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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Second Degree Murder wouldn't be eligible for the death penalty anyway, it's 10-life for that.

More info from the probable cause affidavits for the initial arrest:

According to the probable cause affidavit, officials say Chambers was suicidal at the time of the crash.

“Upon booking, defendant admitted to having a history of suicidal attempts and admitted to booking staff that she was suicidal at the time of the incident but not at the time of booking,” the affidavit reads.


http://kfor.com/2015/10/26/woman-accused-of-killing-4-people-at-osu-homecoming-parade-set-for-arraignment/

Of note: no mention of alcohol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 02:33:02


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
Or we, as a society, realize that unless you live in a small Alaskan fishing village you probably don't "need" a pilots license to get to work or buy groceries.


You don't need a car for that, it just makes it a lot more convenient. You can take a bus/taxi/etc, or even walk. And in places where that's not an option it's only that way because we as a society refuse to acknowledge that we have a problem.
.

Your serious? You dont need a car to do groceries? Let me tell you, it is near impossible to get any meaningful amount of groceries without a car. You wanna take 5 or 6 large bags on the bus(Maybe with like 2 kids cause dads off at the mine or something)
Face it. a car is needed in america, to get a job, to shop. to live life.


Plenty of people get groceries without a car, both in the US and throughout the world.

   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 d-usa wrote:
Second Degree Murder wouldn't be eligible for the death penalty anyway, it's 10-life for that.


Thanks for that.

Maybe they should have waited a bit to charge her.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 03:00:52


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Ouze wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
Second Degree Murder wouldn't be eligible for the death penalty anyway, it's 10-life for that.


Thanks for that.

Maybe they should have waited a bit to charge her.


Possibly charging her with something so they don't have to release her? Isn't there a maximum time they can hold you without a charge or did I watch too much Law & Order?
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Yeah, maybe they can upgrade the charges later if the facts bear it? Not really sure truthfully.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

Sounds like preliminary charges for the arraignment (bail) hearing with final charges to come later as the case prepares to go to trial.


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




There's always that small percentage that would have a difficult time getting groceries without a vehicle. Nothing is 100 percent true for 100 percent of the people. But in most cases people could walk. They just grew up not having to so don't want to. Or they just don't do it because they don't have too. Still when your forced to do something you'll find a way.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Of course a majority of people would find getting groceries to be a multiple hour ordeal just to get there and back without a car or other form of transportation.

I live a good 5 miles from the nearest grocery store. I once had to walk to and from the car service station a block away from it and it took me a good 45 minutes to walk one way. And that was without carrying anything. If I had to walk to get groceries it probably would have taken me a good hour and a half. And anything frozen or refrigerated would be pretty nasty by the time I got back.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Grey Templar wrote:
Of course a majority of people would find getting groceries to be a multiple hour ordeal just to get there and back without a car or other form of transportation.

I live a good 5 miles from the nearest grocery store. I once had to walk to and from the car service station a block away from it and it took me a good 45 minutes to walk one way. And that was without carrying anything. If I had to walk to get groceries it probably would have taken me a good hour and a half. And anything frozen or refrigerated would be pretty nasty by the time I got back.


In the US we also just end up getting a ton of groceries as well since most people shop once or twice a week. I find that in Germany people seem to only buy for a couple days at a time and make more frequent trips.

Now take the usual "I can make it in one trip" bag-carrying gymnastics that we all do from the driveway to the kitchen and imagine doing that for 5 miles .

My fingers turn blue just thinking about it...

Now the obvious answer would be that you would adjust and to more smaller trips instead of one weekly big one.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

But people in Germany don't live more than 10-15 minute walk/bus ride from the market. They don't have suburbs or semi-rural areas in any quantity like we do which makes your own vehicle much more important.

I'm out of sugar. In Europe, I could just pop out for a half hour and get it. In the US, its more like an hour total. So there is more incentive to make bigger trips.

And even in areas of the US where everything is in walking distance, grocery stores are actually quite rare. In urban centers most people buy food from convenience stores because super markets aren't profitable in dense urban areas.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 d-usa wrote:
Now take the usual "I can make it in one trip" bag-carrying gymnastics that we all do from the driveway to the kitchen and imagine doing that for 5 miles .


Or take a backpack instead of carrying the bags in your hands.

But really, the idea wasn't that removing cars and changing nothing else is a good idea, it was that removing cars would happen along with improving public transportation. So you aren't walking several miles to a store, you're taking a bus. And just maybe you're living closer to the store because nobody wants to buy houses in the subdivision sprawl and the developers have had to rethink their business model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 05:05:00


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





IL

Shopping for groceries while not having a car is like winning a free membership to the strongman gym. Just think about how buff and ripped you'll be after a few trips.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 05:12:12


Paulson Games parts are now at:
www.RedDogMinis.com 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Grey Templar wrote:
But people in Germany don't live more than 10-15 minute walk/bus ride from the market. They don't have suburbs or semi-rural areas in any quantity like we do which makes your own vehicle much more important.

I'm out of sugar. In Europe, I could just pop out for a half hour and get it. In the US, its more like an hour total. So there is more incentive to make bigger trips.

And even in areas of the US where everything is in walking distance, grocery stores are actually quite rare. In urban centers most people buy food from convenience stores because super markets aren't profitable in dense urban areas.


And that as well of course.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I don't know of any backpacks that would be decent at carrying home groceries.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in fr
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Relapse wrote:

Holy crap, I'll bet he was scared as hell. What happened after he woke up?.


I don't know. It was on an unfrequented road so nobody saw the car. I guess he just got it towed to the nearest town.


 Peregrine wrote:
nkelsch wrote:
Such an attitude basically would criminalize any health condition. "you have high blood sugar? you can't drive a vehicle legally now because you could potentially be a risk."


And that's exactly how it should be. If you can't safely drive a car then you shouldn't be allowed to. If you have high blood sugar (or whatever other condition you want to consider) and can demonstrate to a doctor that the problem is under control and does not present a safety risk then you can get a license with conditions attached (continuing treatment, etc). That's exactly what I have to go through to fly a tiny single-engine plane, so why should the operator of a vehicle that is much more likely to hurt someone be treated any differently? The only reason why we ignore blatant safety issues like this is that we, as a culture, seem to have decided that god has granted everyone the right to drive a car and that right can only be taken away under the most extreme circumstances.

And no, it doesn't criminalize any health condition. It criminalizes driving a car with them. Nobody is going to be thrown in jail merely for having a condition that would prevent them from driving safely.


Well, here in France the only health condition preventing someone to drive is a poor eyesight (less than 5/10 for both eyes). Well, maybe others, but this is the only one directly checked.
Preventing someone to drive would in most case condemn him/her to poverty and even unemployment in some cases anyway.

Scientia potentia est.

In girum imus nocte ecce et consumimur igni.
 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 paulson games wrote:
Shopping for groceries while not having a car is like winning a free membership to the strongman gym. Just think about how buff and ripped you'll be after a few trips.




Why is he straining so much? Corn Flakes aren't that heavy.


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

nkelsch wrote:

How many personal freedoms would need to be stripped from the ill or disabled to 'protect' society from them? Nevermind the forced incarceration of anyone on a drug with possible 'suicidal thoughts' as a side effect.

We will have to let the legal system run its course here and see what happened and what circumstances were involved... but this is why we don't do lynch mobs anymore and have due process.




Agreed on letting the legal system run it's course. Let's see what the courts/authorities find and disclose.

As for personal freedoms being stripped, driving in a privileged, not a constitutional right. If you are unfit to drive for any reason (vision, alzheimer's, loss of hand-eye coordination, feinting spells, severe reactions from various illnesses, frequent seizures, etc.) you SHOULD lose the privilege of driving until you get your gak together. Now, I still agree with you that a lynch mob should not make that decision, and we still don't know what happened in the OK incident fully.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/27 11:57:49


DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 kronk wrote:

As for personal freedoms being stripped, driving in a privileged, not a constitutional right. If you are unfit to drive for any reason (vision, alzheimer's, loss of hand-eye coordination, feinting spells, severe reactions from various illnesses, frequent seizures, etc.) you SHOULD lose the privilege of driving until you get your gak together. Now, I still agree with you that a lynch mob should not make that decision, and we still don't know what happened in the OK incident fully.


But considering 'the flu' can make anyone feint at any time and 90% of medications have side effects which COULD cause feinting or imparment, applying a string application can disenfranchise millions.

And even if there were stricter medical restrictions on driving, guess what? a 'first time' diabetic coma on someone newly diagnosed wouldn't be covered by it I bet.

Talk about captain hindsight.

And following the 'suicide' aspect. Virtually every drug on the market has 'possible suicidal thoughts' as a possible side effect. Are we going to restrict everyone on a prescribed drug which might have 'suicidal thoughts' as a side effect as a ban from driving? Let alone people with good old fashion undiagnosed and untreated depression that the second they seek help, we strip their licence? :Oh? you have been having depression symptoms? ok police, seize her licence, restrict her ability to exist in society and forever ban her from driving as the drugs to help treatment have a side effect of possible suicidal thoughts.

This is all Captain hindsight talk for a statistically low item which can't be protected against in a reasonable way without violating people's due process and right to have their individual situations identified. This is basically the reason abortion bans are illegal because every case is different and blanket laws based upon such 'might have a symptom of fainting or suicidal thoughts' denies due process.



My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

nkelsch wrote:


This is all Captain hindsight talk for a statistically low item which can't be protected against in a reasonable way without violating people's due process and right to have their individual situations identified. This is basically the reason abortion bans are illegal because every case is different and blanket laws based upon such 'might have a symptom of fainting or suicidal thoughts' denies due process.



Cute meme.

As for your CH talk, I my comment wasn't directed at this lady, per se. It was directed at people that have known impairments, which I'll gladly repeat (vision, alzheimer's, loss of hand-eye coordination, feinting spells, severe reactions from various illnesses, frequent seizures, etc.) that affect their ability to drive. It is not unreasonable to restrict, limit, or forbid people with significant health issues from getting behind the wheel of a 2,000 vehicle and endangering lives.

But you can feel free to post more pictures and not listen to what I'm saying.

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Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Plenty of people get groceries without a car, both in the US and throughout the world.
Does nobody do grocery deliveries in the US?
https://www.ocado.com/
All the supermarkets here are into it in a big way.

A bit more OT, we recently had a bin/refuse lorry crash into people waiting for a bus. IIRC, the driver was found to have had regular blackouts, and hid it from his employers.
Something similar for a 77-year-old bus driver. Inquest is ongoing.
This happens a lot....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 15:45:08


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Clubs around Coventry, UK https://discord.gg/6Gk7Xyh5Bf 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

Not that I know of? I mean, we have meals on wheels, but that's a charity for the sick/elderly who can't go out and buy food.

Edit: It is worth mentioning that the US is a hell of a lot bigger than the UK, so that wouldn't really be economically feasible in a lot of areas.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 15:42:34


Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

There are some places that deliver, but it's not a "big thing" here. The major grocery stores want you to come in and browse. The more time you spend in a store, the more money you spend in the store, or so went some study I read an article about that one time at the doctors.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

It's quite true. Extensive research goes into stuff like that, from how the groceries are set up, to what stuff they put right at the register.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/27 15:45:21


Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 kronk wrote:
nkelsch wrote:


This is all Captain hindsight talk for a statistically low item which can't be protected against in a reasonable way without violating people's due process and right to have their individual situations identified. This is basically the reason abortion bans are illegal because every case is different and blanket laws based upon such 'might have a symptom of fainting or suicidal thoughts' denies due process.



Cute meme.

As for your CH talk, I my comment wasn't directed at this lady, per se. It was directed at people that have known impairments, which I'll gladly repeat (vision, alzheimer's, loss of hand-eye coordination, feinting spells, severe reactions from various illnesses, frequent seizures, etc.) that affect their ability to drive. It is not unreasonable to restrict, limit, or forbid people with significant health issues from getting behind the wheel of a 2,000 vehicle and endangering lives.

But you can feel free to post more pictures and not listen to what I'm saying.


Let's implement oppressive and invasive oversight by our government to our personal freedoms to solve an issue which doesn't need solving due to a knee-jerk reaction to a situation which would not have even been impacted by such proposed ideas.

Who determines 'known imparments'? How do you regulate HIPAA and patient confidentiality inr egards to government issued IDs? How do you test for such imparments without breaching people's rights? Who makes the determinations? doctors? Bureaucrats? How frequent or risk of frequent does it need to be before it is a 'risk'? Is there a zero tolerance policy? Is simply being a possible symptom on medication enough?

There is no way to predict or judge every scenario and no way to do it without robbing people of personal privacy rights and due process.

My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA." 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Skinnereal wrote:
Plenty of people get groceries without a car, both in the US and throughout the world.
Does nobody do grocery deliveries in the US?
https://www.ocado.com/
All the supermarkets here are into it in a big way.


Its starting to appear in some places. But again I remind you of the large distances involved here. Its not very profitable to deliver $20 worth of groceries when your delivery stops might be 20+ minutes apart. Its really only a thing in a few cities. A huge chunk of our population lives in suburban or rural areas. And people who live in the suburbs almost certainly own a vehicle, usually multiple vehicles.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






nkelsch wrote:
Who determines 'known imparments'? How do you regulate HIPAA and patient confidentiality inr egards to government issued IDs? How do you test for such imparments without breaching people's rights? Who makes the determinations? doctors? Bureaucrats? How frequent or risk of frequent does it need to be before it is a 'risk'? Is there a zero tolerance policy? Is simply being a possible symptom on medication enough?

There is no way to predict or judge every scenario and no way to do it without robbing people of personal privacy rights and due process.


You seem to have missed it earlier, so I'll say it again: these things that you are objecting to have already been dealt with in the case of pilot's licenses. This is not a hypothetical situation we're describing, it's the real FAA medical policies currently in use. The only thing preventing us from simply applying the same policies to driver's licenses is the belief (right or wrong) that everyone should be allowed to drive a car regardless of how qualified they are to do it.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






So you want 90% of drivers off the road?
Let me guess, you are not part of that 90%
And who is part of the 90%?

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So you want 90% of drivers off the road?
Let me guess, you are not part of that 90%
And who is part of the 90%?


What are you talking about? 90% how?

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 kronk wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So you want 90% of drivers off the road?
Let me guess, you are not part of that 90%
And who is part of the 90%?


What are you talking about? 90% how?


He read this gem:

 Peregrine wrote:


The problem is that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we allow ourselves to fall back on the idea that everyone has a right to drive as an excuse for not fixing our car-dependent society then we're never going to do anything about the problem. The best thing for society would be for 90% of drivers to permanently lose their licenses, and for the government to face mass rioting if they don't fix our public transportation infrastructure.


Truly a wondrously well thought out point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 20:26:02


Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So you want 90% of drivers off the road?


I'd settle for less, if I thought that there could be any real support for improving public transportation without taking away most driver's licenses and forcing a situation where the government must fix the problem. If you can dismiss inadequate bus/train/etc service with a belief that only poor people need those things (and they're poor because they're lazy) then nothing will ever be done. There will only be demand for changes if the middle class and up actually feel the pain of inadequate public transportation and appallingly bad city planning, and that's never going to happen as long as we treat driving as a god-given right.

Let me guess, you are not part of that 90%


You guess wrong. I don't care about driving as long as I can get where I want to go without a car. Of course given that I managed the medical and training requirements (which are far stricter than any plausible driver's license equivalent) to get my pilot's license I'd be willing to bet that I could be in the 10% if I wanted to. But I probably wouldn't care enough. Flying is worth the effort, driving isn't.

And who is part of the 90%?


Anyone who can't pass the medical or training requirements. I'd guess that a lot more than 10% would be able to pass the medical part, but wouldn't be willing to invest the time and effort to do 50-100+ hours of training, go through mandatory re-tests every two years, etc, if they can just take a bus wherever they want to go.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
 
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