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 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

Plastic kits for niche games don't make financial sense,

When that same plastic kit could be used by a few 40K armies it suddenly becomes a lot less niche. If there were no cross over potential at all I would expect nothing more than resin for the entire Necromunda range. The only plastics that I envision for the the rest of the NeoSgs would be in boxed games, everything else will almost certainly be resin.

Thanks for actually clarifying your point. As I stated a page or two back, if the only reasoning behind doing plastic gangers at all is for 40k crossover, they would be better served just releasing such a kit as a 40k Chaos Cultist multi-part box. Most of us who currently either play Necromunda, Inquisimunda or Inq28 have made plenty of use out of the snap fit ones from the DV set, and a multipart kit of a similar concept with more options and variations would certainly be well received. Shave off a few chaos symbols and that's basically what a gang box would look like based on what you've suggested.

That being said, there's no reason that needs to be tied directly to a new Necromunda release. If their business goal is to fuel 40k sales, just direct it at 40k customers to begin with.

For once GW is trying to think outside the box and try something different with Specialist Games. For whatever reason it seems the 40k players can't do the same and seem hell bent on wanting anything to somehow tie back in to 40k, whether it be models or rules or whatever. The reason people are being so adamant against that here is because it would be like 40k Tau players wanting GW to shoehorn Tau armies into Horus Heresy or something, just so they can get mileage out of products they already own, despite it making zero sense and would certainly piss off a substantial portion of the players.

These games can and should stand on their own from 40k in every regard. We don't need tie ins, cross overs, or anything of the sort. We just need a solid update with new models that fit existing aesthetics. It's perfectly suited for Forgeworld and something they could pump out in under a year.

 Starfarer wrote:

Thanks for actually clarifying your point.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

Actually I was speaking from a financial viability standpoint, a plastic Gangers box would have a lot of utility with 40k and it would make sense to make it as useful as possible for any future Necromunda project, therefor 'generic' parts. I don't really have much in the way of a personal preference in this area.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

A generic Ganger box would be useless.

Far from it, it would have a lot of utility. A single box could easily cover 2-3 gangs (Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar) and more distinctive gangs could easily be covered by resin bolt ons. This kit could also see wide use in 40k, from Cultists to Inquisitorial henchmen.

This would actually a good move for GW precisely because of its 40k utility.

Surely I was clear enough already.

Did I miss discussion of an Epic Warlord Titan in this thread?

46 seconds into this video they show a pic and say it has been making the rounds, but it's the first I've heard of it:


What news have I missed, Dakka, or did people just discount this / think it's not an indication of a model for Epic?

It's been posted in the thread previously.

 notprop wrote:
Perhaps its more a question of would you rather have Necromunda with a multi-pose generic 40K ganger box with resin conversion packs (ala FWs many 30K SM packs) or nothing?

Why are these the only options?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Perhaps its more a question of would you rather have Necromunda with a multi-pose generic 40K ganger box with resin conversion packs (ala FWs many 30K SM packs) or nothing?

Why are these the only options?

I've been asking myself that about gw products for a long time now.

It is not an Epic model actually, just a fun project from one of the FW guys who made the 28mm Warlord. That was openly communicated when asked about the 'little brother' at the Open Day. This smaller Warlord is larger than the old Imperator titans and not the first of the new model range. It does show well what amount of detail modern kits could come with. They will have to scale it down at least 20% to fit the Epic range. If not 40%.

 Breotan wrote:
So, has this made the rounds yet? If not, then I has a rumor.

Okay found it (copied above). You guys are letting me slip! Ping me if I miss something else important like that next time and I can get it added to the OP.

Warhams-77 wrote:
It is not an Epic model actually, just a fun project from one of the FW guys who made the 28mm Warlord. That was openly communicated when asked about the 'little brother' at the Open Day. This smaller Warlord is larger than the old Imperator titans and not the first of the new model range. It does show well what amount of detail modern kits could come with. They will have to scale it down at least 20% to fit the Epic range. If not 40%.

Aww... . Guess I won't add it to the OP, after all...

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
For the first time in a long time I'm quietly optimistic about something GW might be doing.

Totally agreed, Skink - I can't even describe how exciting current Epic-scale Titans would be, with some tiny Knights running around their feet... oh man, so awesome . Hope they follow through!

Warhams-77 wrote:
They will have to scale it down at least 20% to fit the Epic range. If not 40%.

The older titans could've been scaled up to match the range, though.

Good point, and they probably will, although the 3rd/4th Ed Epic Warlord was already larger than the earlier models. There is a limit because you will end with a 40k-like, Dreadnought-sized kit at a point

RiTides, why not? Maybe call it 'Small size Warlord made by the FW team' and not the first new epic miniature. I was looking for more pics, there are, but I cannot find them atm.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Perhaps its more a question of would you rather have Necromunda with a multi-pose generic 40K ganger box with resin conversion packs (ala FWs many 30K SM packs) or nothing?

Why are these the only options?

Perhaps you would like to spell out your own premise but my point was clear enough I thought: Is there a desire for the old line renewed (possible unfeasible given comparatively low sales and the high set up cost of another plastic range)...or...a more generic approach to the line that would see the game in production more easily.

The first would be unlikely to be approved by a small business unit, the second more likely.

So do you demand all the bells and whistles and get nothing or would you want the game back with it cloth cut to the more limited resources of FW/SGDS?

Me, I'd prefer the first but wouldn't be unhappy with a generic gang based around the old Confrontation line GW had if the alternative was nada.

Warhams-77 wrote:
RiTides, why not? Maybe call it 'Small size Warlord made by the FW team' and not the first new epic miniature. I was looking for more pics, there are, but I cannot find them atm.

Okay, I added it to the OP but with your note in red so that folks don't get their hopes up in the wrong manner (like I did earlier )

And we all know that FW just *hates* those darn Dreadnought kits and especially selling them

I think they could do some amazing work at the proper scale.

This is from another Dakka thread that showcases some fan-made/sculpted titans painted up. These are obvious 3D prints of digital sculpts (or resin casts of them anyway. Obviously the sculptor is not selling these commercially, but I think it shows what the Forge World Studio could do by scaling down the 3D models they have for the 28mm versions...with a little tweaking. There have been some modifications to the sculpt (basically giving it a little bit of the heroic scale treatment...exaggerating the size/scale of certain elements to make it look 'right', but also 'work' as a model at that scale)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/612018.page#7612095

Below as a spoiler is a pic pulled from the thread, again, these are NOT official and are NOT for sale...

Binabik15 wrote:
And we all know that FW just *hates* those darn Dreadnought kits and especially selling them

I was walking about the scale not looking correct at some point. Warlords arent that big actually

@RiTides Good idea

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Perhaps its more a question of would you rather have Necromunda with a multi-pose generic 40K ganger box with resin conversion packs (ala FWs many 30K SM packs) or nothing?

Why are these the only options?

There is zero reason the kits have to be "multi-pose generic." Besides the value loss to the game by losing the layer of distinctiveness, GW's already shown that they can sell relatively low volume kits with higher tier prices. This is certainly a boutique product being made by what we should consider their boutique branch.

While GW-SS may play this out cautiously, gang specific box sets are perfectly viable. Any kit they produce will probably be on a standard size double sprue split in half to fit in the standard infantry kit box. They'll probably charge us $50 for a kit comparable in size as a box of Eldar wyches. Even if they didn't think the volume was there for that, they'd just go to smaller number of sprues in a smaller box and make you buy more than one set.

I think the GW-SS will try to "surprise" us by avoiding "generic" modularity and instead giving us sprues of distinct models with only limited options. I think we will see a plastic kit for each gang. I think they'll be something like the chaos cultist models; distinctly posed with a very few optional bits with a few more options for your gang leader. If there is anything "generic" it'll be a weapon sprue, but given the nature of GW's manufacturing capabilities that isn't even really necessary.

A new adeptus titanicus with 4 to 5 of those mini titans per side could be pretty fun. The army building system from the first edition where you could take more or less points for harder or easier objectives always seemed neat to me.

 notprop wrote:
Perhaps you would like to spell out your own premise but my point was clear enough I thought: Is there a desire for the old line renewed (possible unfeasible given comparatively low sales and the high set up cost of another plastic range)...or...a more generic approach to the line that would see the game in production more easily.

What makes you believe that a generic gang that satisfies nobody is more viable than the most popular gang? If you're only going to make a single plastic kit, why would you not make it the kit that the most people want to buy?

Vermis wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
They will have to scale it down at least 20% to fit the Epic range. If not 40%.

The older titans could've been scaled up to match the range, though.

Warhams-77 wrote:Good point, and they probably will, although the 3rd/4th Ed Epic Warlord was already larger than the earlier models. There is a limit because you will end with a 40k-like, Dreadnought-sized kit at a point

The scale inconsistency was the only thing that ever kept me out of Epic. I hope they take advantage of a reboot to align all the models to a single scale. With titans like the Warlord and Emperor titan being dreadknight sized and 40k Knight sized respectively when properly scaled to epic, in the proper size those would be models that get people excited. Epic is a great game but one of the biggest issues with it from the stand point of "hobby" is that the scale diminishes the details for so many of the models. By giving us nice well sized titan models GW-SS gives us exciting centerpieces and by making them properly scaled, that is bigger, it just accentuates the scope and scale of the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Perhaps you would like to spell out your own premise but my point was clear enough I thought: Is there a desire for the old line renewed (possible unfeasible given comparatively low sales and the high set up cost of another plastic range)...or...a more generic approach to the line that would see the game in production more easily.

What makes you believe that a generic gang that satisfies nobody is more viable than the most popular gang? If you're only going to make a single plastic kit, why would you not make it the kit that the most people want to buy?

There are plenty lower volume kits that reflect how GW could approach gang specific kits.

Maybe its getting too technical but if GW thought the sale volume of the kit was insufficient they could always bring down the cost by using aluminum molds and produce 1/10th as many kits for a comparable price.

By giving us nice well sized titan models GW-SS gives us exciting centerpieces and by making them properly scaled, that is bigger, it just accentuates the scope and scale of the game.

We need another acronym for the new studio...

Personal suspicion - either two (2) gangs in plastic, with Forge World resins for all the rest, or no (0) gangs in plastic, and everything in Forge World resin

Personal hope - new sculpts, updating the figures, but keeping the old aesthetic.

But a worry for GW may be that folks might use other companies' miniatures for the game - I can think of two companies that make very nice figures that fit two completely different gangs. (DuLaque and Escher.)

The Auld Grump - I own one, and a friend has the other....

True, Mythos, it is a chance to scale them properly. I would welcome a large kit, too. Spent the last 60 minutes looking for the Open Day report it was posted in but I could not find the blog. There was another photo from a different angle, the small Titan is about Carnifex-size. I will post it if I find it.

The problem with scaling Titans is that standard infantry is - currently - set with a height of 6mm, and if you use the scale of the FW Warhound, Reaver and Warlord in relation to a 28mm infantry model for the Epic models, which I hope they do, than a dreadnought-sized model or larger would probably be out of scale. The old plastic Beetleback Warlords had large Bannerpoles and carapace mounted weapons but were actually quite small. The plastic 1st Ed Tyranid warriors dwarfed them. The size was quite good to play with though. This was priority rather than a correct scaling as far as I remember.

New, fully customizable Warlords and other titan-sized models plus several Knight sprues would make for amazing armies and very likely sell well.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Personal suspicion - either two (2) gangs in plastic, with Forge World resins for all the rest, or no (0) gangs in plastic, and everything in Forge World resin

Personal hope - new sculpts, updating the figures, but keeping the old aesthetic.

But a worry for GW may be that folks might use other companies' miniatures for the game - I can think of two companies that make very nice figures that fit two completely different gangs. (DuLaque and Escher.)

The Auld Grump - I own one, and a friend has the other....

It really wouldn't do much for the game if its all FW. The point of doing this under this new Specialist Studio umbrella is to bring the large production capabilities of plastic to these niche games, with the apparent hope that they take off like HH has. I think they will do a core set in plastic and then trickle out a few more in plastic over time, with FW producing characters and misc weapon options. I think FW will do some gangs in resin but they'd probably be things like the Spyers or muties where they'd benefit that much more from the resin treatment. FW could do some terrain and maybe even produce some added rules for sewer fighting for selling zone mortalis terrain.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warhams-77 wrote:
True, Mythos, it is a chance to scale them properly. I would welcome a large kit, too. Spent the last 60 minutes looking for the Open Day report it was posted in but I could not find the blog. There was another photo from a different angle, the small Titan is about Carnifex-size. I will post it if I find it.

The problem with scaling Titans is that standard infantry is - currently - set with a height of 6mm, and if you use the scale of the FW Warhound, Reaver and Warlord in relation to a 28mm infantry model for the Epic models, which I hope they do, than a dreadnought-sized model or larger would be out of scale. The old plastic Beetleback Warlords had large Bannerpoles and carapace mounted weapons but were actually quite small. The plastic 1st Ed Tyranid warriors dwarfed them. The size was quite good to play with though. This was priority rather than a correct scaling as far as I remember.

New, fully customizable Warlords and other titan-sized models plus several Knight sprues would make for amazing armies and very likely sell well.

When it comes to aligning the scaling its all under the assumption they are starting from scratch and that all the models are new. When they made Epic they made all the infantry, vehicles, flyers, and Titans each in a similar but different scale. Infantry was 6mm or 1/285, vehicles were something like 1/350, flyers were closer to 1/400, and TItans were 1/700. Its most apparent how skewed the scaling when you look at the Emperor titan and realize those battlements are should be large enough for infantry to use. The scales were skewed to keep the metal miniatures of the time relatively affordable. With GW's plastic current plastic technology there is absolutely no reason GW doesn't produce its Warlord Dreadknight sized and Emperor Titan, Imperial Knight sized. Even if at these sizes FW produced them in resin, people would love the ability to own these larger titans without having to buy the 40k ones.

 Azreal13 wrote:

By giving us nice well sized titan models GW-SS gives us exciting centerpieces and by making them properly scaled, that is bigger, it just accentuates the scope and scale of the game.

We need another acronym for the new studio...

Redshirts, blueshirts, blackshirts, I heard the Specialist Studios sales staff at GW HQ will wear brown; so lets go with brownshirts.

I actually think that we're unlikely to get anything unless its (nearly) complete,

despite the positive changed to GW thinking brining back a specialist games division they are not going to put out a game with rules for lots and lots of minis they don't make (any more)

And not to be to pesamistic even if they did release a full rule set with a couple of gangs (plastic or resin) how long is it going to take to FW to sculpt the rest even with a few more people on board looking at all the HH stuff they've still go to do (sure they've put out a fair amount, but a lot is just blinged up contemptors)

more likely an big box set with limited pose plastics of say 6 gangs in 2 years time which they can add spcialists and rules to via resin as time (or sales) allow, new rules being digital only to avoid other companies sneaking in and releasing model-less stuff first

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
But a worry for GW may be that folks might use other companies' miniatures for the game - I can think of two companies that make very nice figures that fit two completely different gangs. (DuLaque and Escher.)

I know about Heresy's not-Delaques, but who makes not-Eschers?

For meself, I like the later lucius pattern titans, particularly the warlord (Imperius Dictatio!) but since hearing about how out of scale they were, I've thought 'true-scale' would look better. I've got a couple of lucius warlords and FW warhounds, but despite how rare and OOP they are I fancy starting with Troublemaker Games proxies, which tower over the GW titans. Still will, but I wouldn't be opposed to placing that FW model alongside, if it ever became available.

Az: for some reason I can see it being called the SpoStu.

Like... "s'pos'd-to"...?




I'll get me coat.

 notprop wrote:
Yeah, those generic Confrontation gangers are rather popular and go for pretty good price in ebay.

i'm looking at my Tech gangers, my Brat gangers, and all of my other Confrontation minis, trying to figure out what is generic about them...
they have very distinct looks, both from each other, and from any minis on the market...
what is generic about them???


@the thread: personally, i am happy with the every previous generation of Necromunda (and Confrontation) minis, but would be be happy to see updated minis for each gang...
FW would get a good amount out of me for nice models, as always...

i love the Escher sculpts, and i love Infinity's female sculpts...
i'm surprised that there are even a few of you with a very strong dislike for these two companies' ladies...
i like a little cheesecake now and again ...

cheers
jah

Warhams-77 wrote:
The problem with scaling Titans is that standard infantry is - currently - set with a height of 6mm, and if you use the scale of the FW Warhound, Reaver and Warlord in relation to a 28mm infantry model for the Epic models, which I hope they do, than a dreadnought-sized model or larger would probably be out of scale. The old plastic Beetleback Warlords had large Bannerpoles and carapace mounted weapons but were actually quite small. The plastic 1st Ed Tyranid warriors dwarfed them. The size was quite good to play with though. This was priority rather than a correct scaling as far as I remember.

New, fully customizable Warlords and other titan-sized models plus several Knight sprues would make for amazing armies and very likely sell well.

We should expect to see highly detailed Epic scale versions of the recent FW designs, including the Titans, should FW decide to relaunch Epic.

In the years following the release of Epic Armageddon in 2003, FW systematically produced scaled down versions of their own designs, I believe they would often release the 40k scale and the Epic scale versions at nearly the same time.

http://s533.photobucket.com/user/OldMoronguhl/media/forgeworld.jpg.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lkyzA13nVQc/ThZjOZQXOHI/AAAAAAAABPY/2DZxp-Wn78s/s1600/epic_model_size_titan_28mmmarine.JPG

They even made Grey Knights infantry models.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
But a worry for GW may be that folks might use other companies' miniatures for the game - I can think of two companies that make very nice figures that fit two completely different gangs. (DuLaque and Escher.)

I know about Heresy's not-Delaques, but who makes not-Eschers?

Not specifically Eschers, but Gang War Miniatures on Shapeways makes a number of nice Necro style female minis and nice scenery and weapons pieces as well.
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/gangwar

Tim

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
But a worry for GW may be that folks might use other companies' miniatures for the game - I can think of two companies that make very nice figures that fit two completely different gangs. (DuLaque and Escher.)

I know about Heresy's not-Delaques, but who makes not-Eschers?

i would suspect that he is referring to Raging Heroes, Toughest Girls in the Galaxy...
maybe the "not-Catachans"...
those girls look good...

cheers
jah