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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas


Except, you are missing the point behind my posts, throughout high school, through CC, and even in university, I was told constantly "Go to college to get a good job, study what you love and you will make money" by a system funded by by people that exist only to make money off degree farms.
My generation was spoonfed lie, after lie after lie, and when we complain about it, all we hear is "BOOTSTRAPS"


Here's something thats going to freak people out.

I agree with him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Nobody wants you default on your loan. They don't get money if you don't pay your loans off.

Ok, why are other loans forgivable? But student loans are not?


You are assuming that forgiveness should always be an option. You should only borrow money if you are going to pay it back. Borrowing with the intent to not pay it back is wrong, its really nothing more than theft.


NO. Its a risk of business. Its just a contract like any other.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 18:55:07


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

So my takeaway for this is I am a Gen-X and have some awesomeness mixed in with some baggage to do with that?

It blows my mind that I can tell people "I am older than the internet!" and it makes me sound like a 1000 years old.

Meanwhile, I regularly talk to those where there always was the internet, it does not promote remembering much.

It blows my mind how well I can do math in my head compared to the younger generations, but back in public school they said "You need to know this, you will not be walking around with a calculator on you.". How wrong they were.

There was a time I imagined that fitting an album on something the size and shape of a domino would be AWESOME... now you can fit your whole collection in one.

It is funny having to remind my son not to try to B.S. on things because anyone at that moment can check and see if what you said is true.

I think the biggest innovation is the instant connectivity coupled with the "smart phone".
I had the first Palm Pilot when it came out.
Not much different in function than a smartphone, without the phone or internet connection.
Now you can pretty much do anything from that phone that took multiple devices for me to do in my teens.

I dunno, each "generation" has it's own challenges, just helping my kids find ways to verify facts is far more challenging than it used to be for me.

I "think" my generation was a bit more concerned with "how" things work, I still like getting into the settings and guts of a machine or electronic device.
I find the newer generation is dealing with technology that are more devices and are now "power users" less concerned with how it works and more with getting it to do what is needed.

Spreadsheets were the kung-fu skills as well as programming to have for corporate.
Now it is more "social media" management and exposure: we are better connected than ever so managing your brand while under a microscope is key.

Anyway: I am caveman that hangs out in MY basement and takes fuzzy stick to models and push them around while dreaming of more heroic locations and times.
Plus I sail, scuba-dive and go to nice warm places south and do silly things like zip-line because you need to feel more alive on occasion.

Meanwhile I will try to figure out my tiny cavemen children and teach them what wonders I have discovered of the age we live in now so they do not have their lunch-bit-coins wirelessly hacked from their electronic lockers. Or whatever new version of an old problem comes along.

Wow, nice self absorbed diatribe there... sorry for the inconvenience...

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 19:09:02


A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

 Frazzled wrote:

Except, you are missing the point behind my posts, throughout high school, through CC, and even in university, I was told constantly "Go to college to get a good job, study what you love and you will make money" by a system funded by by people that exist only to make money off degree farms.
My generation was spoonfed lie, after lie after lie, and when we complain about it, all we hear is "BOOTSTRAPS"


Here's something thats going to freak people out.

I agree with him.


The higher education marketplace will undoubtedly see a few corrections in coming years as young people start getting smarter about their educational decisions.


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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Its already started.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

@Talizvar

As a 6Sigma guy, spreadsheets and graphs are still the Kung-fu skills of the corporate world.

Social media is the Kung-fu of the marketing world.

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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

 Sigvatr wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Probably because we are stuck in a gakky world screwed up by the generations before us with no regard for the future of anything? And being stuck in the proverbial "Iron Cage" of being expected to work for the main motivation of profit and nothing else with the goal being study not something you love, do something you love, but to get money?


Ehm, that's just wrong. You can study whatever you like and nooone's gonna stop you from doing so. If you study stuff like Theatre, Fine Arts or Gender studies, however, you need to be aware that this isn't going to earn you money and thus be happy with a low-end standard of living. You are not useful to anyone with such a degree, so why would anyone pay you?


The subject matter is not always as important as the skills you develop. A mechanical engineer, electrical engineer and chemical process engineer will pick up vastly different knowledge but will generally learn and develop the same kinds of skills. Similarly, analytical thinking is a component of many subjects beyond the obvious ones.

There are plenty of fields where having a good quality, general degree in anything will be beneficial as the knowledge required to perform the job is not really something you can pick up from anywhere other than doing the job. However, the skills required to do well in the role are certainly ones that most people will develop doing any kind of degree.

Besides, it is relatively cheap to run certain degrees; they help to pay for the ones which need expensive kit

   
Made in us
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Easy E wrote:
@Talizvar

As a 6Sigma guy, spreadsheets and graphs are still the Kung-fu skills of the corporate world.

Social media is the Kung-fu of the marketing world.


Indeed. Three years of various classes which all boiled down to excel skills is proof. And companies telling schools to teach people to use excel.

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Made in us
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Catskills in NYS

 gorgon wrote:


The higher education marketplace will undoubtedly see a few corrections in coming years as young people start getting smarter about their educational decisions.


I've seen this just with my group of friends and the SUNY system. They were once just reguarded as "back-up" schools, but they are now oftentimes peoples first choice. These state-funded schools provide education at the same level of private schools, but far cheaper. They might not have the prestige, but they have everything else, and as they are all connected, you get lots of advantages that private schools don't, and state-funded works, ect. The Nano-Utica initiative is building a giant clean room and micro-processed production facility right in the SUNY-poly campus, which gives something private schools would very much struggle to match.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
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Oz

Er, where's generation Y on that chart?

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Y do you ask?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

 Torga_DW wrote:
Er, where's generation Y on that chart?


They all died in the Y Wars :(

   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

If you want to make money here are some of the best legal ways to do it:

1. Be born to a rich family.
2. Banker.
3. Invest in property.
4. Politician.
5. Executive in a medium to large size company.
6. High ranking official in some government agency.
7. Accountant.
8. High level sports person, but not one of the amateur codes like rowing.

You will notice that jobs like engineer, doctor, and bacteriologist aren't on this list. That is because they demand a lot of education and dedication, and don't pay very well.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 Frazzled wrote:

Except, you are missing the point behind my posts, throughout high school, through CC, and even in university, I was told constantly "Go to college to get a good job, study what you love and you will make money" by a system funded by by people that exist only to make money off degree farms.
My generation was spoonfed lie, after lie after lie, and when we complain about it, all we hear is "BOOTSTRAPS"


Here's something thats going to freak people out.

I agree with him.

Well, that was unexpected, I thought you would yell at me too about being whiny


 Grey Templar wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Nobody wants you default on your loan. They don't get money if you don't pay your loans off.

Ok, why are other loans forgivable? But student loans are not?


You are assuming that forgiveness should always be an option. You should only borrow money if you are going to pay it back. Borrowing with the intent to not pay it back is wrong, its really nothing more than theft.


NO. Its a risk of business. Its just a contract like any other.
It also is bad because, every other loan you can default on, but student loans you cant.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Private student loans you can default on. Government insured loans - you used to be able to. Then the government took them over more directly and voila. Like tax bills you can't void them in Bankruptcy court.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Nobody wants you default on your loan. They don't get money if you don't pay your loans off.

Ok, why are other loans forgivable? But student loans are not?

Because most of the school loans are backed by the government

If I remember correctly, in the 70's it was "a thing" to graduate from college and then declare bankruptcy to discharge all loans (including school).

EDIT: ninja'ed by the grandmasta

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 22:29:53


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas


Well, that was unexpected, I thought you would yell at me too about being whiny


CHE and IHE are filled with articles by professors/admin trying to justify costs and the Humanities. Thats a leading indicator something's up.


They are the same arguments law schools used while churning out the great surplus of lawyers. Its just a scam like any other. Ride the demand until the the demand falls.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 Frazzled wrote:
Private student loans you can default on. Government insured loans - you used to be able to. Then the government took them over more directly and voila. Like tax bills you can't void them in Bankruptcy court.


The whole thing is changing as we speak. We're trying to learn all the rules right now with my wife's.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

If I remember correctly, in the 70's it was "a thing" to graduate from college and then declare bankruptcy to discharge all loans (including school).


Back in the seventies if you couldn't pay student loans something was seriously wrong. Tuition was much lower and they had something called jobs back then. When the underemployment rate is still above 10%, there's something wrong. Quick someone put Trump on TV for a distraction!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 djones520 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Private student loans you can default on. Government insured loans - you used to be able to. Then the government took them over more directly and voila. Like tax bills you can't void them in Bankruptcy court.


The whole thing is changing as we speak. We're trying to learn all the rules right now with my wife's.


Yep. I'm running through Spring 2017 for the Boy and Dog knows what school GC wants to start staging her first protests as a SJW at.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 22:34:59


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 djones520 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Private student loans you can default on. Government insured loans - you used to be able to. Then the government took them over more directly and voila. Like tax bills you can't void them in Bankruptcy court.


The whole thing is changing as we speak. We're trying to learn all the rules right now with my wife's.

You essentially have to convince the Bankruptcy Courts that it would be an excessive burden to repay the school loans. It's possible, but it's an extremely high bar to get this. You'd almost have to be out of work for more than a year to get this...

The standard is that they'd steer you towards a Chapter 7 (most debt is immediately discharged) or Chapter 13 (put you on a 5 yr play to repay *some* of the debt). Chapter 13 is where they'd steer you if you make any consistent money and any non-school debt can be put on a pmt plan that pays pennies to the dollar of the debt during that 5 yr period. In the mean time, any school loans that were originally backed by the government would be "put on hold" until after the 5 yr period is over... then, you go back to the original pmt schedule.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in fr
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





I started to reply, and then I remembered that private schools are so much more expensive in the US than here.

Scientia potentia est.

In girum imus nocte ecce et consumimur igni.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 LethalShade wrote:
I started to reply, and then I remembered that private schools are so much more expensive in the US than here.

It's insane. I have two boys...

'Tis why I've been harping blue collar jobs.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

That's why I harp on about state-collages. Just paying for peoples collages will never work, as private compaines will just jacl up the prices even more, but make them compete against far cheaper schools, and down go the prices. Still expensive (like 18K a year all told for mine), but nowhere near the cost of private ones.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Guys, next is gen z. After that we run out of letters........ is this the end the mayans predicted?

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

We'll loan you å, ä, and ö so that we can squeeze another three generations in. By the time we run out of letters again, all of us will have croaked it, so it won't be our problem!


That's how you solve these problems, right?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Frazzled wrote:
Private student loans you can default on. Government insured loans - you used to be able to. Then the government took them over more directly and voila. Like tax bills you can't void them in Bankruptcy court.


Your facts are right but I'd like to clarify how you structured that sentence, in regards to how your timeline is likely to be read - there were stages. The federal government made their portion unable to be discharged in the late 70s. Private loans were able to successfully get such protection in 2005 after much lobbying - previous to this, private loans could still be discharged. The "government took them over more directly" is much more recent (2010) and didn't affect bankruptcy further.

What actually happened is relatively good, in my opinion: the government began to administer government backed loans directly. Previously (when I worked at a college, I don't know how far back it went), a private bank would issue you a loan that had a government guarantee (they also offered private, non-government-backed loans if you'd hit your cap or lost your eligibility for student loans or whatever). They'd take the money from interest, as with all loans. However, if the student defaulted, the government would make the lender whole and then pursue the loan. There was no risk to the bank - it was, in essence, corporate welfare. Now the government gets the interest, and the government takes the risk. Whether or not the government should be in the student loan business at all is for another thread, but I think any reasonable person could probably agree that the preceding setup where the taxpayer took all the risk while shareholders pocketed all the rewards was fairly jacked.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/09 08:17:23


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in fr
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
We'll loan you å, ä, and ö so that we can squeeze another three generations in. By the time we run out of letters again, all of us will have croaked it, so it won't be our problem!


That's how you solve these problems, right?


Gen AA, AB, et cætera.

(Or we can use hexadecimal)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 08:09:25


Scientia potentia est.

In girum imus nocte ecce et consumimur igni.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Ouze wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Private student loans you can default on. Government insured loans - you used to be able to. Then the government took them over more directly and voila. Like tax bills you can't void them in Bankruptcy court.


Your facts are right but I'd like to clarify how you structured that sentence, in regards to how your timeline is likely to be read - there were stages. The federal government made their portion unable to be discharged in the late 70s. Private loans were able to successfully get such protection in 2005 after much lobbying - previous to this, private loans could still be discharged. The "government took them over more directly" is much more recent (2010) and didn't affect bankruptcy further.

What actually happened is relatively good, in my opinion: the government began to administer government backed loans directly. Previously (when I worked at a college, I don't know how far back it went), a private bank would issue you a loan that had a government guarantee (they also offered private, non-government-backed loans if you'd hit your cap or lost your eligibility for student loans or whatever). They'd take the money from interest, as with all loans. However, if the student defaulted, the government would make the lender whole and then pursue the loan. There was no risk to the bank - it was, in essence, corporate welfare. Now the government gets the interest, and the government takes the risk. Whether or not the government should be in the student loan business at all is for another thread, but I think any reasonable person could probably agree that the preceding setup where the taxpayer took all the risk while shareholders pocketed all the rewards was fairly jacked.



Actually you still can get completely private loans.

It really is much better now. Instead of discharging my debts and getting a fresh start I now have the full power of the government insuring I get to pay and pay and pay.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 12:07:15


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

In the UK apprenticeships are making a comeback as an alternative to university. But these modern apprenticeships are not the traditional thing of 16 year olds joining OJT style positions in skilled labour. It's more like the Accountancy career path in which you start as a basic clerk, study and take another set of exams every year or two until eventually you get to CIMA level three or whatever is the top.

The company pays your salary, contributes to your tuitiion fees, and promotes you when you gain a new qualification.

The attraction of starting a reasonably well-paid job at 19, and getting a degree and automatic promotion with no university study debts is obvious. Naturally, it is the highest fliers who are getting offered these apprenticeships.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

 Frazzled wrote:

Yep. I'm running through Spring 2017 for the Boy and Dog knows what school GC wants to start staging her first protests as a SJW at.



Oh feth me , you mean the next generation is going to feature some firebrand for whom humour doesn't feature in their discourse?
GC, invading bullockists safe spaces since 2016.

She's appropriating lawyer culture.

btw frazz if she becomes an SJW you know her college boyfriend is going to be an unemployable,humanities studying, drug using miscreant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 12:54:21


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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Bullockist wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:

Yep. I'm running through Spring 2017 for the Boy and Dog knows what school GC wants to start staging her first protests as a SJW at.



Oh feth me , you mean the next generation is going to feature some firebrand for whom humour doesn't feature in their discourse?
GC, invading bullockists safe spaces since 2016.

She's appropriating lawyer culture.

btw frazz if she becomes an SJW you know her college boyfriend is going to be an unemployable,humanities studying, drug using miscreant.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
 
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