy if the provinces all had that diplo buff that every good guy gets when Chaos shows up

What impressed me in particular from the climactic final Wood Elf campaign battle (great touch by the way) was

1. How much I love and hate dryads (mine tend to not kill very much, but they are close to fearless and basically never run until they are almost wiped out, so I can't hate them).

2. How much Treemen, and Durthu in particular, kick cosmic amounts of butt. Maxed out combat Durthu (except that dubious weapon damage talent) with a healing potion and his really powerful weapon ability resulted in hundreds upon hundreds of kills for him alone and he ended the battle at well over half HP. My other three Treemen got about a hundred kills each with barely a smudge to their HP bars. Man they rock!

3. The Lore of Life has stellar synergy with the Wood Elves. Great Eagles, Tree Kin, Treemen and all characters love that healing boost. My Branchwraith (who I had given a few combat talents as well) ended the fight with nearly full HP despite wading through the melee, even though he/she/it actually spent more time casting penumbral pendulums and other fun things. What a champ.

4. If anything, the Wood Elf army roster synergises very well with itself overall. They have a solid toolkit with no particular weakness. Great eagles and eagle riders deal superbly with artillery hanging back, Tree Kin are excellent roadblock tank units to stall enemies while your archers unload into them and your cavalry flanks them, they can severely punish and disrupt gunlines with eagle-riding pendulum spellsingers...

5. The fact that Wood Elves get a caster Treeman as a Lord is... strong. Is that not a bit OP? I mean looking at what others get (like chaos lord or chaos sorcerer lord) a Treeman caster just seems way better.

After extensive testing by one of the finest total war community players and a die hard elf fan he has concluded they mostly suck and need buffs online.

More or less just confirming what I say. However he did discover one cheese build. As much treemen as you can and lore of life spam as a gimmick build, but it's got some easy hard counters if people are expecting it. He says this is the only viable build they got against dwarves so they will always expect it.

 Ashiraya wrote:
They are oddly hostile to you in their little talk things, and I am not sure why, but it's just angry speech. They are rather neutral to you diplomatically, at least until you start stacking up positive bonuses by fighting things around you.

Nope I saved the ungratefull sods from several hordes of O&G, Dwarfs and Bretonnians and still they are more or less telling me to go hug a Gor! Ungratefullness is my reward it seems

 War Kitten wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
I founds diplomacy pants-on-head slowed at higher difficulty levels. I had Empire provinces about to disappear under a tide of greenskins or get turned into vamp charnal pit, yet they still will not see eye to eye.

Most factions wont even agree to mutual trade. Hey Nuln, dont you actually like money?

"Sir the Orks are attacking the gate!"
"I don't care! This idiot from the Reikland is trying to offer us help! I need to tell him to feth off!"

My thoughts exactly.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Yeah, but the game would be too easy if the provinces all had that diplo buff that every good guy gets when Chaos shows up

It was easily fixable. There should have been seperate trackers for short and lpng term diplomacy.

Threats effect short term diplomacy, meaning the faction will offer short term deals.

1. Orcs at the gates, but they dont like KF as Emperor = yes they agree to an 'alliance of convenience' but never a confederation and the alliance expires at end of crisis.

2. they like gold but they dont like you = trade agreement signed, but much is lost in inefficiency and it rises relations only marginally, because in their eyese they are taking economic advantage of those gullible Reiklanders. Trade deals should be in three categories, weak strong and fair. Strong trade deals are economic exploitation by your faction, they gain less gold over time due to corruption and incur a diplomatic penalty for a while, weak trade deals are the ones you can easily get but offer you very little and are hard to renegotiate, they offer a low bonus to relations. Fair terms are hard to achieve.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
What impressed me in particular from the climactic final Wood Elf campaign battle (great touch by the way) was
3. The Lore of Life has stellar synergy with the Wood Elves. Great Eagles, Tree Kin, Treemen and all characters love that healing boost. My Branchwraith (who I had given a few combat talents as well) ended the fight with nearly full HP despite wading through the melee, even though he/she/it actually spent more time casting penumbral pendulums and other fun things. What a champ.

Jade wizards and Life damsels are going to be must takes, what helps the Wood Elves stay on the table will make a massed Empire greatsword brigade extra awesome. Grey wizards also hold promise.
I do think lores should be unevenly available for Empire i.e most wizards graduating from Altdorf U should be bright or celestial, with a fair few light and gold, the other four colleges should be pretty rare.

 War Kitten wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
I founds diplomacy pants-on-head slowed at higher difficulty levels. I had Empire provinces about to disappear under a tide of greenskins or get turned into vamp charnal pit, yet they still will not see eye to eye.

Most factions wont even agree to mutual trade. Hey Nuln, dont you actually like money?

"Sir the Orks are attacking the gate!"
"I don't care! This idiot from the Reikland is trying to offer us help! I need to tell him to feth off!"

Or when an enemy attacks you and goes through somebody else's territory and attacking the army by going through neutral territory makes the owner angry. Oh but keep in mind the neutral army get no penalty for moving openly in your borders. Hypocritical ***hats. Or when you have to get an open border treaty going so somebody will let you through to deal with chaos or to help an ally.

As far as Hard difficulty i just find giving a person money tends to work wonders. Even as vampires i have like an empire province and dwarf army fighting alongside me. Haven't played that game in a while though. Did the new DLC ruin saved games?

DLC do not make saved games unplayable.

Jade wizards and Life damsels are going to be must takes, what helps the Wood Elves stay on the table will make a massed Empire greatsword brigade extra awesome

Why so? Unlike Vampire spells this does not resurrect fallen troops, it just heals living ones. I have often seen my Tree Kin units drop to half health without losing a model. Treemen and Great Eagles, obviously, will always fully benefit. Infantry, on the other hand, tend to lose models much faster.

 Ashiraya wrote:
DLC do not make saved games unplayable.

They absolutely ruin mods though and mods are what makes the game playable at this stage.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
DLC do not make saved games unplayable.

They absolutely ruin mods though and mods are what makes the game playable at this stage.

That is certainly a matter of opinion.

Plus a lot of the more popular mods have already been updated. I swear... some people just can't be pleased. So we had to wait 3-4 days for a lot of mods to get patched. Oh noes...

 djones520 wrote:
So we had to wait 3-4 days for a lot of mods to get patched.

Given that a lot of mods aren't updated anymore it will be a long wait.

I use a lot of outdated mods. It has caused no issues so far.

I agree that the game is a lot better with mods (who got the genius idea to not give Archaon black armour??) but I can stand playing it modless with friends who dislike it, and synching mods with different friends who themselves use different mods is a nightmare.

I've never used a single mod on the game.

Is there a reason I should?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Is there a reason I should?

They add significantly to the game. From new and unlocked factions to new units to graphical improvements to significant game play overhauls. As Steam Workshop is so easy to use there is no reason why you shouldn't use mods (aside from DLC breaking them, and your game, of course).

There are 2,283 mods on Steam Workshop at the moment, at least 1 will be of interest to you.

Total War games have always benefited greatly from mods.

Speaking of steam mods there's a few really good ones for xcom 2. One steam mod allows you to make bradford shut up. Another gives you alien squad members with alien specific traits as they level. Some change the soundtrack. Various ones change voices from anything to imperial guard voices to adam jensen from deus ex: human revolution. One is even trying to do a co-op mode.

I haven't used any but i have downloaded some that i haven't activated yet. I think the game is good without mods but i'm very curious what it's like with them. Can't say i've been too excited for any Total War: Warhammer mods from what i've seen so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tmLuTIzaZ0
Hotfixed the wood elves already, lots of buffs .

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never used a single mod on the game.

Is there a reason I should?

I use one mod, character resizer. Characters are oversized so they stand out. I didnt want an 8ft Karl Franz so I added this mod. He still stands out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never used a single mod on the game.

Is there a reason I should?

The mods I use generally make the game more challenging. "Improved Garrisons for (Race) " doubles the amount of units that defend settlements. Deep into the end game, It's almost a full stack army and usually walls/towers in every settlement. And if an actual army is also there, it becomes a huge bloody battle. "Chaos Please Wait" gives me more time to build an empire before the Chaos Invasions start, which are amped up in size/difficulty with more mods themselves to compensate for the fact that I'll probably be ready for it and with tougher towns. "130+ Skills" adds new skills that are pretty well balanced out with negatives if you go deep into certain skills.

After those, it's generally cosmetic mods that I use.

 nels1031 wrote:
The mods I use generally make the game more challenging. "Improved Garrisons for (Race) " doubles the amount of units that defend settlements. Deep into the end game, It's almost a full stack army and usually walls/towers in every settlement. And if an actual army is also there, it becomes a huge bloody battle.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare for Warriors of Chaos.

My one issue is not easily fixed, and it is the excessive focus on Legendary Lords. Like, when I play Argwylon, Durthu is really really cool and I love him to bits but throughout much of the game you only really have enough income to support one real army, which obviously is Durthu's because he is flat out better. I really love the fact that there are female Glade Lords (their inclusion took me somewhat off guard) but there is so little space to use them in comparison. When under attack, the AI typically withdraws to defend its settlements with large forces, which in itself requires a large force to crack; this, the Lords giving army-based buffs, and the upkeep penalty makes recruiting a large number of small armies less than viable.

Early in the game take a bunch of port town then get the research to give them plus 400% gold. Have all the money you need.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
The mods I use generally make the game more challenging. "Improved Garrisons for (Race) " doubles the amount of units that defend settlements. Deep into the end game, It's almost a full stack army and usually walls/towers in every settlement. And if an actual army is also there, it becomes a huge bloody battle.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare for Warriors of Chaos.

It is, and I love it. You want to destroy the world, you gotta be prepared to sacrifice everything!

 nels1031 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
The mods I use generally make the game more challenging. "Improved Garrisons for (Race) " doubles the amount of units that defend settlements. Deep into the end game, It's almost a full stack army and usually walls/towers in every settlement. And if an actual army is also there, it becomes a huge bloody battle.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare for Warriors of Chaos.

It is, and I love it. You want to destroy the world, you gotta be prepared to sacrifice everything!

This and the fact that its highly amusing mowing down the unwashed hordes from the north, with a hail of arrows from my waystalkers

The Wood Elves currently feel a little too strong, especially with the hotfix. The sack-settle attack gives a ton of money to fund armies with and blade dancers chop up most enemies before they get any chance to fight back. With no attrition it is also hilarious to go reverse Chaos wave on Norsca. AI Wood Elves certainly do very well in my games.

Edit: WE are OP as AI fighting other AI. But in my Empire campaign on VH the auto-resolve between one basic stack with some ROR against one full elite stack or even two is a complete one-sided massacre, losing like a 100 soldiers to wipe out both AI WE armies. Basic Empire rebel stacks do more than that.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
The mods I use generally make the game more challenging. "Improved Garrisons for (Race) " doubles the amount of units that defend settlements. Deep into the end game, It's almost a full stack army and usually walls/towers in every settlement. And if an actual army is also there, it becomes a huge bloody battle.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare for Warriors of Chaos.

And easy mode for everyone else. This mod will slow down initial advances but will auto-consolidate your gains and allow a more feasible one stack army which is all you can really afford if you want to grow an economy and military at the same time.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
The mods I use generally make the game more challenging. "Improved Garrisons for (Race) " doubles the amount of units that defend settlements. Deep into the end game, It's almost a full stack army and usually walls/towers in every settlement. And if an actual army is also there, it becomes a huge bloody battle.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare for Warriors of Chaos.

And easy mode for everyone else. This mod will slow down initial advances but will auto-consolidate your gains and allow a more feasible one stack army which is all you can really afford if you want to grow an economy and military at the same time.

Not in my experience. Initial advances are generally fine. Its when the cities have time to go into mid to max tiers or build their respective defensive buildings(ie late game/Initial Chaos Invasion) that advances tend to slow, as you may need at least 2 stacks(depending on the faction) to tackle them with a favorable auto resolve.

I also generally have little to no problem building up armies while growing an economy with this mod either, not sure what you mean with that.

EDIT: I admit "easy mode" is subjective, depending on player skill, game difficulty and faction choice, but this mod most definitely makes it a harder fight to conquer top tier cities and even towns, particularly with the "tier 4 minor settlements" mod and if they have defensive structures. Definitely a bigger challenge than unmodded cities/towns in campaigns.

Its currently on sale for £30 on Steam, it is cheaper on key reseller websites like Kinguin though.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
The Wood Elves currently feel a little too strong, especially with the hotfix. The sack-settle attack gives a ton of money to fund armies with and blade dancers chop up most enemies before they get any chance to fight back. With no attrition it is also hilarious to go reverse Chaos wave on Norsca. AI Wood Elves certainly do very well in my games.

Edit: WE are OP as AI fighting other AI. But in my Empire campaign on VH the auto-resolve between one basic stack with some ROR against one full elite stack or even two is a complete one-sided massacre, losing like a 100 soldiers to wipe out both AI WE armies. Basic Empire rebel stacks do more than that.

I think WE are pretty balanced at this point. I've been playing a fair amount of skirmishes, and they are really good at playing the mavuner and range game, but once their lines start to break it goes downhill very fast for them.

They are in much better shape than they were before, for sure.

Does anyone know how to make a trailing army eff off? I'm playing beastmen and I accidentally got Durthu following me across the old world and they just wont go away. I'm halfway through the empire and they are still coming after me!

Make a hidden encampment in the nearest forest.

He might still detect you, but chances are he'll just walk away.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Make a hidden encampment in the nearest forest.

He might still detect you, but chances are he'll just walk away.

I am kinda afraid too, because his army is just archer spam and would probably instant kill my army if I try. They made it that much more difficult for beastmen lovers didn't they?