Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You can do that right now anyways!

Probably not, although it wouldn't be the first time the Tyranids use subverted enemy vehicles.

guru wrote:
WD 124

Genestealers are effectively the heralds of Tyranid invasions, because the psychic power of the Patriarch shines like a beacon in the Warp and is perceived by the Hive Fleets of the Tyranids. As the cult's power grows over the world, the beacon becomes stronger, signaling to the Tyranids the location of a biologically rich world. By the time the Hive Fleets arrive, the world may already be completely in the hands of the genestealer cult, or torn apart by civil war between the cult and the remaining free society, or at least weakened and rife with traitors. However, after the planet comes to the Hive Fleet's notice, the destiny of the cult is sealed, because all surviving members are absorbed like the rest of the planet

Even the Tyranids own organisms are devoured, so it's not exactly news or specific to Genestealers Cults. The only thing Tyranids don't eat are Ymgarl Genestealers according to older fluff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
At the end, yes, but I don't think that you're going to see Hormagaunts running into battle supported by a PDF Leman Russ squadron.

And why not? The Hive Mind takes over the Broodlords, who command whatever forces it has, and they attack the same targets the other Tyranids are after.

I don't see a problem with Tyranids using the local Genestealer Cult as allies when they invade a planet. They're all psychically linked after all so it makes sense to use the tools they have at their disposal to destroy the defenders. The Genestealer Cult will be consumed along with the Tyranids when the planet is consumed.

Part of me wants to see the option of taking Imperial Guard tanks as part of a Cult. Perhaps some rules to make them worse than when taken in an Imperial Guard army would be appropriate though.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
At the end, yes, but I don't think that you're going to see Hormagaunts running into battle supported by a PDF Leman Russ squadron.

And why not? The Hive Mind takes over the Broodlords, who command whatever forces it has, and they attack the same targets the other Tyranids are after.

Well first, because the vast majority of PDFs do not have Leman Russes to begin with. A planet needs to be REALLY well off or important for their PDFs to have Guard quality gear. They primarily have locally produced stuff or relics(in some cases, these are BETTER than Russes even!) that have been left from Guard Regiments that were posted there long ago.
Second because Genestealer Cults are secretive by their nature. It's always been the case that they're spread all over the place with maybe a few key individuals compromised but the rest of the command intact. It's the sudden, concerted uprising of all these little Cults that makes everything go to hell in a hand basket as it's timed with the reestablishment of contact with the Hive Mind by the Genestealers and Broodlords.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
At the end, yes, but I don't think that you're going to see Hormagaunts running into battle supported by a PDF Leman Russ squadron.

And why not? The Hive Mind takes over the Broodlords, who command whatever forces it has, and they attack the same targets the other Tyranids are after.

Well first, because the vast majority of PDFs do not have Leman Russes to begin with. A planet needs to be REALLY well off or important for their PDFs to have Guard quality gear. They primarily have locally produced stuff or relics(in some cases, these are BETTER than Russes even!) that have been left from Guard Regiments that were posted there long ago.
Second because Genestealer Cults are secretive by their nature. It's always been the case that they're spread all over the place with maybe a few key individuals compromised but the rest of the command intact. It's the sudden, concerted uprising of all these little Cults that makes everything go to hell in a hand basket as it's timed with the reestablishment of contact with the Hive Mind by the Genestealers and Broodlords.

Ah, appreciated. Didn't know how PDFs were generally equipped.

I hope there's a limo. In fact I hope the game is about the limo driver. You'd have to drive around picking up and dropping off important cult members on their various errands while avoiding the Arbites, Deathwatch and parking tickets. On the last mission you have to drive the Patriarch, but you have to be quick because there's a random chance each round that he'll get hungry and eat you.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
At the end, yes, but I don't think that you're going to see Hormagaunts running into battle supported by a PDF Leman Russ squadron.

And why not? The Hive Mind takes over the Broodlords, who command whatever forces it has, and they attack the same targets the other Tyranids are after.

Well first, because the vast majority of PDFs do not have Leman Russes to begin with. A planet needs to be REALLY well off or important for their PDFs to have Guard quality gear. They primarily have locally produced stuff or relics(in some cases, these are BETTER than Russes even!) that have been left from Guard Regiments that were posted there long ago.
Second because Genestealer Cults are secretive by their nature. It's always been the case that they're spread all over the place with maybe a few key individuals compromised but the rest of the command intact. It's the sudden, concerted uprising of all these little Cults that makes everything go to hell in a hand basket as it's timed with the reestablishment of contact with the Hive Mind by the Genestealers and Broodlords.

Sure, but GW retcons their stuff all the time, and--here's a shocker--they really like to sell models. So, I could totally see these cults being bestowed the Tyranid faction for allies purposes if/when they get their own codex.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
At the end, yes, but I don't think that you're going to see Hormagaunts running into battle supported by a PDF Leman Russ squadron.

And why not? The Hive Mind takes over the Broodlords, who command whatever forces it has, and they attack the same targets the other Tyranids are after.

Well first, because the vast majority of PDFs do not have Leman Russes to begin with. A planet needs to be REALLY well off or important for their PDFs to have Guard quality gear. They primarily have locally produced stuff or relics(in some cases, these are BETTER than Russes even!) that have been left from Guard Regiments that were posted there long ago.
Second because Genestealer Cults are secretive by their nature. It's always been the case that they're spread all over the place with maybe a few key individuals compromised but the rest of the command intact. It's the sudden, concerted uprising of all these little Cults that makes everything go to hell in a hand basket as it's timed with the reestablishment of contact with the Hive Mind by the Genestealers and Broodlords.

Sure, but GW retcons their stuff all the time, and--here's a shocker--they really like to sell models. So, I could totally see these cults being bestowed the Tyranid faction for allies purposes if/when they get their own codex.

The novella "Tempestus" and the recent Cryptus campaign that it accompanied actually established that Genestealer Cults are still a thing and aren't hugely changed from what they used to be. They also kinda fleshed it out a bit more, with an interesting tidbit of the cultists(being from a water world and their livelihood being based around fishing) adapting their pressure suits and adding bits and bobs of crablike monsters to give themselves a more Tyranid-ish appearance. Add to it that the cultists started almost behaving like Genestealers themselves and it hints that the Broodlords' control might not be as total as some think it is but more of a kind of(for lack of a better term) "trendsetting" amongst the Cultists.

Not really sure why you're talking about "retconning" or cults "being bestowed the Tyranid faction for allies purposes". If they do get their own Codex, they're guaranteed to be BB with Tyranids.

 Tyran wrote:
Probably not, although it wouldn't be the first time the Tyranids use subverted enemy vehicles.

Exactly!

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I hope there's a limo. In fact I hope the game is about the limo driver. You'd have to drive around picking up and dropping off important cult members on their various errands while avoiding the Arbites, Deathwatch and parking tickets. On the last mission you have to drive the Patriarch, but you have to be quick because there's a random chance each round that he'll get hungry and eat you.

Quick do some coding and pitch it as a mobile game!

It can go great wtih my SoB dating sim!

I read this misconception a few times here... cultists are manipulated humans, parents, PDF forces etc.

But Sad Panda pointed out there are Hybrid(-like) troops. They get born by (Genestealer) infected humans. Genetically they are now alien beasts mixed with the hosts DNA.

Early generation hybrids look a lot like Genestealers. Later ones get more human and can use weapons like firearms. The fourth looks mostly like a human and is highly psychic (called Magus). There are four hybrid generations, with new Genestealers being the fifth one and starting the cycle anew. This has not much to do with Tyranid forces. Except growing Genestealer Cults send a beacon to Tyranids through space - but it takes ages until they arrive.

The original 1st Ed Genestealer army was a two-part army list. One part, the Genestealer Cult, was heavily connected to Chaos worshippers and similiar rebellious forces. The other one, the Invasion Force, was basically a small, growing Genestealer brood (lacking the Magus for example). The 3rd Ed GC focused afaik more on the rebellion type - combining the Hybrid cycle and human rebels but minus Chaos. The original cycle was still there and never got retconned.

Genestealers scout for the Tyranids without knowing - create a cult lead by the oldest one - and draw in Tyranid forces with their psychic beacons growing with the amount of Hybrids, Mind Slaves (like the parents of the Hybrids) in a Cult, and the power of the Broodlord and his Magus.

The first edition GC playstyle was very cool and unique. Fluffwise a new, combined GC and Tyranid army list would only focus on a few days of up to hundreds of years of a Patriarchs life and the Cult.

Not sure if this limitation would be satisfying for Genestealer Cult players. The arrival of the Tyranids is basically the end of the Cult - and that would mean skipping much of the more interesting times of growing a cult and starting the actual rebellion that weakens the planet's population and its defenses.

The new Codex: Harlequins had some pretty unusual rules like the Deathjesters' way of manipulating enemy forces and I can see GW bringing that type of gameplay back for GC as well.

They were basically the Puppetmasters of 1st ed - part of a squad of Genestealers paralyzing an enemy unit via eye contact (a kind of psychic dominance) and the other charging the helpless foe. There were also insta-kill attacks (Facehugger-like) and other elements.

Current Genestealers are only a shadow of their former self.

With the Magus and Broodlord they had very potent psykers too. Some RT spells (rulebook lists for all armies) were overpowered anyway, but they made GC a serious threat.

Also RT's hidden deployment mechanic made infiltrators much better. You had to detect them by getting nearby. Genestealer units could get rules that prevent them from getting attacked until you are within 12". This would make them much better. The Leviathan Dataslate formation that lets them deploy in ruins seems to be a step in the direction a Genestealer Cult army could play like.

Harlequins get a kind of additional game turn. Why not bring back the older elements of the GC cult?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It can go great wtih my SoB dating sim!

I heard it was just a reskin of this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbVC1iUTFEM

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I hope there's a limo. In fact I hope the game is about the limo driver. You'd have to drive around picking up and dropping off important cult members on their various errands while avoiding the Arbites, Deathwatch and parking tickets. On the last mission you have to drive the Patriarch, but you have to be quick because there's a random chance each round that he'll get hungry and eat you.

You know, this sounds really good.

Why does 40k always have to focus on the violence?

Maybe an Agricola reskin where you farm nutrient algae on Valhalla?

A 40K farming or work in a manufactorum sim.........i'd probably end up playing it ><

As far as a Genestealer Cult vehicles go, I imagine a Limo in the 40k setting isn't too different than the rules for Taurox Prime with other vehicles being in the vein of the FW Tauros.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I hope there's a limo. In fact I hope the game is about the limo driver. You'd have to drive around picking up and dropping off important cult members on their various errands while avoiding the Arbites, Deathwatch and parking tickets. On the last mission you have to drive the Patriarch, but you have to be quick because there's a random chance each round that he'll get hungry and eat you.

Makes me picture a crazy taxi - GTA mixup.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Not really sure why you're talking about "retconning" or cults "being bestowed the Tyranid faction for allies purposes". If they do get their own Codex, they're guaranteed to be BB with Tyranids.

My reference to retconning comes from your fluff evidence that PDF don't have Leman Russ', therefore GS cults won't have access to them. It would seem far more likely that a GS cult codex would have some units borrowed from the IG codex, and since the last thing the Tyranids needs is more cheap hordes, vehicles would be a likely addition to make GS cults useful as Tyranid Battle Brothers.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Ah, appreciated. Didn't know how PDFs were generally equipped.

PDF's aren't "generally equipped" with anything. There's no formal structure to a planetary defence force. What they have is based on whatever world they're from. Primitive world? You're going to have guys with spears. Feudal world? Welcome to a PDF filled with knights and footmen.

And whatever the PDF has, I don't think Mr. Carnifex is going to see a couple of Brood Brethren and go "Friend! No eat!". Nah, he'll chomp them just as he would any non-Tyranid organism.

JonWebb wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I hope there's a limo. In fact I hope the game is about the limo driver. You'd have to drive around picking up and dropping off important cult members on their various errands while avoiding the Arbites, Deathwatch and parking tickets. On the last mission you have to drive the Patriarch, but you have to be quick because there's a random chance each round that he'll get hungry and eat you.

You know, this sounds really good.

Why does 40k always have to focus on the violence?

Maybe an Agricola reskin where you farm nutrient algae on Valhalla?

Nah, not infuriatingly futile enough; set it during the Ork invasion of Valhalla and make it a Tharsis clone - oh dear, one of your farmers has rolled badly and uncovered a nest of Squigs, looks like he's a dead'un

 Januine wrote:
A 40K farming or work in a manufactorum sim.........i'd probably end up playing it ><

SimHive

Has to be better than EAs trash remake of Sim-City

There was a (not in any way GW supported) print and play game on Boardgame awhile back that was called Cleanse the Stars, which was a re-themed Pandemic, where you are iconic 40k archetypes (Inquisitor, Astartes, Mechanicum, etc) stopping 4 major threats (Orks, Necrons, Chaos, Tyramids) from spreading across the Imperium instead of the real game's diseases across the cities of the world.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't think Mr. Carnifex is going to see a couple of Brood Brethren and go "Friend! No eat!". Nah, he'll chomp them just as he would any non-Tyranid organism.

When under Synapse, the Carnifex is under the direction of the Hive Mind. So will be the Cult when in Synapse. They will act as the Tyranid swarm, and will be considered Tyranids (not to mention most of them will probably have Tyranid/Genestealer DNA within them). Out of Synapse, probably dinner time.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Januine wrote:
A 40K farming or work in a manufactorum sim.........i'd probably end up playing it ><

SimHive

Has to be better than EAs trash remake of Sim-City

I uninstalled it and started spending time watching each layer of wash dry on my Word Bearers, the game was that bad.

Warhams-77 wrote:
I read this misconception a few times here... cultists are manipulated humans, parents, PDF forces etc.

But Sad Panda pointed out there are Hybrid(-like) troops. They get born by (Genestealer) infected humans. Genetically they are now alien beasts mixed with the hosts DNA.

Early generation hybrids look a lot like Genestealers. Later ones get more human and can use weapons like firearms. The fourth looks mostly like a human and is highly psychic (called Magus). There are four hybrid generations, with new Genestealers being the fifth one and starting the cycle anew. This has not much to do with Tyranid forces. Except growing Genestealer Cults send a beacon to Tyranids through space - but it takes ages until they arrive.

The original 1st Ed Genestealer army was a two-part army list. One part, the Genestealer Cult, was heavily connected to Chaos worshippers and similiar rebellious forces. The other one, the Invasion Force, was basically a small, growing Genestealer brood (lacking the Magus for example). The 3rd Ed GC focused afaik more on the rebellion type - combining the Hybrid cycle and human rebels but minus Chaos. The original cycle was still there and never got retconned.

Genestealers scout for the Tyranids without knowing - create a cult lead by the oldest one - and draw in Tyranid forces with their psychic beacons growing with the amount of Hybrids, Mind Slaves (like the parents of the Hybrids) in a Cult, and the power of the Broodlord and his Magus.

The first edition GC playstyle was very cool and unique. Fluffwise a new, combined GC and Tyranid army list would only focus on a few days of up to hundreds of years of a Patriarchs life and the Cult.

Not sure if this limitation would be satisfying for Genestealer Cult players. The arrival of the Tyranids is basically the end of the Cult - and that would mean skipping much of the more interesting times of growing a cult and starting the actual rebellion that weakens the planet's population and its defenses.

The new Codex: Harlequins had some pretty unusual rules like the Deathjesters' way of manipulating enemy forces and I can see GW bringing that type of gameplay back for GC as well.

They were basically the Puppetmasters of 1st ed - part of a squad of Genestealers paralyzing an enemy unit via eye contact (a kind of psychic dominance) and the other charging the helpless foe. There were also insta-kill attacks (Facehugger-like) and other elements.

Current Genestealers are only a shadow of their former self.

With the Magus and Broodlord they had very potent psykers too. Some RT spells (rulebook lists for all armies) were overpowered anyway, but they made GC a serious threat.

Also RT's hidden deployment mechanic made infiltrators much better. You had to detect them by getting nearby. Genestealer units could get rules that prevent them from getting attacked until you are within 12". This would make them much better. The Leviathan Dataslate formation that lets them deploy in ruins seems to be a step in the direction a Genestealer Cult army could play like.

Harlequins get a kind of additional game turn. Why not bring back the older elements of the GC cult?

Wow. Thanks for all that, that all sounds amazing!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Ah, appreciated. Didn't know how PDFs were generally equipped.

PDF's aren't "generally equipped" with anything. There's no formal structure to a planetary defence force. What they have is based on whatever world they're from. Primitive world? You're going to have guys with spears. Feudal world? Welcome to a PDF filled with knights and footmen.

And whatever the PDF has, I don't think Mr. Carnifex is going to see a couple of Brood Brethren and go "Friend! No eat!". Nah, he'll chomp them just as he would any non-Tyranid organism.

As Carnikang says,

Carnikang wrote:
When under Synapse, the Carnifex is under the direction of the Hive Mind. So will be the Cult when in Synapse. They will act as the Tyranid swarm, and will be considered Tyranids (not to mention most of them will probably have Tyranid/Genestealer DNA within them). Out of Synapse, probably dinner time.

Plus thanks to the new codex a Carnifex(or any model with IB:Feed) will eat other Carnifexes out of synapse just as well as anything else it stumbles across.

Time to root these guys out and repaint methinks.....

 Sinful Hero wrote:

As Carnikang says,

Carnikang wrote:
When under Synapse, the Carnifex is under the direction of the Hive Mind. So will be the Cult when in Synapse. They will act as the Tyranid swarm, and will be considered Tyranids (not to mention most of them will probably have Tyranid/Genestealer DNA within them). Out of Synapse, probably dinner time.

Plus thanks to the new codex a Carnifex(or any model with IB:Feed) will eat other Carnifexes out of synapse just as well as anything else it stumbles across.

The non-Hybrid/Genestealer members of the Cult are still human. Synapse wouldn't apply.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

As Carnikang says,

Carnikang wrote:
When under Synapse, the Carnifex is under the direction of the Hive Mind. So will be the Cult when in Synapse. They will act as the Tyranid swarm, and will be considered Tyranids (not to mention most of them will probably have Tyranid/Genestealer DNA within them). Out of Synapse, probably dinner time.

Plus thanks to the new codex a Carnifex(or any model with IB:Feed) will eat other Carnifexes out of synapse just as well as anything else it stumbles across.

The non-Hybrid/Genestealer members of the Cult are still human. Synapse wouldn't apply.

Synapse would apply to the Carnifex to keep them from eating the humans. I seem to recall that the "still human" cult members still had their DNA slightly altered by the 'stealers so that they start the Genestealers breeding chain, and were also slightly enthralled. That's just from my vague recollection of a Black Library book though, so I may have missed some details.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

As Carnikang says,

Carnikang wrote:
When under Synapse, the Carnifex is under the direction of the Hive Mind. So will be the Cult when in Synapse. They will act as the Tyranid swarm, and will be considered Tyranids (not to mention most of them will probably have Tyranid/Genestealer DNA within them). Out of Synapse, probably dinner time.

Plus thanks to the new codex a Carnifex(or any model with IB:Feed) will eat other Carnifexes out of synapse just as well as anything else it stumbles across.

The non-Hybrid/Genestealer members of the Cult are still human. Synapse wouldn't apply.

The human part of the cult also seems to be part of the cult's brood mind, with them being practically slaves to their non-human familiars.

I can't wait for this.

Please please let there be a cult limo. I want to model the driver after Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber complete with crossed eyes