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The rules of the formation does, among other things, that if any single unit of it gets destroyed, the entire ARMY enters automatically from reserves the coming turn, so yes, it's entirely possible.

Risky though, you might get tabled if careless.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The rules of the formation does, among other things, that if any single unit of it gets destroyed, the entire ARMY enters automatically from reserves the coming turn, so yes, it's entirely possible.

Risky though, you might get tabled if careless.

Well essentially you know prior to deployment whether or not you are going first turn or 2nd. Which would produce this logic:

if "going 2nd" and "do not try to steal" =>
deploy infiltration cadre aggressively
else =>
deploy as you would a normal game

In most situations I would hope for turn 2 with this style of play, giving up first blood I think would be worth a turn1 tau full reserve counter attack =D

 BoomWolf wrote:
The rules of the formation does, among other things, that if any single unit of it gets destroyed, the entire ARMY enters automatically from reserves the coming turn, so yes, it's entirely possible.

Risky though, you might get tabled if careless.

If you go second, that is impossible. Being tabled only triggers at the end of the game turn, allowing all of your reserves to enter before the end of the game turn.

Yes, but you won't necessarily go second. You might go first.

I will add a special weapon to Pathfinders if I'm close to my point limit and have run out of other reasonable upgrades on other units. My only problem with investing heavily in them is that I may realistically get one round of shooting with those weapons. Of course, my experience with this is pre SS and Ghostkeel so who knows...maybe Pathfinders get a lower target priority in the new meta?

 Jancoran wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Shifting gears a little, is taking Pathfinders for their heavy weapons a viable tactic? With markerlights being less important because of the bonus from the Hunter Contingent, might it be viable to take 4-man Pathfinder teams with three special weapons and use them a bit like Space Marine Devastators (only cheaper and squishier)?

This is how I play them.

Is it effective? Or do they usually just die horribly on the first turn? Seriously, I am curious. I would think they might make a fine distraction unit. Just put them in cover so they get a sorta decent save. They might be a unit that is too small to want to waste shots on but too deadly to ignore.

Well here again, i have an example of their excellent use:
Using Pathfinders as sledgehammers

As you will see, I never asked them to fire a single marker light.

You spent 467 points on 6 rail rifles and some spare s5 AP5 Fire, essentially. If you want mobile low AP firepower, Crisis Suits are just outright better. You can get 9 dual fusion and/or dual plasma suits for the same cost, and they're a lot harder to kill. 3 Ghostkeels would also be a far superior option for the points. Believe me, I love finding weird uses for under appreciated units, but heavy weapons on Pathfinders is just not smart.

Surely heavy weapons on pathfinders and crisis suits cannot be directly compared, as the former is on a scouting unit that (potentially) can outflank, which is the point...

Alcibiades wrote:
Surely heavy weapons on pathfinders and crisis suits cannot be directly compared, as the former is on a scouting unit that (potentially) can outflank, which is the point...

We'll play that game then... Crisis suits can DEEPSTRIKE, which puts them anywhere you want on the table. In addition, they have a better toughness, better armor save, better damage potential, and can actually move THEN jump in the assault phase. So yes, they can be directly compared because they perform better in every phase of the game than Pathfinders with heavy weapons.

I think the biggest issue with Pathfinders that run special weapons is that as Tau we just have infinite special weapons options. Even our base troops now have a missile turret if we so desire, but we've always had some nice Swiss army knives such as the Crisis Suits that could do anything.

The only way Pathfinders could compete with our other options, not just Crisis Suits, is if they were significantly cheaper in points for their special weapons, but as it stand they're at the same amount of points for the weapon itself, which makes it less of an option considering they also normally come with the potent option of a Markerlight that we're already taxed for.

There's a few ways to fix Pathfinders, and one simple way would be to cost them at 9points each (like any fire Warrior), and then offer them Markerlights at 2points a model, and Rail Rifles at no more than 10 points. That way they can still function as Pathfinders do now, or function as Fire Warriors with special weapons that fill a Fast Attack slot, and they have cheaper costs as a whole which means you can consider them over Suits more. They're not just better than Fire Warriors either, as they can't get that nice turret, they only come with Carbines base, and they take up fast attack options.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I think the biggest issue with Pathfinders that run special weapons is that as Tau we just have infinite special weapons options. Even our base troops now have a missile turret if we so desire, but we've always had some nice Swiss army knives such as the Crisis Suits that could do anything.

The only way Pathfinders could compete with our other options, not just Crisis Suits, is if they were significantly cheaper in points for their special weapons, but as it stand they're at the same amount of points for the weapon itself, which makes it less of an option considering they also normally come with the potent option of a Markerlight that we're already taxed for.

There's a few ways to fix Pathfinders, and one simple way would be to cost them at 9points each (like any fire Warrior), and then offer them Markerlights at 2points a model, and Rail Rifles at no more than 10 points. That way they can still function as Pathfinders do now, or function as Fire Warriors with special weapons that fill a Fast Attack slot, and they have cheaper costs as a whole which means you can consider them over Suits more. They're not just better than Fire Warriors either, as they can't get that nice turret, they only come with Carbines base, and they take up fast attack options.

I agree, I think that would a very reasonable adjustment and allow them to be more flexible. Hey! GW might sell more now that the use of markerlights has kinda dwindled with all the new formations.

MilkmanAl wrote:
You spent 467 points on 6 rail rifles and some spare s5 AP5 Fire, essentially. If you want mobile low AP firepower, Crisis Suits are just outright better. You can get 9 dual fusion and/or dual plasma suits for the same cost, and they're a lot harder to kill. 3 Ghostkeels would also be a far superior option for the points. Believe me, I love finding weird uses for under appreciated units, but heavy weapons on Pathfinders is just not smart.

Yet... the results are there. Outflanking is a lot safer way to get weapons on the board than deep striking. And if the idea is to get behind the enemy, Crisis teams can'tsafely do so as well.

Moreover, Crisis teams lose their firepower faster. Two wounds ot a Crisis team kills 1/3 of its special firepower for which you took the unit. Not so with Pathfinders. Their firepower will remain undiminished for a fair number of wounds.

Beyond that, the Haywire grenades in subsequent rounds are unsurpassed in killing any armor reliably. Even a meltagun doesnt give you that kind of certainty.

Finally, shutting them down in close combat isn't even remotely as likely. Their Drone coupled with their range bfore they shoot the closest model are at 15 inches or so. With a Crisis team? 9 for optimal effect.

Tactically, the Pathfindrs offer quite a bit. and if your goal is to not be dead by games end, your chances are probably better with the Pathfinders than with a Crisis team. there will be some very specific examples where that's not true, but very VERY few. Essentially only a barrage weapon trumps that, and then only if it ignores cover and hits dead on. But otherwise: Pathfindrs do offer several things.

DirtyDeeds wrote:


We'll play that game then... Crisis suits can DEEPSTRIKE, which puts them anywhere you want on the table. .

OK let's play that game then... crisis suits can DEEPSTRIKE and in so doing MISHAP. Well how's them apples.

The point is not that pathfinders are better than crisis suits or the opposite, but that they are not directly comparable, since outflanking and deep striking are, like, different and stuff, and hence if they are to be compared they must be indirectly so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that some people are obsessed with identifying x unit as unqualifiedly "better" than y unit, for some weird psychological reason, much as 12-year-olds spend hours wondering how would win in a fight, Superman or Goku. It's weird.

I'm not sure if Outflanking is a good reason to justify Pathfinders. Outflanking can still place Pathfinders on a table edge that is highly unfavorable. You can say that Deepstrike can scatter but you can still factor in scattering probability when placing your marker for Scatter. With Outflanking, you can have a 1/3 chance that your Outflanking move puts you on a table edge where you don't want to be.

Ultimately, I think Deepstrike still gives you more control on where your units can come in. The Jump-shoot-jump mobility from crisis suits is a bonus too.

Also consider that Pathfinders are Leadership 7, if I am not mistaken, while Crisis Suits are 8. That alone is a good reason to consider investing points in suits over Pathfinders.

Consider as well that other players are pretty much trained, at this point, to attack sources of markerlights when playing against Tau, making Pathfinders prime targets. If I know that Pathfinders will be a priority target and easy to kill, to boot, I really don't have an incentive to invest heavily into their options.

Quite honestly, Pathfinders are nice little Distraction Carnifexes for us. I can't remember playing any games where I played Pathfinders and they were never focused down by an opponent. Every time they are on the table, opponents make for a bee line right to them. Your opponent will likely prioritize Pathfinders over Stormsurges, Riptides, Ghostkeels, etc.

Knowing that, placing bare bone units of Pathfinders around the table might be a good way to give other of our units opportunities to score points. That seems like a better use for them, as opposed to using them for their heavy weapons and shooting.

First off.... I am not picking sides here. I was thinking of using pathfinders in the infiltration cadre to outflank with special weapons. Pathfinders offer capabilities, crisis suits also offer capabilities. It ultimately comes down to the rest of your list and your play styles.

That said, I can not bring myself to agree on the following points.

 Jancoran wrote:
Yet... the results are there. Outflanking is a lot safer way to get weapons on the board than deep striking. And if the idea is to get behind the enemy, Crisis teams can'tsafely do so as well.

I will be honest, I don't think I have had a crisis team mishap in the last dozen games. between homing beacon availability, and simply not being silly. More so, difficult terrain doesn't cause mishap, and they are 2 wounds each so it really doesn't even matter.

 Jancoran wrote:
Finally, shutting them down in close combat isn't even remotely as likely. Their Drone coupled with their range bfore they shoot the closest model are at 15 inches or so. With a Crisis team? 9 for optimal effect.

Pathfinders flank, enemy turns its head moves, charges, dead pathfinders. Crisis suits have the ability to assault jump giving them a little extra edge in putting distance between them and the aggressors. More importantly... what guns are you using on crisis suits that is optimal at 9".... only fusion? plasma is 12" rapid fire.. burst cannons/CIBS are 18".. MPs are 36". Plenty of room there.

 Jancoran wrote:
Tactically, the Pathfindrs offer quite a bit. and if your goal is to not be dead by games end, your chances are probably better with the Pathfinders than with a Crisis team. there will be some very specific examples where that's not true, but very VERY few. Essentially only a barrage weapon trumps that, and then only if it ignores cover and hits dead on. But otherwise: Pathfindrs do offer several things.

I agree pathfinders do offer quite a bit, one of the few units capable of considering outflank and the only troop that can carry special weapons. 100% disagree on the next point. pathfinders are t3 5+ and L7... there is no way one can argue that is more survivable than a unit with t4 2W L8 and has the opportunity to hop in and out of cover/LOS


Apples and Oranges

You can upgrade to a Shas'ui to make them LD8. I do that with my Firewarriors all the time, that +1LD saves my bacon a lot.
Hell i do it on my suits too (crisis/broadside/stealth) for LD9

Durability is one of Pathfinders' strengths? That's a new one by me, especially considering what other things you could get for the same points. I'm also not at all sold on outflanking being more reliable than Deep Strike, but I'd rather not use either. The alternatives to Pathfinders are plenty mobile to get where you need them to be. I'd even rather use Piranhas for mobile firepower.

Oh well, agree to disagree on Pathfinder special weapons, I guess.

 Bach wrote:
I'm not sure if Outflanking is a good reason to justify Pathfinders. Outflanking can still place Pathfinders on a table edge that is highly unfavorable. You can say that Deepstrike can scatter but you can still factor in scattering probability when placing your marker for Scatter. With Outflanking, you can have a 1/3 chance that your Outflanking move puts you on a table edge where you don't want to be.

Ultimately, I think Deepstrike still gives you more control on where your units can come in. The Jump-shoot-jump mobility from crisis suits is a bonus too.

Also consider that Pathfinders are Leadership 7, if I am not mistaken, while Crisis Suits are 8. That alone is a good reason to consider investing points in suits over Pathfinders.

Consider as well that other players are pretty much trained, at this point, to attack sources of markerlights when playing against Tau, making Pathfinders prime targets. If I know that Pathfinders will be a priority target and easy to kill, to boot, I really don't have an incentive to invest heavily into their options.

Quite honestly, Pathfinders are nice little Distraction Carnifexes for us. I can't remember playing any games where I played Pathfinders and they were never focused down by an opponent. Every time they are on the table, opponents make for a bee line right to them. Your opponent will likely prioritize Pathfinders over Stormsurges, Riptides, Ghostkeels, etc.

Knowing that, placing bare bone units of Pathfinders around the table might be a good way to give other of our units opportunities to score points. That seems like a better use for them, as opposed to using them for their heavy weapons and shooting.

The Pathfinders arent markerlights. But if the enemy wants ot come backwards and maaaaaaaaybe get close enough to fire ENOUGH atthem then sure. But outside of rapid fire range most of the time, the Pathfinders will not initially find it difficult to find cover when they enter, the Devilfish provides it also and obscures vision a great deal.

The link I offered shows the way in which they can be optimally used. Its a text book case, although certainly there are others.

As was pointed out, they arent the same as Crisis teams in really, any important way. the only thing tricky about Pathfinders is learning to use them and learning to trust in them.

Enemies often do not sense their peril when it comes to Pathfinders. i have found that to be very true. They dont panic or make special dispensation for their sudden appearance like they might other units. Counting on that isnt a strategy, but it is noteworthy enough to mention.

I began using them when i realized just how silly fragile the Crisis teams prove to be. They can so sqiftly be reduced in functionality that I got to the point of using Monat suits quite frequently. As i paired them down, it gave me more points to experiment in other areas and when they made the Rail rifle RAPID FIRE? Holy crap. I saw possibilities galore.

So try them in this role. Again that link really will kind of illustrate their usefulnesss and utility and oncer a quadrant is cleared, there are only so many turns in the game. The enemy cannot be everywhere. the idea behind them is to help absolutely clear a quadrant and then roll the flank.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
I think the biggest issue with Pathfinders that run special weapons is that as Tau we just have infinite special weapons options. Even our base troops now have a missile turret if we so desire, but we've always had some nice Swiss army knives such as the Crisis Suits that could do anything.

The only way Pathfinders could compete with our other options, not just Crisis Suits, is if they were significantly cheaper in points for their special weapons, but as it stand they're at the same amount of points for the weapon itself, which makes it less of an option considering they also normally come with the potent option of a Markerlight that we're already taxed for.

There's a few ways to fix Pathfinders, and one simple way would be to cost them at 9points each (like any fire Warrior), and then offer them Markerlights at 2points a model, and Rail Rifles at no more than 10 points. That way they can still function as Pathfinders do now, or function as Fire Warriors with special weapons that fill a Fast Attack slot, and they have cheaper costs as a whole which means you can consider them over Suits more. They're not just better than Fire Warriors either, as they can't get that nice turret, they only come with Carbines base, and they take up fast attack options.

I agree, I think that would a very reasonable adjustment and allow them to be more flexible. Hey! GW might sell more now that the use of markerlights has kinda dwindled with all the new formations.

I know, right? GW should really just pay me to make their rules for Tau, then again I've been toying around with writing a fandex as a for fun project.

 Grizzyzz wrote:


Pathfinders flank, enemy turns its head moves, charges, dead pathfinders. Crisis suits have the ability to assault jump giving them a little extra edge in putting distance between them and the aggressors. More importantly... what guns are you using on crisis suits that is optimal at 9".... only fusion? plasma is 12" rapid fire.. burst cannons/CIBS are 18".. MPs are 36". Plenty of room there.

I agree pathfinders do offer quite a bit, one of the few units capable of considering outflank and the only troop that can carry special weapons. 100% disagree on the next point. pathfinders are t3 5+ and L7... there is no way one can argue that is more survivable than a unit with t4 2W L8 and has the opportunity to hop in and out of cover/LOS


Apples and Oranges

mmm... let me state it more correctly.

1. Pathfinders outflank from 15 inches away. Closest target models removed. End of turn: any remaining enemy moels in that unit (if any) almost assuredly more than 18" away.

2. Other Tau Empire units help clear the sector (which is already a goal). If the enemy is anywhere near 18" of the Pathfinders, it's because multiple enemies were within 15" to begin with. So lets asume in fairness that two units were for some fortuitous reason there o nthe flank. Call it unit B.

3. Remaining enemies THEN turn their heads (as you say) and decide WHETHER or not the Pathfinders are now as good a target because... they also have been whittled but we are agreeing that they are not dead. The Pathfinders have a drone that reduces their charge by D3 inches! So not only is rushing them potentially frutiless...potentially... But the other Tau units may well have made this an even more foolhardy exercize and/or a worse target choice. Lets assume for argument sake that despite all this, the enemy wishes to go backwards to deal with Pathfinders (and they might) and that they are the best target (big if, but lets take it to its logical end). They ARE going backwards to deal with Pathfinders and DO still have to make the charge. Since they cant rapid fire, incoming shots to the Pathfinders wont be excessive, shield drones make AP less impactful and Devilfish and other cover will contribute. This coming from the potential Unit B that "turned its head".

Now you mention their toughness. You're not wrong there. Their toughness will be 4 if there are equal drones and Pathfinders. This brings up an interesting question. Do you take 5 Pathfinders and 5 Drones? Probably. Now only if the enemy uses two units to fire at the Pathfinders back yonder will they get to tough 3. If you take more pathfinders then you have T3. So the question becomes, do you take more than 5? Up to you but consider it. Also consider this in your thinking.

The Devilfish when it delivers them, can effectively block LOS to the Pathfinders. Line of Sight rules do make it somewhat difficult to get an angle at the Pathfinders. So given that unit A was effectively eliminated by Pathfinder and other fire, Unit B softened, will unit B even attempt to move around that thing, AND assault WITH the 1" rule in effect for the Devilfish (unless it also charges the Devilfish) and the -d3" charge drone in the unit? Hmm... I find that far from a "sure thing" on any level.

So you can see how many if's there are there. You can start to see why even if the enemy wanted to "turn its head" and end them, it's not so easy to actually do. They can certainly try and its a dice game so who knows? However that does also isolate the enemy unit further from their friends and support. Makes them ever more susceptible to yet more DS'ing, outflanking and other threats... Still, they can as you say "turn their heads" and try.

This is a lot of practice talking. I DO lose my Pathfinders. There's no such thing as perfect terrain, perfect opponent and perfect circumstances. But when you stack a whole lot of improbabilities up, it really helps your enemy make an alternative decision. If you truly want to annoy, add DarkStrider to a unit of them. He makes your life even easier. i wouldn't necessarly recommend him as a preferential HQ, but I did use him at a tournament and it helped me go 5-0 (incluing the Pathfinders finishing a WraithKnight off in the final round with his ability helping to drop toughness to 7).

It's effective.

How can you take 5 drones? Can't you only take the 2+a recon drone?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
How can you take 5 drones? Can't you only take the 2+a recon drone?

Nope. Its spendy but there are three drones plus shield drones (which have a total of 6 wounds) you can take. Recon drones are cool. They come with a Burst Cannon and two wounds.

Recon drones let you bring Kroot units (or whatever reserves you want) from the enemy board edge! More reasons to outflank!

So what does the Pulse Accelerator drone provide for your units if you're going heavy on the special weapons? It seems like you'll generally have a lot less pulse weapons in the unit and you will want to be within the Carbine range anyway due to the rapid fire range of Rail Rifles.

I can maybe see trying to use the Pathfinders as powerful Carbine platforms with the Pulse Accelerator drone, almost as if they were pseudo Breachers, but I don't really understand using it in a unit with multiple Rail Rifles.

 Tinkrr wrote:
So what does the Pulse Accelerator drone provide for your units if you're going heavy on the special weapons? It seems like you'll generally have a lot less pulse weapons in the unit and you will want to be within the Carbine range anyway due to the rapid fire range of Rail Rifles.

I can maybe see trying to use the Pathfinders as powerful Carbine platforms with the Pulse Accelerator drone, almost as if they were pseudo Breachers, but I don't really understand using it in a unit with multiple Rail Rifles.

The Pulse Accelerator lets me move away from the enemy and still shoot them. It gives me the T4 for a round and it gives me an ablative wound, albeit that is sort of secondary in importance obviously. Once I have the enemy OUT of effective attack range, I want to stay effective and involved inteh game. I can approach to within 24" and still hit stuff if I have that drone which is still too far to charge. Jump troops dont mind 18" range but they do mind 24"

 Jancoran wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
So what does the Pulse Accelerator drone provide for your units if you're going heavy on the special weapons? It seems like you'll generally have a lot less pulse weapons in the unit and you will want to be within the Carbine range anyway due to the rapid fire range of Rail Rifles.

I can maybe see trying to use the Pathfinders as powerful Carbine platforms with the Pulse Accelerator drone, almost as if they were pseudo Breachers, but I don't really understand using it in a unit with multiple Rail Rifles.

The Pulse Accelerator lets me move away from the enemy and still shoot them. It gives me the T4 for a round and it gives me an ablative wound, albeit that is sort of secondary in importance obviously. Once I have the enemy OUT of effective attack range, I want to stay effective and involved inteh game. I can approach to within 24" and still hit stuff if I have that drone which is still too far to charge. Jump troops dont mind 18" range but they do mind 24"

Ok, so what's your squad load out for that unit? As in what does the unit look like on an army list?

Your pathfonder unit is starting to sound pretty expensive for what it can do.

I dont disagree it adds another layer of threat and decision making but your talking about 80 points in drones + pathfinders which is probably a 150+ unit. Idk. I just dont know... But that's why this thread exists. o7

If we were playing single-cad games with no formations, i'd consider running offensive pathfinders. That was always my biggest battle with Orks for the longest time: freeing up slots because i fill an entire FOC long before i meet my point requirements unless i take some things that make no sense in my tactic because they cost more lol

FOC limitations might as well not even be thought of anymore. Elites were always maxed out, even before riptides were a thing, but FA/Heavy were rarely maxed out. Come 6th, Heavy started getting used a lot more than a single broadside unit. FA is still nonexistent in most lists except for pathfinder marker units.

Pre double CAD, i always stressed trying to use stealth suits or multiple crisis suits because Riptides are too good. I might have considered pathfinder offensive units then if i thought about it, but not anymore. I run 3-4 firewarrior squads as it is, so the troop tax for double cad doesnt even bother me. The formations make it even less of a burden lol...its pretty easy to get 6-9 units of solo crisis suits now on top of a couple riptides.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
Your pathfonder unit is starting to sound pretty expensive for what it can do.

I dont disagree it adds another layer of threat and decision making but your talking about 80 points in drones + pathfinders which is probably a 150+ unit. Idk. I just dont know... But that's why this thread exists. o7

I dunno, I think 295 points for a unit that can maybe severely weaken its target, assuming it arrives in the proper place, and needs significant help to survive and do any subsequent damage sounds like a great deal. Honestly, I think your points are better spent on just about anything else - Crisis Suits, Breachers, Ghostkeels, Riptides, whatever - but I'll stick with Crisis suits since they're probably the most closely and easily comparable thing. We'll give them dual plasma, just for giggles. For the record, I disagree that this comparison is apples to oranges since we're talking about a mobile unit with mid-strength, low AP weaponry that can (theoretically) deploy where it's needed. Aaaanyway, for the same price as the unit in the linked army, 295 pts, you get 6 suits with a total of 11 plasma rifles. I doubt I need to highlight how that's better than 3 rail rifles, but I will: that's a lot better than 3 rail rifles (and 8 pulse shots). As for the grav drone, don't Crisis suits essentially subtract 2d6" from the opponent's charge instead of d3? The jet pack move also allows you to do all the range shenanigans you mention, only more easily. Suits don't need to rely on weird unit composition to get T4 since...they're T4. They also bring more wounds -12 vs 9 - and a 3+ save. No Devilfish to block LOS to (AND from, mind you) the unit, though, for whatever that's worth. I guess you lose the potential for switching to marker lights, but if you're using offensively armed Pathfinders formarkerlights, you're either really desperate for a D missile or doing something badly wrong.

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
So what does the Pulse Accelerator drone provide for your units if you're going heavy on the special weapons? It seems like you'll generally have a lot less pulse weapons in the unit and you will want to be within the Carbine range anyway due to the rapid fire range of Rail Rifles.

I can maybe see trying to use the Pathfinders as powerful Carbine platforms with the Pulse Accelerator drone, almost as if they were pseudo Breachers, but I don't really understand using it in a unit with multiple Rail Rifles.

The Pulse Accelerator lets me move away from the enemy and still shoot them. It gives me the T4 for a round and it gives me an ablative wound, albeit that is sort of secondary in importance obviously. Once I have the enemy OUT of effective attack range, I want to stay effective and involved inteh game. I can approach to within 24" and still hit stuff if I have that drone which is still too far to charge. Jump troops dont mind 18" range but they do mind 24"

Ok, so what's your squad load out for that unit? As in what does the unit look like on an army list?

I personally made the choice to go with more Pathfinders because the T3, while very relevant, is mitigated by the enemies opportunity. So my unit I currently use, more or less is this:

228pts 7 Pathfinders (EMP Grenades, 3 x Rail Rifles, Shas'ui w/2 x Shield Drones, Recon Drone, Grav Inhibitor Drone, Pulse Accelerator Drone)

Compared to, say, this:

195pts 3 Crisis Suits (TL Fusion+Fusion on all of them, 2 x Shield Drones)

So you can see I pay 33 more points.

Pathfinder Pros:
13 Pathfinder wounds vs only 5-8 (depending on what hits the Crisis team)
Scout and Outflank are risk free deployment moves. Crisis team must Deep Strike
Deep Strikes behind an enemy are quite Dangerous, an outflank is not
The Pathfinders are likely to survive the end of the game. Crisis teams operate too close ot the enemy to do that even when they do well (and they often do well)
The Pathfinders have more range.
The Pathfinders can jump in a transport if they get in trouble.
The Pathfinders can cut a tank to ribbons if throwing their Haywire and firing into the rear with their STR 6 AP 1 doesn't get the job done. Crisis teams must do the best they can with fists if their Fusions don't. Both cases dont come up often but its worth mentioning.
Despite all the damage the unit can do it doubles as Markerlight unit which Crisis teams can never do.
The Recon Drone is a huge synergy, allowing Troops to come in from the enemy board edge! Thats is an enormous advantage.



Cons:
For 33 points, you're T3 and have crappy armor which makes cover essential and positioning needs to be perfect
For 33 points, you are now losing the likely use of the Mrkerlights in favor of a more aggressive usage that doesnt synergize s well with the army (albeit really, they become what other compoents actually synergize to)
For 33 points, the Chrisis team gains JSJ, which the Pathfinders can only dream of having.


So I mean the numbers aren't really far off. Crisis Tems are sexier. I get it. But i think my experience with Pathfinders has really come around.

Underlying all my feelings about list building is a simple truth: Mobility options are essential. The more ways and times you can come onto the board, the more you control over the ebb and flow of the tide.

@Jancoran

Sounds great. I will be using special weapons pathfinders with recon drones in my formations. Not going to load up on all the drones tho I don't think you gain that much for the cost.

That all said I still love my crisis suits. So not picking sides here ;-)

The Ranged Support Cadre is where it's at with the Special Weapons Pathfinders. Combine with Drone-Net VX formation (Marker Lights / Guns) and Ghostkeel Wing for mobility/cover where/when needed.