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 Jancoran wrote:
None of which do the same thing.

That is the point - that you can get it all done for less points if you diversify.

But that horse is beyond dead. Glad that it's working for you

In peoples experience, how good is the Puretide Engram chip?

Razerous wrote:
In peoples experience, how good is the Puretide Engram chip?

For 15 points? Pretty damn.

Too bad you can't take the Puretide chip on a Coldstar commander. THAT would be sweet! One thing I do wonder is whether people ever run a Commander as an offensive character rather than a Buffmander or Mark'O. I was thinking maybe a build like 2x Missile Pod/Cyclic Ion Blaster, Shield Generator, Stim Injector, Iridium Suit, Puretide Chip. Put him in a unit of Crisis Bodyguards or regular Crisis suits and kill stuff. Is this possibly worth trying? Or is this basically the same as the old Farsight Bomb?

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Too bad you can't take the Puretide chip on a Coldstar commander. THAT would be sweet! One thing I do wonder is whether people ever run a Commander as an offensive character rather than a Buffmander or Mark'O. I was thinking maybe a build like 2x Missile Pod/Cyclic Ion Blaster, Shield Generator, Stim Injector, Iridium Suit, Puretide Chip. Put him in a unit of Crisis Bodyguards or regular Crisis suits and kill stuff. Is this possibly worth trying? Or is this basically the same as the old Farsight Bomb?

Surely 2x Missile Pods, drone controller, target lock & PEN is a pretty decent offensive commander?

I mean, the two missile pods without the PEN are lack lustre (as in Okay) but with, becomes pretty reliable. Also you can start charging in str5/6 attacks (right?).

I'm going to be running a Fusion Blade/VRT/Stim commander with Talisman/Onager/Iridium/PEN in a unit of three Flamer Suits for fun. I'll see how it goes.

 raverrn wrote:
I'm going to be running a Fusion Blade/VRT/Stim commander with Talisman/Onager/Iridium/PEN in a unit of three Flamer Suits for fun. I'll see how it goes.

For the Greater Fu?

Honored O'Ginsu

 luke1705 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
None of which do the same thing.

That is the point - that you can get it all done for less points if you diversify.

But that horse is beyond dead. Glad that it's working for you

Apparently not dead.

This is a tactica thread. it is where people theoretically come to learn. Theoretically.

If you are coming here to tell me the success I'm enjoying and have enjoyed with it isn't real, you'd be lying. So for those who want to learn how to use MORE of their codex and stop relying on crutches, i think the Pathfinders are pretty relevant discussion pieces.

Again: None of the things on that list do what the Pathfinders do. Also you GROSSLY overstated their cost.

The Pathfinder unit I described is 214 points. it does 2.22 + 4.16 unsaved wounds to a MEQ unit on the round it appears, can Pin them and makes a counter charge by that unit all but infeasible, It doesn't die the next turn. So it can do it again with even less resistence, plus it's scoring objectives Or it can kill a tank squadron.

Is your Riptide going to kill a tank Squadron in one round? Is your Crisis team going to last for two rounds when it has to drop so much closer to danger? What unit on that list can do ALL the things the Pathfinders can do?

I am not here to dissuade anyone from doing other things. Far from it. I do other things also, because I have a lot of models. But I can absolutely show you that its an incredibly flexible weapon that is worth the expenditure. Its almost like not having to chose what you are going to do before you see the enemy and terrain. Tools for anti-tank, anit-horde, anti-elite, and blunting assaults. They can assist other units if it comes to it with markerlights although thats not really what they do generaly in this kind of build.

Give them a try.

214 points x 2 + 100 for Darkstrider? That's pretty spot on for 540 for a Riptide wing. Which will, absolutely, do anything your Pathfinders do. And it will do it turn 1. And turns 3-7 because it won't be wiped out by a Whirlwind, Warp Spider or wet sneeze.

With the cutthroat tournament meta I'm in, I don't think those Pathfinders would work for me. A lot of the local talent play at Adepticon and other GTs, and they use lists that can compete in those GTs in our local tournaments. These guys are good. I'm not sure that Pathfinder unit would hold up around here. I do like the idea though, and it is nice to see people thinking outside the box. I might just have to give the unit a try at least in casual play and see how it works!

One thing I'm curious about in your list; how did you squeeze Aun'va into a HC? You would have to take a Contingent Headquarters and therefore a second Commander and a Crisis Bodyguard team. Or is that the part of the list that you forgot? Don't take this question the wrong way, I am genuinely curious.

I didn't use Dark Strider. His use was a side comment. He also is not a part of the unit so counting him as a part of their cost is an unfair comparison. Like all HQ's, he serves like they all do, as force augments. The unit itself is 214. Who joins it or doesn't isn't adding to THEIR cost.

My last opponent took a Riptide wing, not just two. How ironic you should mention that.

When you look objectively at what the Pathfinders did for me it was simply this: they handed me the Maelstrom mission and put me within that one 3+ invul Riptide save of winning. His Wraithknight hit all four times in the last round and wounded all four times. I failed one too many saves and he took Primary and forced it to Tertiaries. Done. Sometimes the dice just hate you. One save away from victory. it is what it is. It was a good game. I helped him out by no-braining it and rolling for Nova on my Riptide...who had four wounds already. oops. that was costly too. And hilarious. But mostly costly. I lost focus there and... yeah...

The Pathfinders tore up three bike Squads and wounded the Command squad and WraithKnight, plus gobbled up objective points while my Riptides took the other two bike squads out (Because: markerlights).

Really quite good.. He never killed either unit nor the Devilfish. His command squad tore into the Pathfinders at games end with their guns but didn't break them (Drones be praised) and that's where it stood at the end.

So. Pretty pleased with the results. not the end result but the performance of the Pathfinders.

And a Riptide Wing would have picked up the Wraithknight in one shooting phase, with no Markerlight support.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
With the cutthroat tournament meta I'm in, I don't think those Pathfinders would work for me. A lot of the local talent play at Adepticon and other GTs, and they use lists that can compete in those GTs in our local tournaments. These guys are good. I'm not sure that Pathfinder unit would hold up around here. I do like the idea though, and it is nice to see people thinking outside the box. I might just have to give the unit a try at least in casual play and see how it works!

yip, its definitely outside the box. I am constantly attempting to actually learn the codex. So much has come at us so fast that there's a lot of ground to explore just in the new formations.

As for the meta: we are on the Portland to Seattle trail. Believe me when I say that I know what you mean. I suggest trying this in casual games until you get more comfortable. it will also matter how they treat Allied Detachments in your area. The Bomber is an easy thing to trade out if you need to.

I am actually going to run this as a CAD. As I mentioned the loss of Objective Secured is just too painful. I see Necron ecurions losing all the time because of that CAD's are cooler and with outflanking troops, its especially cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 raverrn wrote:
And a Riptide Wing would have picked up the Wraithknight in one shooting phase, with no Markerlight support.

They were on the same side. Lol. So that's sort of irrelevant don't you think? If you're suggesting that his could of, you'd be wrong. he had ion Accelerators on his. So no. Not really.

If someone is so bold as to take the alternative weapon which is fine, he loses a ton of range and must REALLY take big risks to do their damage. But sure? Could also happen.

Alternatively with enough range and mobility you can simply avoid the Wraith Knight for most of the game and destroy every biker he has, killing his mobility and scoring power. I like that idea also.

So as you say, there ARE more ways to get it done. Just don't underestimate the damage the Riptides are more likely to take when they do that. For example he wanted to stay out of my Sniper Drones Rapid Fire Range and away from the sides where the Outflanking Pathfinders would come. With Aun'Va, that's a lot of Sniper shots. Coupled with his Nova wounds... it adds up.

So as i mentioned, it funnels the enemy to the center...which allows you to turn the flank. It protects you a fair amount when you do that.

Not the only way to go. Just going over the virtues of this way. And they are many.

 raverrn wrote:
I'm going to be running a Fusion Blade/VRT/Stim commander with Talisman/Onager/Iridium/PEN in a unit of three Flamer Suits for fun. I'll see how it goes.

My current casual commander is:

Iridium, Neuro web, puretide, Fuson Blades, Talismon, Stim, VRT. The onager is kinda redundant (i suppose a fair backup incase you roll a 1 on the blade after combat though). Personally, I usually start him in with my broadsides (Retaliation Cadre), or a unit of plasma crisis.

In both cases, all the puretide buffs confer to the unit, so it can be really good to throw dice with rerolls to hit and wound (broads twin linked).


------------------

In terms of pathfinders, no i did not put them in a devilfish or take their drones. I have learned long ago not to "kit" out my units too much. I prefer to field more squads or spread upgrades. That is my personal list building style. For me... devilfish are an auto 100 points or 110 with the sms.. Once I fill in the pathfinders as you stated i'm over 200 points and that is just alot of points to me especially for a unit that yeah.. can go to ground.. but in the end is t3 with a 5+ save. To many counters to that.

Plus, if your in the most effective range your 15" from your target.. which is plenty close enough to be retaliated (not necessarily charged)

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Too bad you can't take the Puretide chip on a Coldstar commander. THAT would be sweet! One thing I do wonder is whether people ever run a Commander as an offensive character rather than a Buffmander or Mark'O. I was thinking maybe a build like 2x Missile Pod/Cyclic Ion Blaster, Shield Generator, Stim Injector, Iridium Suit, Puretide Chip. Put him in a unit of Crisis Bodyguards or regular Crisis suits and kill stuff. Is this possibly worth trying? Or is this basically the same as the old Farsight Bomb?

There's no reason you can't stick a Commander with a Bodyguard or two and give the latter the buffing wargear, thus allowing you to use his BS.

 Grizzyzz wrote:


[quo
In terms of pathfinders, no i did not put them in a devilfish or take their drones. I have learned long ago not to "kit" out my units too much. I prefer to field more squads or spread upgrades. That is my personal list building style. For me... devilfish are an auto 100 points or 110 with the sms.. Once I fill in the pathfinders as you stated i'm over 200 points and that is just alot of points to me especially for a unit that yeah.. can go to ground.. but in the end is t3 with a 5+ save. To many counters to that.

Plus, if your in the most effective range your 15" from your target.. which is plenty close enough to be retaliated (not necessarily charged)

I dont think so. 15"...Plus the inches you create by killing the enemy. So it ends up being very difficult for anyone to charge you (Grav wave added to that? good times). Moreover, while SOME units may be close enough to shoot you, theres a reason for those drones. And if they want to kill Pathfinders instead of my Riptides OR my Marker Drones I'd say there are worse fates.

Anyone can be retaliated against. That's not a disqualifyng factor for any unit. But this one does a very good job of keeping its assailants at a healthy distance and its a meat grinder if they come in on them.

I'm sure this has popped up before, but anyone running a culexus assassin? I can just about fit one in with some trimming of my list, but without an imperial transport (rhino/drop pod), I'm not sure about how good he is?

I've run into armies heavy on psykers a few times, and not having a defense bar shoot them first kinda sucks.

 Bryan01 wrote:
I'm sure this has popped up before, but anyone running a culexus assassin? I can just about fit one in with some trimming of my list, but without an imperial transport (rhino/drop pod), I'm not sure about how good he is?

I've run into armies heavy on psykers a few times, and not having a defense bar shoot them first kinda sucks.

People have used it and it can be extremely effective at shutting out psychers since Tau don't have a presence in that phase. I say if you have room, absolutely try it out. Doesn't the unit have infiltrate? you don't need a transport imo.

I have heard really ghood things. I own the model but have never done it. However, there have been times when i definitely wished I had him.

 Jancoran wrote:

You know what you should do because you like your pathfinders.

Run the Ghostkeel wing. Since you have the recon drones they have locator beacons.. have your pathfinders flank in then drop your ghostkeel right in on them.. now your pathfinders have stealth on top of cover, and if you go to ground your easy getting 2+ cover saves. Now you have the ghost near by who are better at taking out tougher threats as well.

Just a thought. Especially if your running Aunva.

Yaya. Now that sounds like a good idea. I own three Ghostkeels (have only proxied them because I am slow and I hate the painting). I could get off my lazy arse and actually finish building them I suppose.

Yeah the assassins have infiltrate, only worry is that psykers if mobile can get away pretty fast from a guy on foot or deploy via other means (deepstrike etc).

Still, would be nice to have an option, other then shoot harder vs psykers.

 Bryan01 wrote:
Yeah the assassins have infiltrate, only worry is that psykers if mobile can get away pretty fast from a guy on foot or deploy via other means (deepstrike etc).

Still, would be nice to have an option, other then shoot harder vs psykers.

It will take practice to get a good feel for it. What I would do is keep him nearish my core force. Basically you want to prevent the enemy psychers from being able to get close to your main force. It is less offensive and more defensive if you know what i mean.

Take playing GKs for example.. your culexus is denying a 24" bubble of the board essentially which is HUGE .. esspecially if he wants to drop in somewhere near there.

Against Eldar you can basically deny a spot of the board for his seer council to bounce too, which helps you control mobility.

The culexus is a board control tool. As awesome of a gun he has, I am unsure how often you will be able to use it to full effect.

move a rhino up and hop him in? Calls for some allies obviously so theres that but...

Hey just want to make sure I'm playing this the way that most people do/the right way of possible:

Markerlights and the stormsurge - if I have some markerlights on unit A and the surge boosts his BS to 5, those markerlights don't affect any guns that he fires at unit B, right? Or am I doing it wrong and they just flat increase his BS for the duration of the shooting phase at all targets?

 luke1705 wrote:
Hey just want to make sure I'm playing this the way that most people do/the right way of possible:

Markerlights and the stormsurge - if I have some markerlights on unit A and the surge boosts his BS to 5, those markerlights don't affect any guns that he fires at unit B, right? Or am I doing it wrong and they just flat increase his BS for the duration of the shooting phase at all targets?

only at the selected target. the other targets use his original BS.

which was kind of funny in my last game. played against a Swarmlord that was able to consistently use Paroxysm to drop my stormsurge's BS to zero, which I was then able to use markerlights to increase to a reasonable level.

and on the subject of assassins. . . whichever you use is a desperate ally. keep more than 6 inches away unless you are comfortable in possibly not being able to do anything on your turn with anything close.

I asked this another thread but figured I would seek input here as well. I have been thinking about Frankie's double Stormsurge list and wondering how it would perform if you dropped the riptide wing and replaced it with another Stormsurge and a Yvara. The list would otherwise look the same:

HQ: drone mander, 2 marker drones
Troops: 2 x 1 crisis suits
FA: 6 marker drones, Yvara with fnp
LoW: 3 x Stormsurge (driver, ats, ewo)

that list has absolutely no board presence. You would never win objectives, you'd be forced to table your opponent damn near every game.

SS is a GMC but hes also still in a unit. Units, GMC or not, are only allowed to hold 1 objective. Guarantee the solo crisis suits arent holding anything since a solo suit isnt hard to get rid of and the y'vahra's guns are wayyyy too short range to hold anything reliably.
That leaves the Commander and his drone blob, giving you a potential 2 objectives you can reliably hold until he gets shot off the board since hes your only marker source.

Yep. 1300 points is way too many to tie up in a single unit at 1850. Doesn't matter what it can do.

The riptide wing (or OSC, or whatever else you want to bring) is an important part of having your army be in more than 1 spot