For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.

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**BoomWolf**

Given that the hunter contingent is the "deathstars is deathtrap" detachment with combined fire (even against invis, you can force enough markers to get your entire army BS3,and twin link it with buffmander against a single target) I'd say they are less of a worry.

And dawn blade is pretty much "punish the alpha".

**Fruzzle**

BoomWolf wrote:
Given that the hunter contingent is the "deathstars is deathtrap" detachment with combined fire (even against invis, you can force enough markers to get your entire army BS3,and twin link it with buffmander against a single target) I'd say they are less of a worry.

And dawn blade is pretty much "punish the alpha".

Not saying I disagree with you but where are the markers coming from? And what would be effective firepower VS Chaptermaster, bike shield, fnp? Or Draigo?
Could you maybe post a list? I'd rather not use allies if I can get away with it. The Cux might be a crutch but omg was it effective!

**changemod**

Dawn Blade looks fun, though it's going to be tricky to have much room left after taking a Retribution Cadre core if I want to squeeze the majority of my stealth units into the list- Which I generally will, given more than half the Tau I own are stealth suits and ghostkeels.

Don't think I even -have- 2000 points of non-stealth stuff, in fact.

**DirtyDeeds**

Vector Strike wrote:
Nilok wrote:Assuming O'vesa retains the IC rule, you can take a min Ethereal Council and slap O'vesa on to make it T6.

No, it would remain at T3. Majority Toughness. Ethereal Council is 3-7, not 1-7.

And O'Vesa comes with two Shielded Missile Drones, majority T6 ftw.

**Vector Strike**

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:
Nilok wrote:Assuming O'vesa retains the IC rule, you can take a min Ethereal Council and slap O'vesa on to make it T6.

No, it would remain at T3. Majority Toughness. Ethereal Council is 3-7, not 1-7.

And O'Vesa comes with two Shielded Missile Drones, majority T6 ftw.

Gah, forgot that! Then yes, it's a way to make the Ethereal Council at least survivable.

The problem is... you need the other 7 fellas.

**notredameguy10**

Fruzzle wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:
Nilok wrote:Assuming O'vesa retains the IC rule, you can take a min Ethereal Council and slap O'vesa on to make it T6.

Fruzzle wrote:CounterStrike Cadre
1 Patherfinder, 3x strike/breach.
Devilfish get Fast on the first turn, So so, not that interesting but its a nice foundation for 3 teams + etheral fish of fury attack
Re-roll within 3'' of an objectives. This is really nice for the pathfinders (re-roll markelights baby) and situational for the rest.
It's a decent formation but all things can be better taken elsewhere and markerlight (and pathfinders) are better taken from different formations.

I really like this with Breachers. 10 of them firing at 5" at a Tervigon will kill it even with FnP (without MLs!), if my calculations are correct.
Or to clean Deep Strikers from your zone.

Fruzzle wrote:Ranged Support Cadre
3x Pathfinder
3x Broadside team
Broadsides can use a markerlight from these pathfinders as 2 markerlight tokens.
Pathfinders get shrouded if not moving.
So this is one place where you're better of taking the pathfinders from. Shrouded is a huge buff. (park them in terrain or behind adl for 2+ cover save! suddenly they're survivable!)
Broadsides using tokens as 2... its good. even 3x4 man pathfinder squads generate effectively 12 markerlight tokens for the broadsides. The downside? Other units often benefit more from tokens than broadsides being already twin linked and (usually) only AP4, ignore cover is of limited benefit. It's still a pretty decent firebase and probably the real succesor to the old FBSC. You can't go wrong but.... not super amazing either.

You forgot the Infiltrate Pathfinders get from this. Yep, best place to use them in a Dawn Blade Detachment. And I like accurate shots, so I'd use those many MLs for BS5 and Ignores Cover

Drones from vehicles don't give KPs. And the drones wouldn't start that far - you can only disembark if you move 6", not combat speed. With Thrust they could go further, of course.

You did forget that, once per game, they can fire their main weapon 2x and the secondary 4x (if you did choose to Ripple Fire at the start of the turn).

Hehe I forgot those! The infiltrate makes that formation even better, and I also forgot the across the table overwatch! It is really an excellent formation which gets a little overshadowed by the Piranaha's. . And about the disembark. Yeah that Piranaha formation is going to be excellent. The beauty is your enemy can't even stop your farm unless he gets first turn.
The only weakeness? after turn 3/4 you're better of attacking I'm sure because the drones are going to be to slow to impact the game because of the distance they can travel.
But that's also fine! Spawn drones for 3 turns than do what piranaha's do! Score linebreaker, block movement and hose infantry. (And whoops sorry I melta's your tank (But probably drop pod).

Fruzzle wrote:
My first impression of the new Mont'ka formations:*Snip*
I feel currently Tau need a Culexus assassin to really compete in tournaments. And (s)he/it should be in a drop pod.

My reasoning is that if we can shoot it and kill it we have a chance to win any game. But there are things we can't kill because of Psychic powers.
My list of things i"m scared of:
-(jetbike) Seer Council
-Screamers with 2++
-Invisible marine deadstar on bikes.
-Cent Star

How about forcing through markerlights? Seems a bit more viable to mass them up now? Maybe?

Well against seer council without invis it's okay but with invis... even if you get 3/4 markerlights on them you still can't fire blast weapons (Ion Accelartor, pulse driver)
Against 2++ screamers... I really doesn't matter how much firepower you have. 1/36 WOUNDS causes a wound. 9 screamers have 18 wounds. If its firewarriors you need...
648 wound caused to kill a unit. If str 8 and above its half that nr. That's 1296 hits, The number might as well be infinite. Basically you can't (and shouldn't even try to) touch the unit as long as the buffs are up. (Interestingly, the stormsurge can tie it in combat pretty well, and with some lucky 6's, there are worse things you can do.

Cent star, bike star, same as seer council. Even if you get the markerlights we still can't fire our effective weapons (Ion accelerators and pulse drivers). (But the cent star is the most kill-able of them all, but also the most killy. I've sometimes won, sometimes lost vs them, always ended up ignoring as best as I can. But.... played with culexus pod once. Suddenly ridiculously easy.

Depends on the rules locally where you play. If any of the places near you uses ITC rules, invisibility is already nerfed. (Blasts/templates can hit it, among other things)

**MechaBeast**

Is it possible for the Tau to become a drone factory now with the Piranha formation?

Piranha set loose the drones and maybe some seekers, retreat , comeback from reserves, repeat.

That's a ;lot of tarpit though I'm not sure how good it is yet for the points

**Vineheart01**

They wouldnt be able to use seekers the same turn they leave the board because its the movement phase when they leave. However dont underestimate drone masses, they hurt.

3 units of 5 piranhas with no seekers is 600pts + 40pts for the boss one. Sound pricy, but every single turn they will spawn 3 units of 10 and a unit of 2 gun drones. Add in a couple commanders with DC and just jump to a stronger unit when its numbers get low. I do this with a single piranha squad and it does a ton of damage, imagine 3 of them let alone 3 of them each turn. By turn 3, one could assume 2 units of drones have died completely possibly 3 depending on what weapons/luck youre facing. You now have 6-7 units of 10 drones and 3 pairs of drones.

Heck, instead of a commander you could get the Drone Network formation. Now every single gun drone is BS3, even out of the formation. Adds a tax of ~224-672 depending on how many drones you want in the 4 units, but all you gotta do is keep 2 minimal squads hiding behind cover all game and you get the BS3 across the board.

Im never going to do it though because that is an asinine amount of drones to field lol. You're looking at around 140 drones to attempt this, and you might even break that number if your opponent cant mass murder them reliably.

**MechaBeast**

But cant they launch the seekers on the turn 1, leave turn 2, come back later, repeat. If one of the drone formations units is all markers, group em with a drone controller, you can mark the hell out of everyone (split fire) and rain down seekers all day.

Not to mention that all of these "free" drones do not surrender VPs

**Vineheart01**

Thats the beauty of the piranha drone squads to begin with. Which is why i do it even without the formation lol.

10 gun drones is deadly enough to require attention because they will hurt you if you dont. But they are 100% a waste of time objectively and are tough enough to either take a big gun or a good chunk of your shooting to remove. '

I'd say leave 1 squad of piranhas behind to fire seekers while the rest keep spawning drones. If they fire seekers then its 3 turns to fire again (one to fire, two to leave, three to return and fire again). The drone mass would be deadlier but i could see 10 seekers being a threat too - even without markerlights.

**Razerous**

How difficult is it to wipe the entire squad from the board, to prevent respawning shenanigans?

I'm trying to justify the cost/benefits of a Drone Network formation alongside a Hunter Contingent, the drones buff the other drones (and themselves ofc), provide marker lights that the rest of the army can use with Coordinated fire. Hmm.. I ponder.

BS3+ missile drones are tempting. Native bonuses are just awesome.

**Vineheart01**

Thats the thing. You cannot wipe them because they are never on the board except turn 1 which they are hiding behind terrain/sitting REALLY far away.

Piranhas doing the drone factory tactic will never ever be shot at. Its not a movement action to leave the board, its simply "if within 6" of a board edge at the end of the movement phase" so they can literally arrive, dump drones, and leave in the same phase. Even if you manage to pop a couple the first turn if the Tau player didnt go first, you wouldnt be able to remove all of them at that distance. Or even a majority of them.

The drone network can be really cheap to get the effect though. 224pts is the bare minimum price, and only 2 of the units need to be alive to get the board-wide bonus. Hide them in a building somewhere for eternity and let the other to go do things. I'd say its very worth it if youre already fielding several drones.

**Razerous**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats the thing. You cannot wipe them because they are never on the board except turn 1 which they are hiding behind terrain/sitting REALLY far away.

Piranhas doing the drone factory tactic will never ever be shot at. Its not a movement action to leave the board, its simply "if within 6" of a board edge at the end of the movement phase" so they can literally arrive, dump drones, and leave in the same phase. Even if you manage to pop a couple the first turn if the Tau player didnt go first, you wouldnt be able to remove all of them at that distance. Or even a majority of them..

Interceptor.

**Tinkrr**

Don't forget, your drone formation gets Jink, amongst we other things and is better than Pathfinders thanks to the +1 BS, +1 T, Relentless, JSJ, Jink Save, and more.

Heck, they give you a ton of Markers for Seekers and all you really need is one squad of Piranha as dedicated Seekers while the others produce drones.

**Vineheart01**

Oh i just thought about something funny with the drone net.

They have interceptor, which largely wouldnt mean squat. However.....markerlights with interceptor anyone?

*evil laugh as he places a riptide piplate on a termie blob at BS5 w/ Ignore Cover*

Also apparently theres a huuuuge rule loophole in the piranha formation. "The unit returns at full strength" - RAI i would imagine they ignore any damage results and restore HP, but RAW that literally means any DEAD PIRANHAS as long as one in the unit was able to get off the board come back as well.
Theres no way that was intended lol thats just beyond broken. They literally cannot die, and consistently spawn free drones.

**Tinkrr**

The Drone Network is just insane to be honest, I'll probably be taking it in almost any list.

I'm guessing the ITC will do something like the Piranha formation only being able to do it once or twice in a game, since otherwise it's just utterly busted. Even being able to do it all of one time is rather huge since even with four minimum squads that's 160pts that generates 96pts for free, assuming you cost the drones at 12pts each, and they don't have Seekers.

**Razerous**

Tinkrr wrote:
The Drone Network is just insane to be honest, I'll probably be taking it in almost any list.

I'm guessing the ITC will do something like the Piranha formation only being able to do it once or twice in a game, since otherwise it's just utterly busted. Even being able to do it all of one time is rather huge since even with four minimum squads that's 160pts that generates 96pts for free, assuming you cost the drones at 12pts each, and they don't have Seekers.

Compare it against the facts. Consider alternatives? How does it stack up against scarab farms or daemon summoning.

Do either get banned or restricted heavily? Is it a widely playable strategy - I don't see many people fielding 20-30 drones easily.

As for the Drone Network, I'm struggling to fit it into a Hunter Cont. with 2 riptides, Ghostkeel, stormsurge + support 1500pt army (as in I can't). So I need to consider if it will good enough to remove whole units (doubtful) or perhaps field those units in the form of a CAD but loose the coordinated firepower rule. Like I said, fielding larger armies is too easy.

**Tinkrr**

Razerous wrote:
Tinkrr wrote:
The Drone Network is just insane to be honest, I'll probably be taking it in almost any list.

I'm guessing the ITC will do something like the Piranha formation only being able to do it once or twice in a game, since otherwise it's just utterly busted. Even being able to do it all of one time is rather huge since even with four minimum squads that's 160pts that generates 96pts for free, assuming you cost the drones at 12pts each, and they don't have Seekers.
Compare it against the facts. Consider alternatives? How does it stack up against scarab farms or daemon summoning.

Do either get banned or restricted heavily? Is it a widely playable strategy - I don't see many people fielding 20-30 drones easily.

As for the Drone Network, I'm struggling to fit it into a Hunter Cont. with 2 riptides, Ghostkeel, stormsurge + support 1500pt army (as in I can't). So I need to consider if it will good enough to remove whole units (doubtful) or perhaps field those units in the form of a CAD but loose the coordinated firepower rule. Like I said, fielding larger armies is too easy.

With max squads it's 384 points of free drones a turn, assuming their 12 points, and not 14 points which is 448, I'd say that's a lot more free stuff per turn than Scarabs or Deamons. That's not counting free Seeker shenanigans either. Don't forget those drones are Jet Pack units, that pin, and all have BS3 with the Network in your army.

Don't we all have like a million drones laying around? Each box of Crisis Suits comes with like five, each Fire Warrior box has two, and the Piranhas start with two drones each that can deploy. With drones dying constantly you can easily keep those points cranking out, and let one unit be a Seeker unit that refreshes drones less often for more Seekers.

What are you Markerlight sources currently?

Edit: Also, how do you play the Hunter Contingent shared fire? Is it just Markerlight Sharing and +1BS or like all rules?

**Vineheart01**

Actually i dont have that many drones lol. Extra anyway, i bring drones commonly spread out around my army.

I could probably dump drones twice, then im out of models lol. Theres also the bit about most of them being busted up since they just sat around for years lol

**casvalremdeikun**

So...hypothetically, I am looking at what sort of battle suit army could I build for about 1850-2000 pts? I have an idea for a Zeon army. I like the looks of the Retaliation Cadre with the FSE detachment. One caveat is I want to use Farsight.

Basically, can anyone help me build a shopping list?

**Vineheart01**

Kinda hard to figure that out until we get our hands on the new book instead of just formation leaks. The actual codex doesnt allow Farsight in any formation, so you'd have to take a minimal CAD to use him which would force some firewarrior squads.

Ghostkeels i think would be more of "i want the new toy" for you if you want the Farsight route, since he doesnt have access to the Optimized Stealth Cadre and theyre only ~30pts cheaper than a Riptide once you give them stims and not as deadly on their own. However you definitely want a ton of crisis suits lol. A crisis suit with 2 15pt guns and shields is 77pts, or 57pts with a 5pt support item instead of shields so work with that to figure out how many you will want/need. Riptides are 190-225 depending on if you give them stims or not, ghosts not far behind.

Im not one for solid suit lists though, so im not sure what nonsuits stuff you'd have to bring no matter what. I tend to bring more firewarrior/armor based tactics with my suits being the clutch players not the main force.

**casvalremdeikun**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Kinda hard to figure that out until we get our hands on the new book instead of just formation leaks. The actual codex doesnt allow Farsight in any formation, so you'd have to take a minimal CAD to use him which would force some firewarrior squads.

Ghostkeels i think would be more of "i want the new toy" for you if you want the Farsight route, since he doesnt have access to the Optimized Stealth Cadre and theyre only ~30pts cheaper than a Riptide once you give them stims and not as deadly on their own. However you definitely want a ton of crisis suits lol. A crisis suit with 2 15pt guns and shields is 77pts, or 57pts with a 5pt support item instead of shields so work with that to figure out how many you will want/need. Riptides are 190-225 depending on if you give them stims or not, ghosts not far behind.

Im not one for solid suit lists though, so im not sure what nonsuits stuff you'd have to bring no matter what. I tend to bring more firewarrior/armor based tactics with my suits being the clutch players not the main force.

I like the appearance of the Ghostkeel, but they really don't factor into the army I am dreaming of. And since I don't own any Tau in the first place, EVERYTHING is a new toy to me

. This would be for months down the road.

**gmaleron**

After glancing over the FormationsI think I found an effective way to utilize the "Counterstrike Cadre's" Pathfinder and Devilfish tax.

-Take a bare minimum Pathfinders squad and give them a Recon Drone. This effectively gives their Devilfish a Homing Beacon.

-Have them gun it up the table with the other three Devilfish carrying Breachers or Strikers. Maneuver their Devilfish to get it into the optimum position for Deep Strikers.

-Take the Retaliation Cadre and use the Pathfinders Devilfish with its six inch no scatter bubble measured from its hull.

This combined with your three squads of Fire Warriors or Breachers disembarking from their Devilfish gives you a very nasty turn two alpha strike.

**bleak**

gmaleron wrote:
After glancing over the FormationsI think I found an effective way to utilize the "Counterstrike Cadre's" Pathfinder and Devilfish tax.

-Take a bare minimum Pathfinders squad and give them a Recon Drone. This effectively gives their Devilfish a Homing Beacon.

-Have them gun it up the table with the other three Devilfish carrying Breachers or Strikers. Maneuver their Devilfish to get it into the optimum position for Deep Strikers.

-Take the Retaliation Cadre and use the Pathfinders Devilfish with its six inch no scatter bubble measured from its hull.

This combined with your three squads of Fire Warriors or Breachers disembarking from their Devilfish gives you a very nasty turn two alpha strike.

If its second turn, shouldn't it be called Beta strike?

**gmaleron**

bleak wrote:
If its second turn, shouldn't it be called Beta strike?

Touche!!

Also looking through the new released Mont'Ka Formations I am actually now somewhat interested in the "Air Superiority Cadre". Granted I know almost everyone thinks that the Tau Fighters are garbage but looking at what they bring to the table:

-They get +1 BS when shooting at All kinds of Flyers, All kinds of Flying Monstrous Creatures, Skimmers & Jetbikes
-D3 free Markerlights onto any target on the battlefield
-Automatically come in from Reserve if any all kinds of Flyers, All kinds of Flying Monstrous Creatures, Skimmers & Jetbikes are on the table.

Taking that into account I really could see me picking up x3 of these bad boys and kitting them out with Nose Missile Pods giving me x6 S7 AP4 Shots (or x2 S7 AP4 shots and a single S8 AP4 Large Blast) and x2 Seeker Missiles each. Not to shabby, especially with the boosted BS against certain targets.

**Noctem**

Are Crisis loadouts pretty much the same as they were before? Either double Fusion /w Target Locks, double Plasma, or double Missile Pods /w Target Locks?

I plan on running suit heavy lists. Maybe 3 double Fusions, 3 double Plasmas, and 3 double Missile Pods? Should cover anything I'll need?

**chalkobob**

It should also be noted that the retaliation cadre is considered a core choice in the new detachment, allowing you to forego the need for the hunter cadre.

**Vector Strike**

Noctem wrote:
Are Crisis loadouts pretty much the same as they were before? Either double Fusion /w Target Locks, double Plasma, or double Missile Pods /w Target Locks?

I plan on running suit heavy lists. Maybe 3 double Fusions, 3 double Plasmas, and 3 double Missile Pods? Should cover anything I'll need?

3 double AFP for hordes. If you plan on DSing the MPs, maybe CIBs would be a better deal

**casvalremdeikun**

chalkobob wrote:
It should also be noted that the retaliation cadre is considered a core choice in the new detachment, allowing you to forego the need for the hunter cadre.

Yeah. And the fact there is a Retaliation Cadre boxed set coming out that is roughly 20% off sticker price is making my desire to get a Tau army going VERY hard to put down.

**gmaleron**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
chalkobob wrote:
It should also be noted that the retaliation cadre is considered a core choice in the new detachment, allowing you to forego the need for the hunter cadre.
Yeah. And the fact there is a Retaliation Cadre boxed set coming out that is roughly 20% off sticker price is making my desire to get a Tau army going VERY hard to put down.

Any confirmation or link about that? If that's the case then im going to have to start saving up!