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 master of ordinance wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I find it hard to believe that nobody can scare up an IKT with the ML and a couple ASMs with double Flamer kit. That auto-wins the blob.

It's called "anti-armour weapons".

Not difficult.

AT in a Guard blob? what are you smoking?

The heavy weapon spam that every IG list is peppered with , from tanks with 4+ big guns to str 9/10 artillery to weapon teams everywhere and melta-spam veterans.

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Guys, he (Typically-Wardian) tried making another duplicate spam thread (which is now locked thankfully) about how guard are OP in Proposed Rules. I would seriously try to avoid indulging him any further since its clear he's baiting at this point.

I'm not baiting. I thought this was a discussion forum.

It is, but you find that people eventually grow tired of malodorous trolls insisting against all the odds that they are right, despite all the evidence and the majority (read: almost everyone apart from them) saying otherwise.

Yarrick can give orders.

No he cant


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Typically-Wardian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I find it hard to believe that nobody can scare up an IKT with the ML and a couple ASMs with double Flamer kit. That auto-wins the blob.

It's called "anti-armour weapons".

Not difficult.

AT in a Guard blob? what are you smoking?

The heavy weapon spam that every IG list is peppered with , from tanks with 4+ big guns to str 9/10 artillery to weapon teams everywhere and melta-spam veterans.

You where specifically referring to an IG blob though

You could even *shock and horror* upgrade the blob IG to take melta and plasma.

Typically-Wardian wrote:
You could even *shock and horror* upgrade the blob IG to take melta and plasma.

5 BS3 Melta shots are hardly scary. Remeber that said blob has to live long enough to get within 6" of the target.

Guard Heavy Weapons teams are hardly worth it. Besides, our Russes have only 1 big gun, and 2 of those Russes aren't even worth it thanks to the Ordinance special rule, and the loss of Lumbering Behemoth. Basilisks are crippled by their minimum range. And congrats, you found of one like 3 decent units in the Guard codex.

Flayed Ones are actually disgusting against blobs of the same point value, especially if they get in the charge. If you didn't have your 4++ due to bad rolling, they'll ignore your armor and have 5 frickin attacks. At T4 4+/4+++, even with Hatred your s3 attacks don't entirely matter.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Yarrick can give orders.

No he cant

Do you even read your own codex? Yarrick has the Senior Officer rule.

I'm pretty sure flayed ones get shred as well.

Typically-Wardian wrote:
You could even *shock and horror* upgrade the blob IG to take melta and plasma.

Yes, BS3, with no re-rolls, gets hot, and an overrated 12" gun will what? Footslog to my whirlwinds in (fortified) cover?

What do you do against flyers then? Throw your boots at them?

 master of ordinance wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:
You could even *shock and horror* upgrade the blob IG to take melta and plasma.

5 BS3 Melta shots are hardly scary. Remeber that said blob has to live long enough to get within 6" of the target.

It can use buffs to gain tons of durability, and can use cover when that gets negated.

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Yarrick can give orders.

No he cant

Do you even read your own codex? Yarrick has the Senior Officer rule.

He does? news to me, I took one look at his points cost and turned the page.

Did you miss the part where ignores cover is available in spades now? And those buffs you're so proud of aren't that easy to get off with ml1 psykers. Have fun against Eldar or GK

 Jancoran wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Something tells me that your definition of "unkillable" doesn't match mine. As a Daemons player I've murdered every Guardsmen blob I've ever played against within the span of two turns. In what way exactly does one make a blob "unkillable"?

Lets match definitions. My definition is that I have lost the blob one time, in total ever.

How many times must it survive before you (personally) start calling it seemingly unkillable?

In any event, the fun part here is that you can just do it yourself and try it for a few games. it takes getting used to. For me it took a while to figure out how aggressive I could be with it and how aggressive I NEEDED to be with it. Once i figured all that out it was pretty easy to play.

You know what else AM has thats good? Vendettas. Some of the heartiest anti-air you can get ad it hovers. that's pretty amazing. I also think highly of some of their Leman Russ variants (and not so highly of others). manticores always do work for me. So I find them to be pretty good. Their Elites slots are a weakness relatively speaking but even there, you can get a little creative. HQ's are force multiplirs in a big way.

I love that you literally didn't even try to answer my question.

For those of you who are new to the boards, this is text-book Jancoran by the way. Make an outrageous claim, and when asked to substantiate that claim toss out some rhetoric in the vein of "learn to play, all I know is this works for me anecdote anecdote" yadada.

He is never going to actually, explicitly explain how his blobs are "unkillable", just re-assert infinity ad nauseum that they are.

Akiasura wrote:
I'm pretty sure flayed ones get shred as well.

Yep. Purely disgusting.

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Yarrick can give orders.

No he cant

Do you even read your own codex? Yarrick has the Senior Officer rule.

Actually, the Special Rule to give orders is "Voice of Command". Yarrick is the only Commissar to have the rule.

And to that end, you're wilingly going to blow 50+ shots on a single unit? Wow, gg. That totally not a waste of FRFSRF to kill a tact squad xD

 master of ordinance wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Yarrick can give orders.

No he cant

Do you even read your own codex? Yarrick has the Senior Officer rule.

He does? news to me, I took one look at his points cost and turned the page.

He's had it, but apparently there's conflict if you bring a CCS. I wouldn't know, as I don't play Guard, only against them on occasion (which has been forever; like maybe 6 months ago?)

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Something tells me that your definition of "unkillable" doesn't match mine. As a Daemons player I've murdered every Guardsmen blob I've ever played against within the span of two turns. In what way exactly does one make a blob "unkillable"?

Lets match definitions. My definition is that I have lost the blob one time, in total ever.

How many times must it survive before you (personally) start calling it seemingly unkillable?

In any event, the fun part here is that you can just do it yourself and try it for a few games. it takes getting used to. For me it took a while to figure out how aggressive I could be with it and how aggressive I NEEDED to be with it. Once i figured all that out it was pretty easy to play.

You know what else AM has thats good? Vendettas. Some of the heartiest anti-air you can get ad it hovers. that's pretty amazing. I also think highly of some of their Leman Russ variants (and not so highly of others). manticores always do work for me. So I find them to be pretty good. Their Elites slots are a weakness relatively speaking but even there, you can get a little creative. HQ's are force multiplirs in a big way.

I love that you literally didn't even try to answer my question.

For those of you who are new to the boards, this is text-book Jancoran by the way. Make an outrageous claim, and when asked to substantiate that claim toss out some rhetoric in the vein of "learn to play, all I know is this works for me anecdote anecdote" yadada.

He is never going to actually, explicitly explain how his blobs are "unkillable", just re-assert infinity ad nauseum that they are.

He has a blog. That is all the proof he needs.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Yarrick can give orders.

No he cant

Do you even read your own codex? Yarrick has the Senior Officer rule.

He does? news to me, I took one look at his points cost and turned the page.

He's had it, but apparently there's conflict if you bring a CCS. I wouldn't know, as I don't play Guard, only against them on occasion (which has been forever; like maybe 6 months ago?)

Chain Of Comand rule means that Yarrick cannot issue orders if another Senior Officer is on the battlefield.

I have a question, has anyone had success with the FW detachments (DKoK, Elysians, Armoured Battle Company)?

I remember facing off against Armoured Battle Company IG with my mates Tau (which I had no knowledge of how to play and a dire first turn shooting phase, literally could not do anything, but I could have won the game via Objectives had it ended turn 5 or 6) and I've seen Reecius use Elysians alongside Skyhammer and a Raptors CAD against DE/Eldar.

Armoured Battle Company is the thing where Russ tanks are taken as troops, for a greater cost, less synergy, and monster-hunting rounds.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I have a question, has anyone had success with the FW detachments (DKoK, Elysians, Armoured Battle Company)?

I remember facing off against Armoured Battle Company IG with my mates Tau (which I had no knowledge of how to play and a dire first turn shooting phase, literally could not do anything, but I could have won the game via Objectives had it ended turn 5 or 6) and I've seen Reecius use Elysians alongside Skyhammer and a Raptors CAD against DE/Eldar.

DKoK is best used in their Assault Regiment from IA12 because unfortunately the revamped IA for the Siege of Vraks hasn't fixed much regarding their detachment/options for their Siege Regiment so they're still relegated to just artillery spam. The Assault Regiment gives greater mobility and awesome rules letting you have chenkov's old rule of sending in the next wave except for entire platoons when they're fully destroyed.

Elysians have gotten a lot better with the updated IA3 (whichever one with the tyranids) since the special rules gives them army-wide WS/BS4 in addition to awesome special weapons teams.

Not sure about ABC, all I've really heard is beast hunter shells being spammed out the wazoo with the plethora of MC in the game nowadays.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Something tells me that your definition of "unkillable" doesn't match mine. As a Daemons player I've murdered every Guardsmen blob I've ever played against within the span of two turns. In what way exactly does one make a blob "unkillable"?

Lets match definitions. My definition is that I have lost the blob one time, in total ever.

How many times must it survive before you (personally) start calling it seemingly unkillable?

In any event, the fun part here is that you can just do it yourself and try it for a few games. it takes getting used to. For me it took a while to figure out how aggressive I could be with it and how aggressive I NEEDED to be with it. Once i figured all that out it was pretty easy to play.

You know what else AM has thats good? Vendettas. Some of the heartiest anti-air you can get ad it hovers. that's pretty amazing. I also think highly of some of their Leman Russ variants (and not so highly of others). manticores always do work for me. So I find them to be pretty good. Their Elites slots are a weakness relatively speaking but even there, you can get a little creative. HQ's are force multiplirs in a big way.

I love that you literally didn't even try to answer my question.

Just don't engage with him. He will absolutely not engage in any direct matter, he's had a pretty strong track record on several threads over the last couple weeks of making strong claims and statements and then spending multiple pages deflecting and refusing to actually engage in direct discussion.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I find it hard to believe that nobody can scare up an IKT with the ML and a couple ASMs with double Flamer kit. That auto-wins the blob.

It's called "anti-armour weapons".

Not difficult.

AT in a Guard blob? what are you smoking?

I'm assuming he's smoking the same stuff as Janky, with the 4 Lascannons that can't fire when the HtH blob charges or consolidates.

Even better if he's spending +15 pts for the Plasma Guns that won't do jack against my IKT.

Or just get two squads of meltavets in Chimeras and use the points saved to get an Imperial Knight.

And how many points does that add on top of the 600+ for the blob?

I think I get to add another IKT if you're adding.

"My guard-star is good because it only died once."

Yeah well my reaver Titan has literally never fallen below half hull points in 3 years of big games. He's still an overcosted statue in my backfield that takes all game to make his points back.

And I take it you don't run into the best and most competitive assassin much. Mr. Cool riding his stolen drop pod can set anyone relying on powers up for a very bad day.

Got any tourney reports of your guard performance to back up any of your claims? Or is this just "it does well in my little flgs so it must be good everywhere" syndrome?

He says he plays tourney style, but doesn't attend the big ones because he has nothing to prove. It is part of Jancoran's "avoid the big question" style.


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Also, does someone want to pit an equivalent amount of Decurion Flayed Ones against the Blobguard star that was spoken of? That would be hilarious.

(Commissars priests psykers etc all count as HQs but do not take up a slot)

*the more you know*

But guys, this is just Little Fish Big Pond syndrome at work. Yes, we all know that you can pick any kind of anti infantry tech and remove a guard blob. No, a 50 man platoon with 10 special characters is not an unkillable death machine against a decent optimized list. But, in a non competitive meta you can make pretty much anything seem super powerful.

When I started playing I ran Space Wolves all footslogging. Guess how I felt about Basilisks and LRBT?

When will I think Guard Blobs are unkillable? Never. Last game I played I took my Harlequins against two guard blobs and by the end of the game, which was extremely close, I had removed 75. The last game I played Guard I ran my blob featuring flamers, Coteaz, a priest and an extra psychic inquisitor. After two turns under fire from a three whirlwind squadron it was down for the count, 4++ from divination notwithstanding.

Basically any mass infantry killing weapon kills guard. All the expensive characters in the world doesn't change that, pretty much the only psychic power that actually protects them is Invisibility...which you can't get from the IG codex.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I have a question, has anyone had success with the FW detachments (DKoK, Elysians, Armoured Battle Company)?

I remember facing off against Armoured Battle Company IG with my mates Tau (which I had no knowledge of how to play and a dire first turn shooting phase, literally could not do anything, but I could have won the game via Objectives had it ended turn 5 or 6) and I've seen Reecius use Elysians alongside Skyhammer and a Raptors CAD against DE/Eldar.

Dkok Siege Regiment does beautiful, beautiful artillery spam, for the price of a LR, you get 2 Earthshakers that you can give orders too (even if the best orders were taken away), Thudd Guns are cheap and go in the elite slot, they're not as good as Wyverns, but pretty decent (more STR, less AP, no special rule, tho they might get pinning back if FW emails are any indications) so you're covered in both heavy and light artillery, You could have 9 Earthshakers and 12 Thudd Guns along with a MoO and still have plenty of points in a 2k games for support stuff and troops.

And the Hades Drill is tons of fun, but kinda wonky.

Thing is, I don't really need dedicated anti-infantry. I can take IKTs which do everything better. That is where it's obvious that both the blob, and the IG Codex fall short.