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2016/05/09 17:25:46
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
i said it before, but that was a few pages back my wing is as follows: 3x heavy burst cannons, SMS, counter fire, early warning. Its cheap, throws dice, and is brutal in overwatch too.
hey man, how useful do you find the counterfire? Has it ever saved a Riptide from assault? How often does it make enough of an impact to stop a Riptide getting tarpitted? I'm considering it too just wondering how practical it is, or is it just something you take because its cheap as chips and nice when it works?
I run it on everything now i will be honest. All my ghostkeel have EWO and Counterfire.. riptides I stopped running stims, and now all take counterfire.
Especially for the wing I find it super useful. remember supporting overwatch is within 6" which you are going to be in anyway for the nova reroll. Lets just look at the math..
36 s6 shots -> 12 hits (compared to 6)
12 TL s5 shots (SMS for me) -> 6-7 hits (compared to 3-4)
The more hits means the more wounds.. I can't really say whether or not I would have lost a game without it.. but I have wiped maulerfiends out in overwatch. And chances are I would have lost a riptide on that one lol!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should also state.. if you have markerlights near by.. that 1 markerlight that hit now even better!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/09 17:33:30
So I been thinking of how to explain why i think it would benefit you to run this. I don't know your list off hand but I imagine your running 2 solo Ions with Stims? I am just going to assume that right now
So right now your sitting at 440 points. Let's drop the Stims, and add a third riptide. 555 points (assuming Ion again), only 115 points more then what you were already paying, and what did you gain? Reroll Nova, Cascading fire, Hailfire.
For no tax and 115 extra points you gained some amazing abilities, that I think makes those 115 points back easily.
Me personally I run Heavy Burst Cannons, but that is my taste. Either way, your sitting pretty with a scary unit. So you have this scary unit throwing pie plates for days and meanwhile you have all your outflanking business grabbing backfield objectives and being ignored because the focus is on this center highly offensive unit.
If the opponent rushes them with all these powerful CC units, or focuses all their good shooting on them, that is good for the rest of your army, because your pathfinders can't hold up to the beating that these boys can.
I think right now, if your running 2 riptides, its silly not to run 3 in a wing for the extra buffs they get.
Anyway my 2cents.
Thanks. And thanks for the constructive tone in this one. Yes I run two as solo. I don't use Stims on the Riptides currently though, so that wouldn't be an area for points savings. So mine are a bit cheaper for what its worth. My list was listed earlier, but here it is again:
I am very aware of the third Riptide and what it brings. I am. I read the same book you all do. In the current list, there aren't points of it. I know that it would be good. It isn't better than the Ghostkeel Formation i might have to give up nor the Infiltration Cadre I would have to give up! That was my point in the beginning if all this: That something is super awesome isn't a reason to kind of blow up the rest of your concept for.
At 1850 I lose a Ghostkeel which is fine. Almost everything in the list is mandatory. Possible cuts include the Pathfinder units sizes (but those are intentional to get the free missiles), or slimming down the Stealthsuits (but they are quite the bullt hoses and are really effective with a Commander attached to one of them). Another possibility is the Gunrig, though its mobile cover and firepower are a lot cheaper than the Riptide (also much easier to kill) but at half the price... Still, the Gunrig would certainly be expendable if I took a third Riptide.
So to take the third Riptide here I would maybe drop a Gunrig (but man, a Land Raiders in a Wulfen lists is a thing that is very scary and that Gunrig is one of the few answers...) for 85 points and then like three Stealthsuits from the optimized Stealth Cadre (which would kind of hurt because they put out a ton more volume of fire over time than even the Riptide does, albeit they dont have the big cannon the Riptide does!). I mean that wouldn't be an unacceptable change there. It does make those Stealthsuits awfully easy to delete and in malestrom, killing a Unit comes up a lot as an objective. I think the ability to take objectives is the same sicne both can DS and both can JSJ, but the Stealthsuits add a dimension by infiltrating and that has been a valuable asset too. Given that in this list, the Riptide will likely be Deep Striking, the Infiltration ability then makes for a pretty attractive early game tool.
As you can see, there is a real tradeoff there. Give up some pretty good volume of fire in order to get more qualitative fire and risk losing units easier (and therefore maelstrom points) while ablating enemy fire less. OOOOR make it harder to kill units in general and accept a slight downgrade in firepower for that fortitude plus add infiltration with a pretty scary bullethose to the toolbag?
It's a good debate to be had.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I didn't "disrespect your ideas" in any way, I countered it with logical reasoning and explained why I disagreed. If you find this disrespectful, you need to move out of your safespace, or not bother posting opinions if you can't handle any counter responses.
Yes, my diagram was massively out of proportion - its ridiculous that you are still whining about this. I literally spent over an hour just making those 2 pics as a visual representation, and said multiple times they are not made accurately. Most Battle reports do not even go to the extent of effort that I did for this, you have absolutely no reason to complain here, I now regret making the pictures up to begin with.
The only thing "improbable" you've been able to point at with my set-up was the number of Riptides, yet since then there has been multiple people discussing 9 Riptide builds and even someone who took 10 Riptides at Adepticon. So once again, you are indisputably wrong. Also, the entire test of this army was the strength of Riptide Wings against your list that supposedly eats them for breakfast, which it quite resoundingly did not.
No, I didn't play by myself - I played with a very real opponent, using a combination of both our collections, and some size equivalent proxys models to play out this battle. We went to a lot of effort to make it as such, this is no problem because we had fun playing out the match and intend to do it for further conflicts relevant opinions relevant to our armies - however, next time we would appreciate a scenario a little less stupidly one-sided.
The only one moving the goalposts is you, multiple times, on practically every statement you've made, and this has been absolutely cemented with each further response.
And for someone talking about people disrespecting other peoples skill and opinions, you are being awful liberal with the use of the word moron to describe the dark eldar player who's plays you disagree with, especially when a.) its you who was wrong b.) the person you are debating has been polite and calm about the whole thing.
After my last post I'd told myself I wasn't going to reply to you anymore, but seriously this post was just too provocative to ignore. Just do everyone a favour, and please just drop it, nobody wants to continue this idiotic "debate" that no longer even counts as one at this point and I don't want to continue being made a part of it. You are the equivalent of a lawyer still yammering on to jury, after the defendant has already been tried, found guilty, and executed. The verdict is already out on this one. Lets just move on for everyone's sake. Please.
You took the time. I guess i will.
You absolutely did show disrespect. You can say otherwise. That's fine. Dismissive behavior is disrespect in every place I know of.
No ones whining about your drawing being flawed. Weak sauce. I'm observing it. You seem to be claiming a victory here but it sounds like whoever this "person" you played was would benefit from seeing what i posted so he can counter you better. You ASKED for input and when you got it, ya' didn't like it. Shocker. I even provided detailed schematics to show you what your opponent might have tried instead of this two pronged death march into the maw of the beast. So now you're trying to appeal to higher authority to claim a victory but you don't even seem bothered that your worthy opponent made the error in both deployment, first turn move AND in the way he placed his Grotesques after being blown out. How does this not interest you? It's pretty salient and to make your own case as well as possible, you need this kind of counterpoint to improve upon it.
You don't own nine Riptides and I will wager among Tau Generals the vast majority dont. Most dont even own six (though at least I have actually SEEN that kind of list)! Nine auto loses to Obsec. It auto loses in the form you have it. So you can sling as many dice as you want and I need ONE figure to claim the primary Objective! I shouldn't have to explain to you why that makes this list improbable and rare even if you would someday be willing to run the gauntlet with it. But here we are, explaining it to you. LIKE the Necron Decurion, even a Militarum Tempestus force can beat it because you, like the pure Decurion, simply can't take anything from them but kills. So yes. It is an improbable tournament list. That is why Tau Generals take six at the most, and not nine, when they do this. They comprehend their peril and incorporate other things. With this Dark Eldar list for example, it has the same problem. It HAS to kill OR TRAP all the Obsec first (If there is any!) if it even wants a chance or it has to play tertiaries for close wins. I understand that about this Dark Eldar list. Fortunately, it works because I can assert positional dominance on them. I have to sort of blockade people off with the list and trap them to keep them from objectives. Its a bad limitation to have and its why mine ALSO is unusual and calling it anything BUT an unusual army is disingenuous. It is and most people won't do it. They'll play it like your opponent did, and say "wowa...no way. Not doing that list" after cleaning up his models. I have bneen fortunate enough to have the time i need to experiment and learn it more.
I started the conversation. So I know what MY point was, ShredderShards. I see your answer...and your answer with nine riptides didn't at any point address mine. So ergo, goalposts moved. What you did is said "Oh you dont' think a Third riptide is necessary? Well let me you what a NINE Riptide list can do to the same Dark Eldar army you smashed Wings with". Complete non sequiter. I told you hat happened against more conventional and far more likely Riptide iterations. Your counter was...this. I was helpful in explaining it so you could try it but I anticipated this kind of a report from you. You can see an agenda a mile away.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Got it, thanks a bunch. I'm of the same mindset. I love plasma! I plan on buying a third Riptide so I can do a Riptide Wing and then just run crises & stealth suits without the limitation concern from Riptides. I was going to use the new Breacher teams in devilfish but... they seem a bit cost restrictive.
Breachers are great, the problem is their movement. Running them in devilfish is required. Unfortunately that means that your looking at a ~200 point unit minimum. When I run them I like teams of 8 (just my preference). The Hunter Cadre run+shoot is nice cause it helps get them into that 6/3 profile range. Just make sure they have support nearby. They are still fire warriors and ap4 is not great for survival!
I know you don't want ghostkeel, but they are pretty amazing too. And the ghostkeel wing can add some really nice army survival through their stealth bubbles.
I don't want the Stormsurge. I'm an old school Tau player that had stopped playing them for awhile and the big Stormsurges just don't feel fluffy to me. The Ghostkeels however feel right in line with the Tau! I forgot to mention I have some Broadsides too for saturation fire with HYMP. But you've given me a good path forward, so thanks!
2016/05/09 20:29:07
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
SHUPPET wrote: Moving on from this argument but on a related note, I've been looking at 9 Riptides for a while myself.
Does anyone have any opinion on how to do them? ITC rules, so only 3 detachments.
Personally I don't like clustering Riptides into multiple units so I'm playing with taking 3 Wings as my entire detachments. As far as upgrades go, I was looking at taking 1x shield drone on each, for a total of 9 drones and 9 Riptides, to lessen the blow of grav, because nothing else seems too remarkable. Counterfire is sick but at the end of the day it even if you overwatch down half the squad, if they make it to combat your Riptide is out of the game anyway, so it seems kinda situational. The problem is, Shield drones slow down the boost move which is so key to the army.
EWO seems nice but situational, might use it to fill up any extra points though. Taking FNP is pointless unless you can grab it on everyone, because they are likely just going to focus the ones who don't have it.
A big part of me is thinking of just taking 10 Riptides instead (1x 2man unit), putting EWO on 4 of them, VT on 1 of them, and Split Fire on the one unit of 2. 1850 points, bam. Who needs markers
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't take 3 riptide wings because you're only allowed to duplicate a formation once.
2016/05/09 22:13:13
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Been thinking about running Breachers, has anyone ran them with an ethereal? I mean its probably crazy but Assualt 3 srt6 ap3 would be pretty vicious. Of course it would be subject to return fire and would have the ethereal in the line of fire.
Viable?
2016/05/09 22:48:51
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
I didn't "disrespect your ideas" in any way, I countered it with logical reasoning and explained why I disagreed. If you find this disrespectful, you need to move out of your safespace, or not bother posting opinions if you can't handle any counter responses.
Yes, my diagram was massively out of proportion - its ridiculous that you are still whining about this. I literally spent over an hour just making those 2 pics as a visual representation, and said multiple times they are not made accurately. Most Battle reports do not even go to the extent of effort that I did for this, you have absolutely no reason to complain here, I now regret making the pictures up to begin with.
The only thing "improbable" you've been able to point at with my set-up was the number of Riptides, yet since then there has been multiple people discussing 9 Riptide builds and even someone who took 10 Riptides at Adepticon. So once again, you are indisputably wrong. Also, the entire test of this army was the strength of Riptide Wings against your list that supposedly eats them for breakfast, which it quite resoundingly did not.
No, I didn't play by myself - I played with a very real opponent, using a combination of both our collections, and some size equivalent proxys models to play out this battle. We went to a lot of effort to make it as such, this is no problem because we had fun playing out the match and intend to do it for further conflicts relevant opinions relevant to our armies - however, next time we would appreciate a scenario a little less stupidly one-sided.
The only one moving the goalposts is you, multiple times, on practically every statement you've made, and this has been absolutely cemented with each further response.
And for someone talking about people disrespecting other peoples skill and opinions, you are being awful liberal with the use of the word moron to describe the dark eldar player who's plays you disagree with, especially when a.) its you who was wrong b.) the person you are debating has been polite and calm about the whole thing.
After my last post I'd told myself I wasn't going to reply to you anymore, but seriously this post was just too provocative to ignore. Just do everyone a favour, and please just drop it, nobody wants to continue this idiotic "debate" that no longer even counts as one at this point and I don't want to continue being made a part of it. You are the equivalent of a lawyer still yammering on to jury, after the defendant has already been tried, found guilty, and executed. The verdict is already out on this one. Lets just move on for everyone's sake. Please.
You took the time. I guess i will.
You absolutely did show disrespect. You can say otherwise. That's fine. Dismissive behavior is disrespect in every place I know of.
No ones whining about your drawing being flawed. Weak sauce. I'm observing it. You seem to be claiming a victory here but it sounds like whoever this "person" you played was would benefit from seeing what i posted so he can counter you better. You ASKED for input and when you got it, ya' didn't like it. Shocker. I even provided detailed schematics to show you what your opponent might have tried instead of this two pronged death march into the maw of the beast. So now you're trying to appeal to higher authority to claim a victory but you don't even seem bothered that your worthy opponent made the error in both deployment, first turn move AND in the way he placed his Grotesques after being blown out. How does this not interest you? It's pretty salient and to make your own case as well as possible, you need this kind of counterpoint to improve upon it.
You don't own nine Riptides and I will wager among Tau Generals the vast majority dont. Most dont even own six (though at least I have actually SEEN that kind of list)! Nine auto loses to Obsec. It auto loses in the form you have it. So you can sling as many dice as you want and I need ONE figure to claim the primary Objective! I shouldn't have to explain to you why that makes this list improbable and rare even if you would someday be willing to run the gauntlet with it. But here we are, explaining it to you. LIKE the Necron Decurion, even a Militarum Tempestus force can beat it because you, like the pure Decurion, simply can't take anything from them but kills. So yes. It is an improbable tournament list. That is why Tau Generals take six at the most, and not nine, when they do this. They comprehend their peril and incorporate other things. With this Dark Eldar list for example, it has the same problem. It HAS to kill OR TRAP all the Obsec first (If there is any!) if it even wants a chance or it has to play tertiaries for close wins. I understand that about this Dark Eldar list. Fortunately, it works because I can assert positional dominance on them. I have to sort of blockade people off with the list and trap them to keep them from objectives. Its a bad limitation to have and its why mine ALSO is unusual and calling it anything BUT an unusual army is disingenuous. It is and most people won't do it. They'll play it like your opponent did, and say "wowa...no way. Not doing that list" after cleaning up his models. I have bneen fortunate enough to have the time i need to experiment and learn it more.
I started the conversation. So I know what MY point was, ShredderShards. I see your answer...and your answer with nine riptides didn't at any point address mine. So ergo, goalposts moved. What you did is said "Oh you dont' think a Third riptide is necessary? Well let me you what a NINE Riptide list can do to the same Dark Eldar army you smashed Wings with". Complete non sequiter. I told you hat happened against more conventional and far more likely Riptide iterations. Your counter was...this. I was helpful in explaining it so you could try it but I anticipated this kind of a report from you. You can see an agenda a mile away.
You'd lose sleep if you didn't get the last word, wouldn't you.
We read the conversation. You said a third Riptide is a bad choice, he said that a third Riptide to make the Wing is the most efficient unit points can buy after getting the first 2, you posted some list in return that apparently destroys lists with the extra Riptide, blah blah blah, and he posted a BatRep proving that at the very least, the Riptide's are not the the unit costing you games. You specifically said their mobility didn't make a difference, and regardless of how many mistakes you think were made in his BatRep, it showed that the mobility makes a big difference.
Whatever you think it is you are doing, with all this misdirection, the accusations of moving the goalposts and whatever other excuses you've used so far, is not convincing anyone of anything.
You can get the last word on me, and just repeat the same post you've been making for like 4 pages straight row now getting gradually ruder each time, but just repeating the same thing over and over doesn't change a thing. This really isn't worth the length its been dragged out to and I feel like only you would take it to this level Jancoran. Now go on, take the last word, tell me how his BatRep was so inaccurate and how the list was unfair and whatever else. Shredder, please for everyone's sake don't bother responding to him again - he will not drop it until you do.
SHUPPET wrote: Moving on from this argument but on a related note, I've been looking at 9 Riptides for a while myself.
Does anyone have any opinion on how to do them? ITC rules, so only 3 detachments.
Personally I don't like clustering Riptides into multiple units so I'm playing with taking 3 Wings as my entire detachments. As far as upgrades go, I was looking at taking 1x shield drone on each, for a total of 9 drones and 9 Riptides, to lessen the blow of grav, because nothing else seems too remarkable. Counterfire is sick but at the end of the day it even if you overwatch down half the squad, if they make it to combat your Riptide is out of the game anyway, so it seems kinda situational. The problem is, Shield drones slow down the boost move which is so key to the army.
EWO seems nice but situational, might use it to fill up any extra points though. Taking FNP is pointless unless you can grab it on everyone, because they are likely just going to focus the ones who don't have it.
A big part of me is thinking of just taking 10 Riptides instead (1x 2man unit), putting EWO on 4 of them, VT on 1 of them, and Split Fire on the one unit of 2. 1850 points, bam. Who needs markers
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't take 3 riptide wings because you're only allowed to duplicate a formation once.
You are right - I guess 2 wings is the maximum, which means you have 3 "overlap" Riptides minimum to slot into other units. I guess multi-model Riptide units are inevitable.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/05/09 23:05:19
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2016/05/09 23:32:24
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
BrotherGecko wrote: Been thinking about running Breachers, has anyone ran them with an ethereal? I mean its probably crazy but Assualt 3 srt6 ap3 would be pretty vicious. Of course it would be subject to return fire and would have the ethereal in the line of fire.
Viable?
I actually posted a list with them here some pages back that took advantage of the Ghostkeel Wing's Stealth bubble. I've since tweaked that list a touch to the following (off the top of my head):
Ghostkeel Wing
3 Ghostkeels - fusion, CIR, EWO on all, 1 VT - 455
1847 total
Basically, you just drive your Devilfish around, dropping Breachers wherever convenient and hopefully screening them with your 2+ cover box. You can also herd stuff into flamer position for your Y'Vahra, if you so desire. The Surge is there for Wraithknights, mainly, since the original iteration of this list had 2 Y'Vahras and pretty well mauled Knights. Ghostkeels are just awesome, and the Stealth bubble certainly doesn't hurt.
2016/05/10 02:10:30
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
So I have a 800pt tourney coming up and I'm trying to get back into the Tau game (been out since 5th) and so some help if available would be appreciated.
The army comp is as follows: may only use one detachment or formation, only one model with 4+ wounds, only 1 squad of multi-wound models or one vehicle with 13+ AV and no ForfeWorld or Lords of War. Its supposed to be a "friendly" tournament but every one that I've partaked in has at least 3 Eldar players deliberately ignoring friendly and one Necron player that, "just didn't realize how powerful their army was". So I'd ideal like to keep up with those types, I can pull my own blows against the friendly gamers.
I have 1 ghostkeel and 3 crisis suits. I'm eye balling the starter box as I want to run a 6 man crisis mini bomb. However, I can not decide load out for squat.
I was thinking using Farsight Enclave:
2x4 pathfinder squads
Ethereal
1x10 Breacher squad w/shas'ui, guardian drone
Devilfish w/ SmS and DP 6 Crisis w/ shas'vre, Plas, Flamer on everybody and neuro web jammer
Ghostkeel w/ fusion collider, fusion blasters
(Everybody is bonded)
I've considered stealthsuits also instead of pathfinders also.
I'm not sure how this will play or if my suits have the right weapons .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 02:41:45
2016/05/10 03:13:12
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Anyone have an opinion on Shadowsun? Is she worth the $50 price tag and the points in an army list? I'm just starting Tau and purchased the Codex and a Commander today and would like to know what else to get.
6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..."
2016/05/10 03:52:48
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Retrogamer0001 wrote: Anyone have an opinion on Shadowsun? Is she worth the $50 price tag and the points in an army list? I'm just starting Tau and purchased the Codex and a Commander today and would like to know what else to get.
I do rather enjoy using her. And Tau can be relatively easily and competitively be built if you stick to the start collecting boxes. Shadowsun as warlord allows her crisis squad to move 3d6, and another way to look at her price is buying shield generators for each model in the squad that she joins. Also, the Command Drone is great when used with a unit of HBC riptides. The IA Blast is no longer rerolled with the proposed FAQ, but the ones on the NOVA'd HBC Tides make it a lot better (and if you are using 3 tides in a single squad rather than a Wing) and make them effectively BS5 (without markerlight support).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 03:53:21
'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Retrogamer0001 wrote: Anyone have an opinion on Shadowsun? Is she worth the $50 price tag and the points in an army list? I'm just starting Tau and purchased the Codex and a Commander today and would like to know what else to get.
He's amazing with Crysis suits
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2016/05/10 11:29:17
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Retrogamer0001 wrote: Anyone have an opinion on Shadowsun? Is she worth the $50 price tag and the points in an army list? I'm just starting Tau and purchased the Codex and a Commander today and would like to know what else to get.
Wait until they finalize the FAQ. They have a little bit of a contradiction currently, but depending on which way they swing, it could make her unusable.
FAQ in question (TLDR) Q: Can a unit choose not to use their infiltrate special rule and deploy normally? A: Yes but then.. Q: Can an IC with infiltrate join a unit without infiltrate during deployment? A: No. An IC with infiltrate may never join units for any action including outflank, deepstrike, etc during deployment.
I paraphrased.. but you get why this could be a bad thing, and they need to clarify further.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 11:29:28
Anyone have any recommendations for fighting against the likes of Chaos and KDK? I have one Riptide already, with three broadsides, two boxes of Pathfinders, and a few Fire Warrior boxes. Should I grab a few Sky Rays to help with horde-style armies? Or stay away from tanks?
6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..."
2016/05/10 16:47:19
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Retrogamer0001 wrote: Anyone have any recommendations for fighting against the likes of Chaos and KDK? I have one Riptide already, with three broadsides, two boxes of Pathfinders, and a few Fire Warrior boxes. Should I grab a few Sky Rays to help with horde-style armies? Or stay away from tanks?
Tanks are a no go against horde armies unless you can lay down pie plates. The key is to concentrate your fire on one piece of his army so that you can open room for you to move your army to in an attempt to kite as long as possible.
Against KDK, you will have max 3 shooting phases before you are charged. That is if you have first turn, second turn and overwatch. If you go second, then you are looking at two shooting phases (first turn and overwatch). This is very important to know becuase you need to prepare to screen your forces.
For me and my NOVA list that I have been practicing. I run the firestream formation and screen my riptide wing with drones and pirahna. Generally I pop hailfire turn 1. Why? because they can't scout and assault, so regardless of them being in your face it doesnt matter. If you go second, that is more situational.. maybe you need to be able to move, maybe not. But the riptide HBC+SMS in hailfire can really put down some fleshhounds. If you run riptides, and you expect to get charged, nova your HBC because you can still use that in overwatch, ripple fire does not work.
There is nothing that Chaos can throw down that Tau can't handle. KDK is really the only threat because of the speed and assault.
Retrogamer0001 wrote: Anyone have an opinion on Shadowsun? Is she worth the $50 price tag and the points in an army list? I'm just starting Tau and purchased the Codex and a Commander today and would like to know what else to get.
No model is worth a $50 price tag. Having said that, Shadowsun is very cool. Being able to AUTOMATICALLY pass Look out Sir attempts when she wants to? Sweet! It's really quite helpful and lets you put her at the head of the spear. A unit rolling around with three 18" meltas guns that are accurate is kinda awesome. making them 2+ saves and autpmatically getting 3D6 on JSJ to ensure it? i mean there is a whole lot to like about her. I used her in my first test with the Optimized Stealth Cadre and it was boss. Took out a Superheavy with her unit (well...finished it off, I think it had three Hull points on it already).
I also think if you are a fluff bunny, that she is pretty cool to have in there.She can even split away from the group if need be. I liked using her.
SHUPPET wrote: Moving on from this argument but on a related note, I've been looking at 9 Riptides for a while myself.
Does anyone have any opinion on how to do them? ITC rules, so only 3 detachments.
Personally I don't like clustering Riptides into multiple units so I'm playing with taking 3 Wings as my entire detachments. As far as upgrades go, I was looking at taking 1x shield drone on each, for a total of 9 drones and 9 Riptides, to lessen the blow of grav, because nothing else seems too remarkable. Counterfire is sick but at the end of the day it even if you overwatch down half the squad, if they make it to combat your Riptide is out of the game anyway, so it seems kinda situational. The problem is, Shield drones slow down the boost move which is so key to the army.
EWO seems nice but situational, might use it to fill up any extra points though. Taking FNP is pointless unless you can grab it on everyone, because they are likely just going to focus the ones who don't have it.
A big part of me is thinking of just taking 10 Riptides instead (1x 2man unit), putting EWO on 4 of them, VT on 1 of them, and Split Fire on the one unit of 2. 1850 points, bam. Who needs markers
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't take 3 riptide wings because you're only allowed to duplicate a formation once.
Like I said: absurd example to even use to make his point. It is what it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 16:48:24
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
So I know I was asking questions before but I saw the new death from the skies book is coming out? I actually have 2 NIB flyers that I haven't put together because I read they just aren't even worth using.
Does the new flyer book change this?
2016/05/10 20:29:33
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't take 3 riptide wings because you're only allowed to duplicate a formation once.
Like I said: absurd example to even use to make his point. It is what it is.
Except that's not what it is, as he took 2 Riptide Wings not 3 so his list was perfectly legal, and you are just looking for whatever excuse you can get as per usual, and the comment you are responding to me is ME spitballing on how best to build such a list.
Go away.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/05/10 20:31:31
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2016/05/11 01:44:19
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't take 3 riptide wings because you're only allowed to duplicate a formation once.
Like I said: absurd example to even use to make his point. It is what it is.
Except that's not what it is, as he took 2 Riptide Wings not 3 so his list was perfectly legal, and you are just looking for whatever excuse you can get as per usual, and the comment you are responding to me is ME spitballing on how best to build such a list.
Go away.
Even better. Only two charges to make?
Lol. You go away. This list idoesnt address the original question and it IS absurd. Saying otherwise is delusional. You need more straw if you're going to grasp this hard.
It's absurd. Buy it if it isnt and play it.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Anyone recommend using the R'varna or Y'vahra battlesuits from FW? Are they strictly better at any one thing as opposed to the basic Riptide?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 02:15:18
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2016/05/11 02:44:36
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Lol. You go away. This list idoesnt address the original question and it IS absurd. Saying otherwise is delusional. You need more straw if you're going to grasp this hard.
It's absurd. Buy it if it isnt and play it.
pretty sure I've looked into the tactica of it much deeper than you have, pretty sure when it come's to "grasps" you've already made it very clear just how weak how weak yours actually is, and I'm also pretty sure that what I'm currently talking about has nothing to do with your abysmal little argument, I'm just trying to discuss the best way to build a Riptide list, and you are just doing exactly what YOU were complaining about before, and gaking on people's ideas just because of how narrow minded you are. You are definitively trolling at this point Jancoran, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped quoting me with this nonsense when I specifically said what I'm talking about has nothing to do with your opinion that absolutely everyone is absolutely presto on. You think DE beat Tau, we get it, and you somehow think that battlerep like 3 pages ago didn't prove otherwise, we get it. We just don't care. Let us discuss Tau tactica please.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/05/11 02:49:48
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2016/05/11 03:18:20
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
I wasn't pointing that out to resume the argument from before. I was just showing that there would be a problem with the proposed list which did not seem to be involved with the Coven vs Riptide debate.
Personally, I think the riptide wing (even a single one) trumps the coven formations and I say that as a player who uses my coven stuff far more than I use my Tau stuff.
I'm sad about the FAQ because I was currently building a breacher heavy team in devilfish to rush up the board and unload with support from an ethereal. Now it doesn't seem feasible because the Ethereal can't extend his invocation from inside the transport and I can't have the devilfish jink as they approach the enemy because the breachers will end up snapshooting too. I liked the idea of using the Tau detachment and letting the devilfish, drones, and breachers count as the 3 separate units needed to gain a +1 bs and with a drone net I would have been able to get plenty of markerlights around for all the units to share and ignore cover with. Alas, I was too slow building it I guess...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/11 10:11:08
2016/05/11 10:15:40
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
Where's stated you can't take more than 2 of the same Formation? The only limitation I know is for Formations and Detachments that require a model in it to be your Warlord (you can have only one of those).
Also, Shadowsun cannot join any unit in deployment that has no Infiltrate rule.
SHUPPET wrote: Hey guys I haven't had a chance to delve through the FAQ bit by bit yet, what in there has affected us?
ArmchairArbiter wrote:So I know I was asking questions before but I saw the new death from the skies book is coming out? I actually have 2 NIB flyers that I haven't put together because I read they just aren't even worth using.
Does the new flyer book change this?
So this book does not make flyers OP. Now that is out of the way, it helps give them some neat things. I completely disagree with the dogfight minigame.. i originally thought it was a chart roll of thing, but now you would have to place them on a complete seperate table.. no thanks. I know my local group will not be using that portion of rules.
Otherwise, I think if you like flyers this book gives you some really neat stuff. And as it is written it looks like you can upgrade a flyer from any detachment into a wing. So you can benefit from your formation rules + wing rules. It is a misconception in my opinion that our flyers are bad; personally I think our flyers are well balanced, the problem is.. for the same points we have other better units (That is a codex issue, not a flyer issue). So I say! Run some flyers if you have them, and see if you like them.
Retrogamer0001 wrote:Anyone recommend using the R'varna or Y'vahra battlesuits from FW? Are they strictly better at any one thing as opposed to the basic Riptide?
They all have their strengths. Y'vahra is just dirty good right now. When the new book comes out for IA Tau, I imagine it is going to get toned down. The R'varna looks awesome, but I don't think he adds more then a normal ion riptide does. If FW releases a riptide wing equivalent and lets you take Y'vahra, oh man... my wallet will hurt..
ArmchairArbiter wrote:Ya'll need to quit arguing and answer these tactics questions lol.
Agreed!
Vector Strike wrote:Where's stated you can't take more than 2 of the same Formation? The only limitation I know is for Formations and Detachments that require a model in it to be your Warlord (you can have only one of those).
From the normal rules, you can have as many as yuo want. ITC specifically limits formation spam *cough* aspect host *cough* too a max of 2 of the same formation.
Regarding Shadowsun, I used her today in a full crisis suit unit with buffmander (inc iridium armour, Stims & vectored retro thrusters). Ran the crisis suits with all missile pods and target locks.
The 3d6 jet pack move definitely helps. Stealth and shrouding is very nice, although allot of ignore cover is flying about these days. I'll definitely continue trying her out.
Only wee issue was opponent brought his blood Angels, just not a fair fight at all really :-(
Last time we played it was a draigo star, so was surprised to face some vanilla blood angels! A crisis star and OSC, backed up by skyrays, might not be uber competitive, but enough to overpower older books. Anyone face this issue and how do you deal with it?
I offered to let my opponent choose the mission and placed all but one objective each in the midfield. Without having alternative models on hand, best I could really do.
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