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IF (big if) GW are doing this, dont assume it is in order to make a profit. I've always regarded all of those games as a type of Gateway Drug. More properly known as a loss leader, i think. GW might have just realised they arent getting enough new customers without them. If GW control the intro games and the main games again they might think they can start to reestablish some of the bran loyalty that people never even develop these days.

Thing is looking at ebay prices for some epic and BFG, any price GW puts on some of the models will be cheaper.. some things are literally going for insane money at the mo.

I couldn't be more happy about those news.
Thank god, I didn't start a 30k legion - I will spend all my hobby budget on Mordheim/Necromunda/Bloodbowl/Epic

Great times ahead.


One can only hope they simplify the BfG Ruleset to make it an alternative to Star Wars Armada.

TBH I've spent so long outside the GW ecosystem it's irrelevant to me. I played the Specialist games (where applicable) as extensions of the 28mm ones, as part of multi-system campaigns. I don't play 40k any more because the rules are terrible and the prices don't represent value to me, so I don't have a reason to play the Specialist games again.

I'd consider playing Epic scale HH because it's just a much more appropriate scale IMO.

I'm also not interested if this is going to be limited run stuff.

Herzlos wrote:
That's just worded in that the Specialist Games department WILL have Forgeworld and LOTR/Hobbit. There's hints at other specialist games but no actual confirmation. I wonder if GW Aus has got the wrong end of the stick?

This is probably closer to the truth and that some managers took that to mean that BFG, Epic, etc will be re-done as well.

Just had a quiet chat with someone who told me the two day meeting was about the Christmas period. No mention of this was made at all. He doubted they'd do this as it'd distract from the Christmas Sales period. All taken with the usual caveats of course...

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Thing is looking at ebay prices for some epic and BFG, any price GW puts on some of the models will be cheaper.. some things are literally going for insane money at the mo.

Some things do, 'Nids for example, but the common stuff can often be bought cheaper than its original RRP fi you don't mind a bit of stripping.

I bought most of a Marine Chapter for £40 on Ebay, vehicles included (except for Whirlwinds and predators).

Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...

but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.

Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?

And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?

If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.

I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

I´m hopeful, but there is far too many opportunities for GW to feth this up (prices, material, scale, rules...)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...

but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.

Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?

And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?

If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.

I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

They are still number 1 though.

Ok, definitely doubt this now. Heard from another (very distant low in the food chain) contact who said this was from an internal restructure. This studio incorporates the Forgeworld Imperial Armour and Horus Heresy brands along with the LoTR/Hobbit Brands into a single division. He heard no mention of Specialist Games and the only similarities are in the name of the division.

Alright so this Facebook thing is from my local gw, and as much as I wouldn't doubt him being able to pull a prank I don't think he'd like the possible backlash.
This is a sign he has made for us locals and is news from high up so I'm calling it official. Everyone can celebrate

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

That's all second place when toy soldiers are concerned. Marines over morals!

 zedmeister wrote:
Ok, definitely doubt this now. Heard from another (very distant low in the food chain) contact who said this was from an internal restructure. This studio incorporates the Forgeworld Imperial Armour and Horus Heresy brands along with the LoTR/Hobbit Brands into a single division. He heard no mention of Specialist Games and the only similarities are in the name of the division.

Well the FB announcement does make it sound like the part about returning old games could be conjecture on their part...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

That's all second place when toy soldiers are concerned. Marines over morals!

Also I don't really have any moral qualms in the case of GW, there are so many companies doing FAR worse things in other sectors, things that kill people, cause irreversible damage to the environment etc, so copyright bullying over miniatures is pretty low on my list of grudges.

This does sound awesome and I have always wanted to get in to Epic but I am worried that if this is true, it's just going to be a lot more stuff that isn't going to be supported.

It's all well and good bringing this stuff back out but will they provide updates and FAQs where necessary. If 40k is anything to go by then I don't know if it's such a good idea. Hopefully they might gain the responsibility of providing updates to existing games as well.

We'll have to wait and see but this is welcome news none the less.

Personally, I don't care if they don't support the old Specialist Games - I have been managing fine without GW's support or help for years now. However, if they start re-releasing old miniatures that would be most welcome, as some of the Ebay scalper prices are outrageous.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.

I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

You know, every time GW does something wrong and Dakka calls them out on it, apologists trot out the line, "Well Dakka is always unhappy with GW regardless of what they do, so your complaints mean nothing!"

This thread shows that isn't true. People here do actually enjoy this hobby, and honestly believe that GW is sitting on a decent IP which has a strong draw for customers. There's no need to get all doom and gloom yet - so far, there is no evidence of wrongdoing. It looks (again, for the moment) that GW may be trying to correct a mistake. This is a good thing. It will remain a good thing until the evidence shows an agenda otherwise.

Something else that's said here on Dakka is "People can like a game and still dislike the company that makes it." This is something GW apologists often cannot understand, because they cannot separate GW from their hobby. That statement is just as true here. People really liked Epic and BFG - there's no shame in being happy to (hopefully) see their return. You can be happy about this and still take issue with GW's behavior; I know I certainly do. But if GW does more stuff like this (things I like) and less of their inane, paranoid, nonsense-business (which I do not like), then my opinion of them may start to change, if only slightly. After all, attitudes aren't immutable, and I'm fine giving credit where it's due.

Of course, if they come back and have lone frigates costing $80 without flight stands, or $200 individual Epic warlord titans, I'm gonna be very upset (but not especially surprised).

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Spoiler:

Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...

but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.

Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?

And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?

If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.

I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

Fair enough. No pleasing some people I guess...

It's funny how people expect FAQs these days. What a privileged lot we are! *in old man voice* In my day we made up rules of our own. It's funny how things change. Now everyone the world over has to be on the same page rules wise, and everything needs to be balanced! The golden age of GW in the 90s had none of this.

 Fifty wrote:
IF (big if) GW are doing this, dont assume it is in order to make a profit. I've always regarded all of those games as a type of Gateway Drug. More properly known as a loss leader, i think. GW might have just realised they arent getting enough new customers without them. If GW control the intro games and the main games again they might think they can start to reestablish some of the bran loyalty that people never even develop these days.

The same GW that canned them because they took profit away from their main lines and seems to be working on a very short term view?

IF specialist games come back, I expect them to be like Spacehulk - single run unsupported box drops to bag an easy 10k box sales. MAYBE some will be followed up with new mini support, but it'll be sporadic at best.

I'm quite excited about Blood Bowl (and a new store opening near me I can play in) but I'll be stunned if it's anything more than a minimum effort affair like AoS.

They have been bringing out things that seem to appeal to vets, and a broken clock is always right twice a day, so I could be wrong.

So they are bringing games out that will go no further no new units ?
Bfg was a good game but one of the least balanced games (of the time) not sure why bother and bloody metal battleships can remember trying to balance them on the stands the first time.

Now if they redone the metal models to plastic and add some new units and rebalance then great but odds of all this is none excistent.

As for rereleaseing epic 40k it was the worst game in gw history release the old epic this is not good news

It all seems half a**Ed

I never gotten the chance to play any of the specialist games. So it's a win win if they truely are thinking of re-releasing stuff like Mordheim/Necromunda/BFG I do am making a Mordheim gang though.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Spoiler:

Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...

but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.

Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?

And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?

If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.

I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

Fair enough. No pleasing some people I guess...

Not having a go at you, but I remember the Chapterhouse thread and the hand wringing from dakka members about 'evil' GW, but now it's all yeah, I hate them, I hate them so much I'm going to show how much I hate them by walking into their stores and buying their stuff. That'll show them.

Do me a favour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 filbert wrote:
Personally, I don't care if they don't support the old Specialist Games - I have been managing fine without GW's support or help for years now. However, if they start re-releasing old miniatures that would be most welcome, as some of the Ebay scalper prices are outrageous.

I'm not one for giving advice, but I'll give some anyway

When dealing with GW, it's once bitten twice shy, as far as I'm concerned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

That's all second place when toy soldiers are concerned. Marines over morals!

Sad but true.

What if I don't care about chapterhouse? I'm willing to be most people don't, and will be happy to see a game they loved or never got to try will be coming back.

Hell, I'm willing to bet most people who play 40k or consume GW products don't even know who chapterhouse was.

It's not chapterhouse per se, it's GW's behaviour during the whole thing. Even if you dislike CHS, you have to acknowledge that GW's way of operating is pretty dodgy?

Anyway, the timing of this seems way off - it's announced 2 days before the HH box hits the shelf and in the run up to Christmas? Unless they bring out a specialist box in the next few weeks releases, they've just cannibalized their own sales. I've already seen people abandon the HH box to keep money for Blood Bowl / Necromunda.

I'm sticking with the gut reaction here - someone in Aus has gotten the wrong end of the stick, and is going to be issuing an apology once GW HQ notice. It's 11am here, so some of them might be rolling into the office or finishing off their game of golf, give it a few hours.

RoninXiC wrote:
Why would we "return" to the specialist games?

Blood Bowl does not need GW's support and there's also Dreadball
Epic has been replaced years ago by Dropfleet commander and that Spartan Game
BFG see above
Necromunda would suffer vs all the other skirmish games like infinity, malif etc.
Mordheim vs Frostgrave...

Yeah, it's not going to be that successful.

Because for some of us products are not valueless interchangeable equivalents? Epic & BFG blow Spartan's exploding-6 nonsense out of the water from my perspective & Dropfleet doesn't have anywhere near the sense of scale, and I have zero interest in the other "alternatives" because they have one major key flaw; they're not GW Specialist Games. They don't have the background, they don't have the aesthetic, the rules play completely differently in many cases, so playing them isn't even remotely the same.

And it won't be successful? I'd say that depends entirely on GW. A lot of folk play those other games because they can't find/create a sustainable SG group in their area since the rules and minis are all OOP, and they'd rather play a small-model-scale mass combat game or fleet game, or a scifi gang warfare game than nothing at all. Then you have folk like me who're only in wargaming for the 40K/Realhammer Fantasy universes and who've been pottering away on SG stuff regardless of whether GW supported them or not. These games have a huge amount of goodwill and nostalgia, so literally all GW have to do is not colossally feth up reintroducing them(say, by pricing BFG ships like the current OOP models on ebay, or by AoS'ifying the rules/background of Mordheim) and they're going to struggle not to be successful.

All that said, I spent about five minutes having a wee squee moment and then quite deliberately forced down my enthusiasm beneath the layer of cynicism that is my default mode, because we are talking about GW here, and if anyone can take a fundamentally brilliant idea and flush it down the toilet with a combination of insane pricing and total failure to understand why their own product was so well received previously, it's GW.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Well, say goodbye to Forge World then. It was a good run while it lasted.

That does concern me. Currently FW is the one area in GW that seems to be run by adults. BL used to be like FW, but got sucked into the Horus Heresy vortex or endless padding, and have yet to recover. FW on the other hand go out of their way to show of previews, hold proper seminars, get people excited for their products, act as part of the miniature gaming hobby (rather than acting like a hobby unto themselves) and generally act like a miniature company should.

I'm worried that the people making these decisions will not be making decisions for this larger entity, and GW's Iron Curtain of Needless Secrecy will fall upon FW as well.

This is the other big concern. We can only hope that this is GW recognising & rewarding FW's success by basically giving the people running it more resources and a bigger remit, rather than GW swooping in to try and appropriate that success with all their usual lack of subtlety, elegance, and intelligence.

I suppose we won't have to wait that long to find this one out though; if we start getting info about this new group and what they're going to be up to fairly soonish, we can surmise the FW attitude will likely prevail. If we get a standard GW "BIG NEWS EVERYBODY! This thing is happening. Yes, fantastic isn't it? Oh bee-tee-dubz, it'll be out next week, prepare your wallets." statement when the news hits their own website, we can crack a nice bottle of scotch and toast the memory of FW-that-was.

Herzlos wrote:
It's not chapterhouse per se, it's GW's behaviour during the whole thing. Even if you dislike CHS, you have to acknowledge that GW's way of operating is pretty dodgy?

Anyway, the timing of this seems way off - it's announced 2 days before the HH box hits the shelf and in the run up to Christmas? Unless they bring out a specialist box in the next few weeks releases, they've just cannibalized their own sales. I've already seen people abandon the HH box to keep money for Blood Bowl / Necromunda.

I'm sticking with the gut reaction here - someone in Aus has gotten the wrong end of the stick, and is going to be issuing an apology once GW HQ notice. It's 11am here, so some of them might be rolling into the office or finishing off their game of golf, give it a few hours.

Yep, I think a certain manager in GW Aus is going to be sacked good and hard!

a 40k Blood Bowl would be so cool.

Going by the reputable sources elsewhere, they're saying this is true.
Colour me optimistic but still cynical.

Hastings on Warseer has said that all he's seen that's been confirmed is the re-org & Hobbit support, nothing about the specialist games we're getting excited about.

Not that it's impossible; we do know that they had a Blood Bowl relaunch ready to go and pulled it due to Dreadfleet sales.

 Vector Strike wrote:
a 40k Blood Bowl would be so cool.

Yeah keep wishing for that one.