Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/04/22 04:49:38
Subject: Re:For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Top of 2. Carrie leads Maelstrom 2 to 0. She killed a unit of FW. I wounded 2 riptides myself. Put a HP on her warlord and an arc. 1 wound on Dthirster and 3 wounds on Daemon Prince. Damnit!!!! Heldrake and Scythe come in.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well. This will likely be last turn. I made the drake jink. Praise jesus. And did 2 HP to scythe. She killed another unit of FW. Took a wound off of a surge. Now her melee units are on the ground. Uh oh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 04:50:37
2016/04/22 04:52:45
Subject: Re:For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Going into T3. Score 4-1 Carrie's Favor. All the D Missiles shot but 1. Did mother fething NOTHING. However I was able to Kill the DThirster and the Daemon Prince, who had the Axe of Ruin and immediately summoned ANOTHER blood thirster.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 04:55:12
2016/04/22 04:58:07
Subject: Re:For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Top of T4. 6-6. Tau killed a ghost arc, blood thirster, unit of blood letters, unit of deathmarks, and heldrake in T3. Ouch. We were going for kill 3. Giving us a tie. But tau only has 3 units maybe tabled. Called at the bottom of turn 4 for time.
Tau victory, but if continued who knows...
Primary = Tau
Maelstrom = Tie
Bonus
- Tau = Slay + GrndCntrl
- Necrons = 0
Total Score 8 - 2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So. Tau tactics. Riptide Wing plus ripple fire and heels down storm surges EATS monsterous creatures for BREAKFAST. Nom nom nom.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/22 05:00:58
2016/04/22 08:38:20
Subject: Re:For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
EDIT: Note that I dropped a Ghostkeel for this matchup because he wanted to play 1850.
RHis Grey Knights, replete with a pair of Dreadknights AND a big honking Imperial Knight, plus Inquisitor and a couple Purifier squads in Rhinos showed up. two Shunting Interceptor squads were in the rear, babysitting objectives and preparing to strike.
I let him go first after placing my perfunctory Fortification (a Gunrig) on the left flank. Vanguard deployment and Big guns Never Tire was the mission. Line breaker, Warlord and Ground Control were the tertiaries.
I deployed a Piranha and nothing else. I did not try to seize.
So in turn one he decided, despite ample opportunity, not to shoot my Piranha. he shunted over and ported in to try on the left flank to kill the offending Gunrig that was devoid of any occupants at that point, but cover and Night Fighting protected it. His fear was that he didn't want to trigger my Formation ability to bring in reserves. He failed to get his melstrom objective because he just couldn't get enough going on the Gunrig in turn one.
In my Turn, my Piranha moved and took a maelstrom point.
Turn two rolled around and he again moved and fired his stuff at the Gun Rig. His purifiers were in the center of the board in Rhinos while his DreadKnight on the left near the unit that had dropped in. The second Dreadknight trailed behind the Purifiers midboard, vigilant against enemy activity. The Imperial Knight moved over to join in the barrage to kill the Gunrig. Again, cover saved it. Again he did not kill the Piranha (on purpose).
My entire army minus a 3 man Stealth Squad and some fire warriors came in on turn two, deep striking everywhere. The force laced into his Librarian Warlord and his deep striking buddies near the gun rig, along with outflanking Pathfinders contributing. Stealthsuits used precision shots to kill the Incinerator and help kill the Warlord. The DreadKnight on the left was vaporized by Riptie and Stealthsuit fire as well as a Gunrig shot. The Imperial Knight took four hull Points from the Wall of Mirrors laid down by the Ghostkels who had come in. Seeing danger, they all faded back to avoid being charged. Dreadknight in the middle took a wound. I forget how.
The Purifiers Psychic Shrieked some Stealth suits and sent them running. The rest of the army turned to deal damage to the Riptides and ended up doing 3 Hit points to him. Other elements shifted around and the Dreadknight in the middle shunted to klll fire Warriors in order to accomplish both of its Maelstrom objectives while stopping me from scoring one. A wise choice. Interceptors ventured forward but an incinerator got tangled up in terrain and died.
My Stealthsuits regrouped and the army fired full on, redropping the 3 Stealthsuits that had mishap'd earlier and were now behind the Imperial Knight and killing it. The exploion didnt do anything to anyone though. The second DreadKnight got its face blown off. The Rhino the nearest Purifiers were in got blown up.
The purifiers marched forward and fired at the target right in front of them, the Ghostkeels after killing four more Stealthsuits with Psychic Shriek (that power mowed me) but thanks to the Holophoton Countermeasures, the Ghostkels weathered it. Obviously as the Purifiers had been blown out of their Rhino last turn, they couldn't charge.
My Ghostkeels and Stealthsuits which hadn't been destroyd by Psychic Shrieks (there weren't many left) as well as the Riptides were ready to tear the Inquisitor and his unit to ribbons on my turn.
With essentially the Purifiers in a Rhino and a couple Interceptor Squads left, the jig was up and we ended the game there.
Yes on paper but he eats a lot of points so probably not in practice. I don't know if I would run a command suit at 500 points. But this also depends on restrictions in your campaign. At 500 points my group doesn't allow 2+ saves, invul saves, anything better than AV12 on any side, no more than 2w so it keeps a lot of the shenanigans down.
If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM!
2016/04/22 11:57:50
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Col. Dash wrote: Yes on paper but he eats a lot of points so probably not in practice. I don't know if I would run a command suit at 500 points. But this also depends on restrictions in your campaign. At 500 points my group doesn't allow 2+ saves, invul saves, anything better than AV12 on any side, no more than 2w so it keeps a lot of the shenanigans down.
Yeah that would definitely limit a ton.
The setting at the start as we start claiming uncontested tiles, we essentially have a scouting party. No real restrictions, but no formations at this level.
You must not deploy so close to the line! You're Tau for Gawds sake. Lol.
You made me lol! Coffee came out of my nose.
Also, I read your report. Well done on your victory. What special rule did he avoid by not killing the piranha? Also, why no ion rakers on the ghostkeels?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 14:07:50
2016/04/22 14:15:09
Subject: Re:For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Also, I read your report. Well done on your victory. What special rule did he avoid by not killing the piranha? Also, why no ion rakers on the ghostkeels?
If your referring to Jancoran's report.. the Infiltration Cadre has a special rule that basically is....if any unit in this formation dies, they cry out to the greater good for aid, and all your reserves come in on your turn automatically
So since Jancoran gave his opponent first turn... if his piranha was killed.. all of his reserves would come in on his turn, which would be his turn 1 in this case.
I still need to try this formation at some point..
2016/04/22 16:02:52
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
I did play with Ion Rakers. It just didn't show on the list. thugh I am not leaning towards all Ion Rakers. I am leaning towards haing one, and then two Fuson Colliders.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Jancoran wrote: I did play with Ion Rakers. It just didn't show on the list. thugh I am not leaning towards all Ion Rakers. I am leaning towards haing one, and then two Fuson Colliders.
I'll give you an example. The Ion Raker is effective against both NORMAL infantry and vehicles. Not so much agsainst anything else such as elites with 2+ armor, or normal Monsters. Anything with a 3+ armor starts to degrade its usefulness, but it's still a good weapon even so due to its strength. It has a STR 8 mode which is really nice. So its just got a lot going for it. As an anti-air answer I also like it and that is indeed why I will have one in there for sure.
The Melta thing is really nice for a more definitive kill. The +2 to armor penetration isnt a small thing and its AP 1 gives it the elite killing power.
Ask yourself: Do Tau Empire have enough anti-personelle stuff? Of course. they lack nothing in this regard. so it seems to me that i already CAN kill all I want to kill of the things the Raker kills best (vehicles aside).
As for vehicles, the Raker has to hull them out and the Fusion Collider does not. Moreover it is likely that the Collider will produce a more useful result on the damage table whereas the Collider isnt likely to produce one at all (though it occasionally will of course).
I can make the argument pretty easily for both weapons.
One other thing that is persuading me is that the Tau Empire, if the enemy is having any success to begin with, gives the enemy AMPLE opportunity to bunch up after assaults or when avoiding terrain to get to us. So this produces good opportunities to REALLY hurt the enemy when Armor is made irrelevant.
DreadKnights and Riptides are good examples of the problem for Tau empire. The Imperial Knight I fought last night has a 12 on the rear, so the Rakers had to work hard even with Wall of Mirrors to take it on. i got it done but the plain old Twin linked Meltas actually did a lot of the work there. The unit that eventually killed it was just a three man Stealth Squad that dropped in to say hello with its normal meltagun.
So I cannot tell anyone they are wrong to like the Ion Raker but what i observed in the games so far is that the Fusion Collider would have been a definitive answer to a lot of them. The Ion Raker has superior range which DID matter in my game and I will say that the Deep Strikes i can make with the Ion Raker are safer so in that sense I liked having them in this game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 19:36:42
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I think you're probably better off taking fusion or plasma suits or an IA/fusion Riptide if you're trying to deal with armored infantry or vehicles. The ion raker is pretty clearly the superior choice for Ghostkeels, in my opinion. If you're shooting at vehicles, the collider is basically just a regular fusion gun, and with infantry, you're pretty unlikely to hit more than 3 models (probably just 1-2). That's an improvement over the CIR against 2+ but about the same vs 3+. The range differential between the weapons obviously isn't huge but can make a difference. I agree that it's nice to be able to outright blow up a vehicle, but I don't think Ghostkeels are the unit you should choose for that task.
2016/04/23 00:26:11
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Milkman, there is more here than just the act of killing a vehicle... but that definitely should not be undervalued.
the chassis doesnt die like Crissi teams. thats huge. The defensive ablity of the Ghostkeel is so far beyond the Crisis teams you're recommending that i am not clear why you would recommend them as alternatives.
The value of Firepower is DIRECTLY proportional to how long you have to bring it to bear. Even a crappy weapon can be pure gold when placed on something that never dies. Ask Corbulo in 5th Edition all about it. Dude was insanely useful.
So here we have a world class gun (almost as good as it gets more or less) that can kill anything on a chassis that really only fears melee. Whereas simple missiles will end a Crisis team on the spot, they are lucky to touch the Ghostkeels at all.
The IonRaker obviously benefits fro mthe same comparison. But as far as units carrying them go...
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Crisis teams are definitely more fragile than Ghostkeels, point for point, I'll grant you that, for sure. However, they also pour out about 2-3 times as many melta hits. Durability is great, but glass cannons have their place, too.
Riptides, though a bit more expensive, put out more damage and are more durable. Yeah, the IA is not as good against vehicles, but it's significantly more useful against infantry. It's also nice to have a higher chance of scattering into things if you miss your target.
Don't get me wrong, I think Ghostkeels are amazing. They may well be my favorite unit. I just prefer to get my low AP action elsewhere due to small blasts sort of sucking, in general. You can do better than 2-3 fusion guns at the 150 point range in our book.
2016/04/23 16:20:24
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Understood and as I've said a couple times now, i can easily make the case for either weapon and as i have said, there will be an Ion Raker in the unit. But symetry isn't that important to me. When you look at my list, you can plainly see that I don't have Crisis Teams and I DO have anti-personell covered. two Riptides is plenty. So i mean your suggestion only makes sense if a want a Crisis suit more than a Ghostkeel...and I don't. Too much good stuff going on with them.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Looking at your list, you do, indeed, have anti-personnel covered. You're also a Riptide away from being able to split them off into a Riptide Wing, so given my above statement, that's certainly something to consider. Two Riptides may be enough, but 3 Riptides that can shoot twice during one turn and reroll nova reactors is excellent. That's probably worth swapping out one of your fusion Ghostkeels and a stealth suit or two, in my opinion, even though it costs you Fire Team in your OSC.
2016/04/25 06:14:56
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Had a rematch. He altered his list. Added a bunch more Psychic Shriek throwers from henchmen in rhinos instead of his interceptors. He had a couple objective grabbing strike squads, two sreads, two dreadknights and tried the force weapon shooting gun to take out my riptides with. So very much more tailored to kill me.
THIS time it was Hammer and Anvil, The Scouring. I opted to go second again. I deployed my (now) more fearsome Piranha near his objective 3 and in range of all three. I placed the perfunctory gunrig way back and to the center. Time to go.
He swooshed forwad in rhinos to take objectives. He had to kill two units. His Dreadknight shunted to kill the Gunrig(one of his objectives). His Dreadnought tried to kill the piranha (for another) but managed to blow only a seeker missile off of it. On my turn I immobikized his Rhino w the piranha.
Turn two his strike squad jumped in to help with killing the Gunrig. They got it done. Pirahna also died.
My entire army showed up on the left flank save for Fire Warriors which took residence in the Gunrig while the others pushed towards his objective three where once my Piranha had been. I killed the rhino and henchman on objective 2 midboard, his Dreadknight, his offending Strike Squad and waited for his retibution.
Turn 3 the Dreadknight tried to kill the Riptide with Force shots, but failed despite hitting well due to prescience. The dreads fired on me as well. The psykers tried to gate in on me but I bounced their power. The rest moved up at maximum speed and prepared.
On my turn i blew up the dreadknight, his midfield rhinos and the guys inside of both. At this stage at end of round 3 he had his psyker unit, a rhino on my objective three, dread and command group on one and his psychic shrieks were going to be minimally effective given JSJ. Seeing that his next round would be little more than moving at maximum speed into a meat grinder, he conceded. There simply was no Grey Knight victory today.
My observations here is that the plan was very scary to me and he had the opportunity to consume the middle of the board in rounds one and 2. His lack of surety as to where I might end up was a critical thing. I felt that dominating the center and launching from there would have allowed the grey knights to better handle me. Most games I have played AS a Grey Knight have had, first and foremost, the goal of massing power midfield and unleashing it like the Wave Motion Gun from Star Blazers.
Anywho, we talked afterwards and he may have a bit meaner list yet in store for our next encounter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 06:16:14
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Had a rematch. He altered his list. Added a bunch more Psychic Shriek throwers from henchmen in rhinos instead of his interceptors. He had a couple objective grabbing strike squads, two sreads, two dreadknights and tried the force weapon shooting gun to take out my riptides with. So very much more tailored to kill me.
THIS time it was Hammer and Anvil, The Scouring. I opted to go second again. I deployed my (now) more fearsome Piranha near his objective 3 and in range of all three. I placed the perfunctory gunrig way back and to the center. Time to go.
He swooshed forwad in rhinos to take objectives. He had to kill two units. His Dreadknight shunted to kill the Gunrig(one of his objectives). His Dreadnought tried to kill the piranha (for another) but managed to blow only a seeker missile off of it. On my turn I immobikized his Rhino w the piranha.
Turn two his strike squad jumped in to help with killing the Gunrig. They got it done. Pirahna also died.
My entire army showed up on the left flank save for Fire Warriors which took residence in the Gunrig while the others pushed towards his objective three where once my Piranha had been. I killed the rhino and henchman on objective 2 midboard, his Dreadknight, his offending Strike Squad and waited for his retibution.
Turn 3 the Dreadknight tried to kill the Riptide with Force shots, but failed despite hitting well due to prescience. The dreads fired on me as well. The psykers tried to gate in on me but I bounced their power. The rest moved up at maximum speed and prepared.
On my turn i blew up the dreadknight, his midfield rhinos and the guys inside of both. At this stage at end of round 3 he had his psyker unit, a rhino on my objective three, dread and command group on one and his psychic shrieks were going to be minimally effective given JSJ. Seeing that his next round would be little more than moving at maximum speed into a meat grinder, he conceded. There simply was no Grey Knight victory today.
My observations here is that the plan was very scary to me and he had the opportunity to consume the middle of the board in rounds one and 2. His lack of surety as to where I might end up was a critical thing. I felt that dominating the center and launching from there would have allowed the grey knights to better handle me. Most games I have played AS a Grey Knight have had, first and foremost, the goal of massing power midfield and unleashing it like the Wave Motion Gun from Star Blazers.
Anywho, we talked afterwards and he may have a bit meaner list yet in store for our next encounter.
hmm yeah psilencers are just bad... cool weapon though. hoping for you to roll a 1 on your 2+ armor save and fail FNP (if you have it) is just a huge gamble.
He is better off running demon hammer + torrent flamer and putting himself in a position to charge you turn 2.
Hey Tau players, looking to join your ranks soon, just finishing off my army. Just wondering, how do you guys feel you fare against Tyranids at the moment? And I mean against non Flyer spam nids (2x Flyrant + ground force Nids)?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 15:11:29
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2016/04/25 15:16:37
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
There is no FnP vs ID. If the Riptide rolls a 1 on it's 2+ save versus an active Psilencer, the Riptide is removed from the game. Tau Riptide spam is the only reason why the GK meta has shifted to Psilencers, a weapon generally held as terrible at best that can instant death MCs on a failed armor save.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
2016/04/25 15:37:24
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
jeffersonian000 wrote: There is no FnP vs ID. If the Riptide rolls a 1 on it's 2+ save versus an active Psilencer, the Riptide is removed from the game. Tau Riptide spam is the only reason why the GK meta has shifted to Psilencers, a weapon generally held as terrible at best that can instant death MCs on a failed armor save.
SJ
Yeah totally a "DOH!" moment there for me.
Even still... that is a lot to bank on where I think your better off preparing to go into combat.
12 * (2/3) * (1/6) * (1/6) => 0.2
That is a pretty small chance to gamble on.. because when you lose that gamble.. your nem dread is dead.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SHUPPET wrote: Hey Tau players, looking to join your ranks soon, just finishing off my army. Just wondering, how do you guys feel you fare against Tyranids at the moment? And I mean against non Flyer spam nids (2x Flyrant + ground force Nids)?
Nids are not an issue.. everything we have can take skyfire upgrades.. Flyrant spam is welcomed because all our MCs are 2+ armor anyway or 2+ shrouded. Dakka Nids Can't out dakka Tau.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 15:38:46
SHUPPET wrote: Hey Tau players, looking to join your ranks soon, just finishing off my army. Just wondering, how do you guys feel you fare against Tyranids at the moment? And I mean against non Flyer spam nids (2x Flyrant + ground force Nids)?
We fare incredibly well against ground-tyranids. We specialize at killing infantry and the droves and we will make those monstrous creatures fail their saves. We have a plethora of str 6 and str 7 shooting (and str 5 ap 5 that ignore cover and line of sight for the troops). And if you do plan on playing against flyrants, a heavy burst cannon riptide with velocity tracker (skyfire) will drop them out of the sky.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 15:42:46
7000
5000
1000
3000
2016/04/25 19:36:49
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Another thing to consider with Psilencers is that GK have pretty easy access to misfortune. If they manage to get it off Riptides get real sad, real fast.
2016/04/25 21:17:05
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
SHUPPET wrote: Hey Tau players, looking to join your ranks soon, just finishing off my army. Just wondering, how do you guys feel you fare against Tyranids at the moment? And I mean against non Flyer spam nids (2x Flyrant + ground force Nids)?
Nids are not an issue.. everything we have can take skyfire upgrades.. Flyrant spam is welcomed because all our MCs are 2+ armor anyway or 2+ shrouded. Dakka Nids Can't out dakka Tau.
I'm saying, specifically not Flying Nids, only 2 Flyrants
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 21:17:29
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2016/04/25 21:19:58
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Misfortune + Prescience + Psilencer? Nice. Yeah and he could easily have rolled it. He has a lot of rolls. His Shrieks were devastating in our fuirst matchup and he brought MORe to the party this time. So he came to kill those Riptides for sure. But the Shunt had one problem in our game referenced above: I had a sea of Tau soldiers he couldnt shunt on top of (on purpose) so his chances of shunting into charge range were next to nil. He took his shot and it didn't pay off for him.
Ironically all the Ghostkeels ever got to fire was their two Fusion Blasters once for obvious reasons. My Pathfinders did WORK with their Carbines though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 21:22:19
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7000
5000
1000
3000 