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DirtyDeeds wrote:
One thing I'll say is that this codex is too effective at what it does. My local mega can't handle the stormsurge and the hunter contingent and I am forced to leave some of these items off the table to get a game. A little depressing, but that's why I have my Dark Eldar and White Scars.

The Tau Empire has new weapons and it wil take your enemies a bit of time to compensate like always. But perhaps allowing some people to list tailor and try to beat it would train them up. Just give them your list and let them work out a good counter. Banshees, Dirge Casters, Psyker powers that attack leadership and other goodies all come to mind as potential answers.

I am fairly certain a Grav Gun festooned Battle Company can do the trick. The Tau Empire spends all of round one killing the transports that it can (and that wont be a majority) and in round two you start putting wounds on the StormSurge from inside. More tanks die. Round three you finish the job and prepare for endgame charges. Im not a Marine but If i was: that could definitely work.

Pinning the Tau Empire and not allowing them too much room to take objectives is legit and so an army that can box them in is going to do better. If they go the Deep Striking route, it certainly takes away a lot of the threat early on and the DS stuff is going to have to decide whether to abandon its starting contingent or be forced to DS back towards their friends. tough decision.

Tau Empire hates melee so anything you can do to force that issue is good. Outshooting them is a losing strategy. You have to dominate them with your fists, against which they have a very poor set of options. Ghostkeels actually aren't terribad in close combat and will be able to defend their Stealth Teams somewhat at the expense of their firepower. But that might be a trade off a battle company is willing to make!

I play a lot of armies so I kind of look at the armies from both sides. I know where Tau fail: melee and Psyker phase. I know where they dont: shooting and movement phase. Given that information, any foe should be able to at least know what to do and not do. the rest is up to terrain, dice and mid-game adjustments.

My Tau Empire force is going to look cool. That's a big priority. I want it to look awesome on the field. But i better not hear a peep of complaint out of these dudes who have been bringing their Knights, Wraith Knights and White Scars Grav Cannon spam. Not a peep. Not one.

I will exercise more mercy of course against others, but against these foes, there should be no sounds of complaint at all. they've been blessed to face foes who must bring their A game to compete. I have welcomed the challenge. Now they must welcome mine.

Can't handle the stormsurge and hunter contingent? They must be playing rather downpowered lists.
Yes, the contingent is powerful, but no more than decurion or gladius and the likes.
And the surge, while cool, is not the toughest thing out there, by far. He can be erased by massed dakka, not too many quality shots, or semi competent assault units. I'd hardly rate it as top tier unit. High tier, but there is plenty better out there.

Ghostkeel to me is the new swiss army knife of our army, with its cost preventing complete spam tactics.

Even without the OSC formation, its incredibly tanky for its cost (arguably only slightly weaker than a Riptide defensively) and regardless of its weapons you pick it can take on multiple threats effectively.
Crisis Suits have difficulty taking anything on that their gun isnt designed to deal with. Melta -> vehicles, Plasma -> 2+/3+ saves, Bursts/AFB -> Hordes, CIB/Missiles -> High Str Spam for typically anti MC or light vehicles. If theyre not targeting something their weapon is designed to crush, they have a lot of luck involved.

Ghostkeels still have that obviously but its nowhere near as noticeable. CIR + Fusion gives him high rate of fire w/ Large Blast option for numbers and a TL Melta for vehicles. The high strength of the CIR also makes him cripple light vehicles, so thats 3 targets he will be happy to shoot at so far. But im not done.
Ghostkeels are an MC, so they have Smash, Fear, and HoW. Yes hes still WS2, but remember Fear reduces WS to 1 if you fail it and unless he faces something dedicated to melee, he still hits on a 4. Give him a couple of buddies, thats 9/12 on the charge S6 Ap2 attacks with very tanky bodies as well. That means they can charge too, thats a 4th option theyre good at dealing with. Long as you avoid 30man boy blobs or dedicated melee units that strike at init with AP2/3 weapons and/or WS5, a trio can do some hefty melee damage. And personally, thats a very low number of things i want to avoid.

Add in the perks of OSR, and now he wants heavy vehicles too because he STILL hits them hard, and arguably you want the Burst over the Melta in the OSR because 4 S5 against AV10/11 > 1 S8 Melta considering the range factor and glancing to death is much more reliable than exploding.



And im the same way DirtyDeeds. I dont like fielding broken, overpowered armies like the entire Eldar dex or various Marine formation shenanigans. Unless im facing Eldar or im asked to go all out, i leave my Stormsurge and my OSR/Hunter Cadre at home, theyre too strong and cheesy in a friendly game.

Stormsurge isnt designed to be a tank, thats obvious not from its 3+ armor but its T6 stat. Its only tanky purely because its a GMC so its mass of wounds doesnt go away in one round minus a ton of Str D shots or a lucky Deathblow shot. My Riptides are still more durable than my Surge because of the 2+ armor, but it can sometimes fall to a random ID attack while the Surge cant.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Can't handle the stormsurge and hunter contingent? They must be playing rather downpowered lists.
Yes, the contingent is powerful, but no more than decurion or gladius and the likes.
And the surge, while cool, is not the toughest thing out there, by far. He can be erased by massed dakka, not too many quality shots, or semi competent assault units. I'd hardly rate it as top tier unit. High tier, but there is plenty better out there.

Wait... lets be fair. "no more than" the Battle Company and the Decurion? So you'd suggest that because it doesn't rival THOSE it should be dismissed?

No.

I am all for Tau but lets not try to minimize what is clearly a very good contingent. I think those reading who don't play Tau probably find this comparison a bit spurious because by that measure, no formation is "cool" right now! Lol.

It's a very good formation. It doesnt have to be as good as those you mention in order for this to be true.

Thats one thing i despise about the 40k community. Most people immediately dismiss anything thats actually pretty decent/good because its not as broken as something else thats so glaringly broken its a shock it wasnt FAQ'd to fix it, even though GW doesnt usually do that.

Tau codex in its entirety, including the formations, are about as balanced as you can get in this game without going to ultimate cheese levels of strong. They still cross the line imo a bit, but not that badly. Dont care if its doing a 1up on the Eldar dex, i just dont want completely useless units (vespid and our fliers are just garbage....wish they fixed them)

Well... Are they? I wrote this a bit ago:
Tau Flyers

Tau flyers have something that equalizes them a pretty fair amount: the tools to defend their flyers preemptively and after the fact.

I also own 27 Stingwings. Happen to like them. Tough 4, 4+ saves, with Hit and run? Awesome. Equally awesome: STR 5 AP 3 blasters at better range than Breachers. Oh and they are Jump infantry and thus can actually get around fast and DEEP STRIKE! I love Deep Striking in with Tau in general. i play super duper mobile so there's that. No gun lines for this guy.

I just don't see how Vespids are good, and I'm usually one to give things the benefit of the doubt. They just seem really confused in terms of their high initiative and close range weapons, but so few shots, low attack count, and expensive points. Breachers just seem more reasonable as they are a more extreme and focused version of Vespids.

Honestly, if I could make two changes to the Tau army, I'd make Vespids and Stealth Suits troop choices. Sure, they'd still be a little over priced, but they'd at least be unique enough to be considered even at the high points cost when they basically replace 45 points of troops in that situation.

Vespid are the epitome of two roles badly mushed into one. unit.

Their guns scream anti meq. Wounds on 3s, pens power armor, sounds great - except our entire codex is good at doing that for cheaper and/or safer.
Crazy high init and Hit and Run + Jump movement, saying they want melee combat. But they have no melee weapons and their melee stats are still trash.

Ive tried using them via proxy, since i have kroot i just used them as proxy. Opened up a Heavy slot in a single CAD list so i could bring sniper drones by using Vespid instead of an Ionhead for anti 3+ armor units. They did jack squat compared to their cost.

I wish they'd fix Vespid to actually do one of their two roles properly. Obviously giving Tau an amazing melee unit would be a bit out of the question, but one that can hold their ground and isnt deathly afraid of it would be nice - coupled with their speed, they can contest objectives easily.

I think giving Tau an amazing melee unit is fine, as long as it's over costed. As in they take a top tier melee unit and port it into Tau but tax it like 5pts+ per model, such that you can still take it but you're paying more for it by not taking allies. This could be a fine role for Vespid or something like Tau Blademasters who were trained by that one Ethereal with the super glaive thing, where they can be as good as Necron Wraiths but cost like 5pts extra but can't reanimate.

Really that's a good way to balance armies, let everyone do everything, but then make certain things cheaper and certain things more expensive than the middle ground cost, that way you're encouraged, but not required to play in that style and have more control over how the army functions. Trying to limit access to it completely just leaves situations where the army can't function in certain modes completely.

=================


On an unrelated note, has anyone tried large Kroot Squads with Sniper Rounds lately? I remember seeing some people doing that during the mid period of 6th ed Tau with a lot of success but haven't seen it since.

I mean even with minimum squads in the Hunter Contingent that's 30 Sniper shots at 24" range, on models that have infiltrate, for only 198 points. You can even throw in a Hound for acute senses to get better positioning.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I think giving Tau an amazing melee unit is fine, as long as it's over costed. As in they take a top tier melee unit and port it into Tau but tax it like 5pts+ per model, such that you can still take it but you're paying more for it by not taking allies. This could be a fine role for Vespid or something like Tau Blademasters who were trained by that one Ethereal with the super glaive thing, where they can be as good as Necron Wraiths but cost like 5pts extra but can't reanimate.

Really that's a good way to balance armies, let everyone do everything, but then make certain things cheaper and certain things more expensive than the middle ground cost, that way you're encouraged, but not required to play in that style and have more control over how the army functions. Trying to limit access to it completely just leaves situations where the army can't function in certain modes completely.

To touch on this, ive always imagined samurai drones with power weapons or something(ap4 ion blades?), just something that has always just been in my wishlist for Tau, Melee vespids might fill that void also though.

 Wolfnid420 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
I think giving Tau an amazing melee unit is fine, as long as it's over costed. As in they take a top tier melee unit and port it into Tau but tax it like 5pts+ per model, such that you can still take it but you're paying more for it by not taking allies. This could be a fine role for Vespid or something like Tau Blademasters who were trained by that one Ethereal with the super glaive thing, where they can be as good as Necron Wraiths but cost like 5pts extra but can't reanimate.

Really that's a good way to balance armies, let everyone do everything, but then make certain things cheaper and certain things more expensive than the middle ground cost, that way you're encouraged, but not required to play in that style and have more control over how the army functions. Trying to limit access to it completely just leaves situations where the army can't function in certain modes completely.

To touch on this, ive always imagined samurai drones with power weapons or something(ap4 ion blades?), just something that has always just been in my wishlist for Tau, Melee vespids might fill that void also though.

Back when people were making wishlists for the codex, one of my ideas was "Suicide Drones", which were basically work drones that were used for clear cutting forests and such, re-purposed to combat. The idea wasn't that they were particularly good in combat normally, as they'd have rather basic close combat profiles, but each time one was killed it would be rigged to explode in a shrapnel blast of chainsaw bits and more. I mean we know the Tau use fail safe detonators so an augmented form of a flechette dispenser wouldn't be out of the question, especially on harvesting worlds where the Earth Caste had to rig up defense systems, using drones, on the go while they waited for the Fire Caste to arrive.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I think giving Tau an amazing melee unit is fine, as long as it's over costed. As in they take a top tier melee unit and port it into Tau but tax it like 5pts+ per model, such that you can still take it but you're paying more for it by not taking allies. This could be a fine role for Vespid or something like Tau Blademasters who were trained by that one Ethereal with the super glaive thing, where they can be as good as Necron Wraiths but cost like 5pts extra but can't reanimate.

Really that's a good way to balance armies, let everyone do everything, but then make certain things cheaper and certain things more expensive than the middle ground cost, that way you're encouraged, but not required to play in that style and have more control over how the army functions. Trying to limit access to it completely just leaves situations where the army can't function in certain modes completely.

=================


On an unrelated note, has anyone tried large Kroot Squads with Sniper Rounds lately? I remember seeing some people doing that during the mid period of 6th ed Tau with a lot of success but haven't seen it since.

I mean even with minimum squads in the Hunter Contingent that's 30 Sniper shots at 24" range, on models that have infiltrate, for only 198 points. You can even throw in a Hound for acute senses to get better positioning.

I dont think overcharging for a good melee unit would be fair or proper. Instead, the player would have an opportunity cost - if steath teams, vespid, strike teams, kroot, and breachers teams are all troops, the player would give up the invuln of the breachers, the kroot hordes and ammo, the strike shot count, and the stealth team stealth and infiltration. Vespid are garbage fast attack but good troops.

What I've seen a lot of is models that don't really want to be in melee (but maybe don't fall over like a wet paper towel if they do happen to get there) and work well at close range. I like that kind of tradeoff, as it forces you to move tactically and gives meaningful balancing levers.

 McNinja wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
I think giving Tau an amazing melee unit is fine, as long as it's over costed. As in they take a top tier melee unit and port it into Tau but tax it like 5pts+ per model, such that you can still take it but you're paying more for it by not taking allies. This could be a fine role for Vespid or something like Tau Blademasters who were trained by that one Ethereal with the super glaive thing, where they can be as good as Necron Wraiths but cost like 5pts extra but can't reanimate.

Really that's a good way to balance armies, let everyone do everything, but then make certain things cheaper and certain things more expensive than the middle ground cost, that way you're encouraged, but not required to play in that style and have more control over how the army functions. Trying to limit access to it completely just leaves situations where the army can't function in certain modes completely.

=================


On an unrelated note, has anyone tried large Kroot Squads with Sniper Rounds lately? I remember seeing some people doing that during the mid period of 6th ed Tau with a lot of success but haven't seen it since.

I mean even with minimum squads in the Hunter Contingent that's 30 Sniper shots at 24" range, on models that have infiltrate, for only 198 points. You can even throw in a Hound for acute senses to get better positioning.

I dont think overcharging for a good melee unit would be fair or proper. Instead, the player would have an opportunity cost - if steath teams, vespid, strike teams, kroot, and breachers teams are all troops, the player would give up the invuln of the breachers, the kroot hordes and ammo, the strike shot count, and the stealth team stealth and infiltration. Vespid are garbage fast attack but good troops.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying as it seems you merged two different topics into one. What I was saying was that one way to make things more balanced is to give every army every tool, but then scale cost for tools in each army so that it it their theme, making it easier for armies to build "take all comers" lists without allies, but they'd be giving up a little points to fill holes in their list when it came to things their not adept at. The simple version of this is Magic: The Gathering, where Red is the king of direct damage, so with one Red mana you can do 2 (3 in extreme cases) damage to a target, but on the other hand all other colours have access do direct damage, but it costs 2 mana of any colour to do 2 damage. You're basically paying a tax to do something you're not supposed to normally do in that army, but it means everyone can have all the tools.

As for the other topic, I'm for moving Vespids and Stealthsuits without changes to troops, maybe even moving Vespids to troops and giving them a very slight point decrease. It would give Tau a lot of options in list building as there's an argument to be made for bringing any of those as troops, with each being best based on the scenario. It's only when you have to bring those in addition to troops that the points become tight.

So i just had a Coldstar commander severely piss off an IG player lol. Flew behind him and peppered the rear ends of two leman russ tanks to death. Oh that was so satisfying rofl.

He then promptly did a faceplant because the 1 wound i didnt save forced me to the ground and i failed my 4++. Oh well he took out 2 tanks rofl

So i just had a Coldstar commander severely piss off an IG player lol. Flew behind him and peppered the rear ends of two leman russ tanks to death. Oh that was so satisfying rofl.

I want the Coldstar to be good. I really do. I just don't see it as anything more than a novelty, though. There are lots of better, cheaper options to get that sort of firepower.

MilkmanAl wrote:

So i just had a Coldstar commander severely piss off an IG player lol. Flew behind him and peppered the rear ends of two leman russ tanks to death. Oh that was so satisfying rofl.

I want the Coldstar to be good. I really do. I just don't see it as anything more than a novelty, though. There are lots of better, cheaper options to get that sort of firepower.

I know it's not exactly the best source for data points, but the Mini Wargaming guys did do some battle reports where they used what the believed were competitive lists and the Tau player did use the Coldstar to some reasonable effect. (One of the Battle Reports with Eldar vs. Tau, multiple Wraith Knights and the like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPbKjf5Evs )

I think the fact that it's not that good is something that makes it that much more likely to survive and get shots off on random things, since it's kind of a pain to kill it as is, and there are larger priority targets with much better fire power, so it's basically a mosquito people are more likely to ignore while focusing on things like Broadsides or Stormsurges. That doesn't mean it's exactly great, but at least it's playable in the sense that it can be a squad on its own, that will generally get some value.

Edit: Realistically you're not paying that much for the flying buff, since if you do the math as 1.5 twin linked Burst Cannons and 1 missile pod, the flight upgrade only costs 22 points, which is a little pricey but not as bad as viewing it as 60 points. You're also gaining 2.5 weapons on the model, as opposed to 2, and you can even argue it's 4 weapons because it's a Twin Linked Burst Cannon that functions as one and a half normal burst cannons. Which really just forces you to ask the question if your list wants that kind of weapon load out on a model like that, which could be the case, but it's not something you'd slot into your list normally, since it's somewhat redundant.

 Tinkrr wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

So i just had a Coldstar commander severely piss off an IG player lol. Flew behind him and peppered the rear ends of two leman russ tanks to death. Oh that was so satisfying rofl.

I want the Coldstar to be good. I really do. I just don't see it as anything more than a novelty, though. There are lots of better, cheaper options to get that sort of firepower.

I know it's not exactly the best source for data points, but the Mini Wargaming guys did do some battle reports where they used what the believed were competitive lists and the Tau player did use the Coldstar to some reasonable effect. (One of the Battle Reports with Eldar vs. Tau, multiple Wraith Knights and the like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPbKjf5Evs )

I think the fact that it's not that good is something that makes it that much more likely to survive and get shots off on random things, since it's kind of a pain to kill it as is, and there are larger priority targets with much better fire power, so it's basically a mosquito people are more likely to ignore while focusing on things like Broadsides or Stormsurges. That doesn't mean it's exactly great, but at least it's playable in the sense that it can be a squad on its own, that will generally get some value.

Edit: Realistically you're not paying that much for the flying buff, since if you do the math as 1.5 twin linked Burst Cannons and 1 missile pod, the flight upgrade only costs 22 points, which is a little pricey but not as bad as viewing it as 60 points. You're also gaining 2.5 weapons on the model, as opposed to 2, and you can even argue it's 4 weapons because it's a Twin Linked Burst Cannon that functions as one and a half normal burst cannons. Which really just forces you to ask the question if your list wants that kind of weapon load out on a model like that, which could be the case, but it's not something you'd slot into your list normally, since it's somewhat redundant.

There are 3 main problems with Coldstar:
T4 makes him such a liability as a flier. One unsaved wound can cause an insta kill from falling.
He cannot take the Iridium armor (T5, 2+ save) which is almost a must.
Having both a Burst Cannon and Missile Pods are not the most ideal combination of weapons.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

So i just had a Coldstar commander severely piss off an IG player lol. Flew behind him and peppered the rear ends of two leman russ tanks to death. Oh that was so satisfying rofl.

I want the Coldstar to be good. I really do. I just don't see it as anything more than a novelty, though. There are lots of better, cheaper options to get that sort of firepower.

I know it's not exactly the best source for data points, but the Mini Wargaming guys did do some battle reports where they used what the believed were competitive lists and the Tau player did use the Coldstar to some reasonable effect. (One of the Battle Reports with Eldar vs. Tau, multiple Wraith Knights and the like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPbKjf5Evs )

I think the fact that it's not that good is something that makes it that much more likely to survive and get shots off on random things, since it's kind of a pain to kill it as is, and there are larger priority targets with much better fire power, so it's basically a mosquito people are more likely to ignore while focusing on things like Broadsides or Stormsurges. That doesn't mean it's exactly great, but at least it's playable in the sense that it can be a squad on its own, that will generally get some value.

Edit: Realistically you're not paying that much for the flying buff, since if you do the math as 1.5 twin linked Burst Cannons and 1 missile pod, the flight upgrade only costs 22 points, which is a little pricey but not as bad as viewing it as 60 points. You're also gaining 2.5 weapons on the model, as opposed to 2, and you can even argue it's 4 weapons because it's a Twin Linked Burst Cannon that functions as one and a half normal burst cannons. Which really just forces you to ask the question if your list wants that kind of weapon load out on a model like that, which could be the case, but it's not something you'd slot into your list normally, since it's somewhat redundant.

There are 3 main problems with Coldstar:
T4 makes him such a liability as a flier. One unsaved wound can cause an insta kill from falling.
He cannot take the Iridium armor (T5, 2+ save) which is almost a must.
Having both a Burst Cannon and Missile Pods are not the most ideal combination of weapons.

Yes, yes, and yes.

He's not a main feature of an army, and I don't want to give the impression that I think it's a good power unit, I just think there are situations where you can field one and accomplish something, but it's definitely a model that's intended to be another unit in your army instead of the star. I'm just saying if you really want that kind of Burst Cannon heavy load out on a flying model then the Coldstar is a reasonable annoyance for the opponent since they'll usually sink more fire power into it than most other things, or simply ignore it as most people should.

 Tinkrr wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

So i just had a Coldstar commander severely piss off an IG player lol. Flew behind him and peppered the rear ends of two leman russ tanks to death. Oh that was so satisfying rofl.

I want the Coldstar to be good. I really do. I just don't see it as anything more than a novelty, though. There are lots of better, cheaper options to get that sort of firepower.

I know it's not exactly the best source for data points, but the Mini Wargaming guys did do some battle reports where they used what the believed were competitive lists and the Tau player did use the Coldstar to some reasonable effect. (One of the Battle Reports with Eldar vs. Tau, multiple Wraith Knights and the like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPbKjf5Evs )

I think the fact that it's not that good is something that makes it that much more likely to survive and get shots off on random things, since it's kind of a pain to kill it as is, and there are larger priority targets with much better fire power, so it's basically a mosquito people are more likely to ignore while focusing on things like Broadsides or Stormsurges. That doesn't mean it's exactly great, but at least it's playable in the sense that it can be a squad on its own, that will generally get some value.

Edit: Realistically you're not paying that much for the flying buff, since if you do the math as 1.5 twin linked Burst Cannons and 1 missile pod, the flight upgrade only costs 22 points, which is a little pricey but not as bad as viewing it as 60 points. You're also gaining 2.5 weapons on the model, as opposed to 2, and you can even argue it's 4 weapons because it's a Twin Linked Burst Cannon that functions as one and a half normal burst cannons. Which really just forces you to ask the question if your list wants that kind of weapon load out on a model like that, which could be the case, but it's not something you'd slot into your list normally, since it's somewhat redundant.

There are 3 main problems with Coldstar:
T4 makes him such a liability as a flier. One unsaved wound can cause an insta kill from falling.
He cannot take the Iridium armor (T5, 2+ save) which is almost a must.
Having both a Burst Cannon and Missile Pods are not the most ideal combination of weapons.

Yes, yes, and yes.

He's not a main feature of an army, and I don't want to give the impression that I think it's a good power unit, I just think there are situations where you can field one and accomplish something, but it's definitely a model that's intended to be another unit in your army instead of the star. I'm just saying if you really want that kind of Burst Cannon heavy load out on a flying model then the Coldstar is a reasonable annoyance for the opponent since they'll usually sink more fire power into it than most other things, or simply ignore it as most people should.

Agreed! Coldstar is something that I think would be a lot of fun to play around with and try in some friendly games, but I wouldn't use him if I was really trying to win.

notredameguy10 wrote:


Agreed! Coldstar is something that I think would be a lot of fun to play around with and try in some friendly games, but I wouldn't use him if I was really trying to win.

I can see him being in a high end competitive list, but as a very niche choice that isn't commonly played. It's just one of those units that if you think your list needs that specific niche filled, you bring it, but otherwise it's not really worthwhile, which isn't necessarily a bad design for what's basically a piece of wargear.

Hes nothing more than a gimick. Hes fun as hell to use and hes not bad by any means in a friendly game, but yeah once you go competitive leave him at home.

I can understand not letting him have full weapon access, but i dont like the MP tacked on there. The burst actually does a lot of damage since all 6 shots pretty much always hit (BS5 TL...they aint missing) i would have much prefered either a second Burst or an Airburster over the MP.
If he could exchange his weapons, everyone would use him and put dual fusions on him (or plasmas) and immediately hunt rear armor. He would devour vehicles of almost any stature and pose a HUGE threat to fliers.

I can also understand not giving him Iridium because a 2+ FMC is a bit overkill to me, but i wish they gave him a rule to either ignore grounding tests entirely due to his squishy nature on the ground, or make it S7 so it cant splat him.

Besides, i like my kitbash Coldstar commander. I made him a year ago out of a crisis suit + broadside legs + various bits and forgot about him. He fits the Coldstar image so i gave him the proper guns and based him.

I'm just saying, you can't view the Coldstar as a commander, you just have to treat it as a different Razorshark that's generally better. It's a completely different concept than a Commander, which is what I think makes most people struggle with the unit in play, as it's filling a completely different role than a Commander does.



I like your model, it looks unique.

Oh yeah, my friend made the mistake of thinking he was my Warlord. Why i dont understand lol that would be stupid to make him the warlord. Too easy to gimp for Slay the Warlord and none of the traits really help him all that much. He later mentioned that he would have ignored that thing if he didnt think it was the Warlord for 3 turns lol.

I brought him in the Retaliation Cadre, deepstriking the whole mess. Btw, dont deepstrike a full broadside squad. That almost ended badly because i totally misjudged their footprint. They didnt mishap but i was forced to land either in the corner of the table or right dab smack in the middle of 2 IG guardsmen units, a BA dreadnaught, a still full strength Devastators squad, and only a turn away from his termies' assault range.
They didnt last long rofl. But they still devoured that dread's rear armor and ate most of the termies before being charged.

I really want Coldstar to be be good and the MWG dude does perform decently.

He gives you a decent sky fire option if you have flyer enemies regularly. Or competitively, as an option perhaps.

Mhm, I think the more people play the Coldstar, and the more they realise it should never be a warlord but rather a better pseud-Razorshark, your opponents will start ignoring it more, which will let it do its thing a lot better. It's a new flashy unit right now, so people will focus a lot on it, but over time it'll settle as just another unit in the army, and that's when it shines, when it's left alone because it's too much of an annoyance to deal with, but still peppers things with basically 6 auto hit Burst Cannon shots each turn.


I really like the Retaliation Cadre, I think it's honestly better than the Hunter Contingent as a whole, simply because everything in it you want anyway and the ability to assure a deep strike turn two is amazing.

They're Broadsides, I've never really seen them last all that long, especially when they're unable to move without snap shotting, which the Retaliation Cadre solves pretty well D:

My broadsides usually dont die without something deepstriking/droppoding behind them or im already losing the game anyway. The few guns that threaten them only take out a random drone here and there and never have the rate of fire to kill them in a reasonable time.
Come to think of it, i cant remember the last time they died. Drones die all the time, but the broadsides usually stick around and i usually have the lascannons removed by the time the broadsides are vulnerable to them.

Though i was glad about one thing in that game. My friend is finally starting to realize that if he cant kill something quickly to ignore it. He had a crazy itch to fire his leman russ at my Riptide (whichever one it is that has the S8 Armorbane shot) since i had no vehicles outside Piranhas that were out of sight to it. But he always decided to explode a crisis suit (and usually did) instead, because it would take him 3 turns minimum to kill the Riptide between it and his two random marines with plasmas, assuming i didnt pass something on a 5++ or FNP.

Speaking of which, ive never had a Riptide be so useless. I failed 3 of 4 nova charges, though i FNP'd two of them. I Gets Hot! two of my damn Ion blasts and completely wiffed a third. I had it charge his Leman Russ that was sitting next to an objective and i rolled quad 1s when punching its rear armor. I was baffled lol

Im tempted to buy a Hazard Suit with Phased Ion Blasters since im already going to be placing an order for the Leviathan Dreadnaught to build/paint for said friend as a birthday gift. Its a heavy for BA so he can use it and its pretty good/not CRAZY expensive. Hazard suits arent amazing but i see them as another fun model to mess with (if they were 3 wounds or 20pts cheaper i'd say they'd be amazing)
Though now that i look at it, i may get R'alai instead. Somehow i doubt a solo Hazard suit would do anything but R'alai looks better than i thought. I compared him to a regular commander with shields/iridium for T5 and hes pretty much the exact same price, but lacks the fancy gun (i just discounted the drones by 24pts since theyre literally markerdrones that hes forced to take. They arent even networked which is odd)

The problem with r'alai is that his drones are t3... so try to get one killed quick.

T4 not T3, and yea that kinda bites since majority lower than his. He still cant be sporked by S8 though.

Let the drones die first so you can be free of them. R'alai is a big boy (Ld 10).