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This is my understanding of Cogger in character. EoN's citadel is crushed by mine and Chazz's army but the siege is down to provide enough manpower for that.

I know what transpired Drakka but there is talks of changes happening to it, whether they will occur or not i want to know for sure before i go ahead and write a piece on it.

Whatever it is, the Imperium won. The only question is how it's written up and the extent to which the defenders are defeated.

I agree smudge, id expect my marines to be defending at least the bottom of the spire if not the top of it, just to let you guys know EoN was not planning on summoning a daemon with that ritual but just in case he returns i will say no more

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Whatever it is, the Imperium won. The only question is how it's written up and the extent to which the defenders are defeated.

A single major victory should not have let Chazz do what he did.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Whatever it is, the Imperium won. The only question is how it's written up and the extent to which the defenders are defeated.

A single major victory should not have let Chazz do what he did.

If the net Imperial roll was higher than the Chaos Alliance roll, the Imperium still win.

I don't think we're saying that it was that single Major Victory that won it, but rather the Major Victory alongside a slew of good Imperial rolls did.

If anyone has the data on what was rolled per faction in the battle, that would be appreciated?

EDIT: I mean, suppose a situation with three combatants either side of the battlefield with players A, B and C allied vs players D, E and F, all rolling off to see who did best.

Player A gets a Victory
Player B gets a Defeat
Player C gets a Draw

Player D gets a Minor Defeat
Player E gets a Major Victory
Player F gets a Minor Defeat
Now, assume we put values on this, with Major Victory as 3, Victory as 2, Minor Victory as 1, Draw as 0, Minor Defeat as -1, Defeat as -2 and Major Defeat as -3.

If we count up the values, Team ABC gets a net score of 0.
However, Team DEF gets a score of 1, with the Major Victory tipping it over the edge to secure a win over all.
This way, all scores would add up, so all players were essential. However, it could only really work with evenly matched teams unless the GM was happy to have team imbalances and lead to more emphasis on allied teamwork.

Upon reflection it was handled badly, I mean if the imperium could have just stormed the spire why didn't they do so all along ? But I digress we have to live with the imperial victory and try and patch it up, perhaps they could take heavy casualties ?

True, it's a bit of a stretch to have that one roll decide the entirety of Cogger. What we could do is say that while the Imperials managed to steamroll the Chaos forces in their path to the central spire, the rest of the city is still heavily contested. The cultists would obviously be in disarray after having their main stronghold taken, but the Chaos marines would probably try to either escape the city or attempt to hold out as long as possible.

And who knows? Maybe the Imperials' victory at the spire was part of the Flayed Legion's plan all along...

Perhaps we should pm each other Ezra ? Maybe come up with a plan for our marines on what they did in Coggers aftermath?

If by 'plan' you mean 'a cunning scheme to feth the Loyalists', I'm all ears

 Irishpeacockz wrote:
Upon reflection it was handled badly, I mean if the imperium could have just stormed the spire why didn't they do so all along ? But I digress we have to live with the imperial victory and try and patch it up, perhaps they could take heavy casualties ?

A reason the IOM might not have taken the spire could have been because they needed to morale to make a big push towards it and co-ordinate an attack strike towards it.

Well, the issue with the Imperium taking heavy casualties is that if they rolled that well, they shouldn't take big casualties. I would more mean to the extent of how many defenders were able to flee and live to fight another day, rather than flat out killing.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Well, the issue with the Imperium taking heavy casualties is that if they rolled that well, they shouldn't take big casualties. I would more mean to the extent of how many defenders were able to flee and live to fight another day, rather than flat out killing.

This. Also, one could wonder why the spire was that easy to take, given that it was the main stronghold for three Chaos forces prior to being assaulted, and it having been identified as quite capable of withstanding a siege. One might even suggest that it was a little bit too easy... especially since big baddie Father Lazarus was nowhere in sight during the entire battle.

ALMOST DONE MY POST! I'm debating on having some funky old Mongrel's have vangard and lurk within the ruins of Arcadis Bay. AMBUSH! Hehe

For now I'll just drop a post and decide later after things are resolved.

Slaanesh worshiping Marines probably get some of the weirdest gifts.

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Well, the issue with the Imperium taking heavy casualties is that if they rolled that well, they shouldn't take big casualties. I would more mean to the extent of how many defenders were able to flee and live to fight another day, rather than flat out killing.

This. Also, one could wonder why the spire was that easy to take, given that it was the main stronghold for three Chaos forces prior to being assaulted, and it having been identified as quite capable of withstanding a siege. One might even suggest that it was a little bit too easy... especially since big baddie Father Lazarus was nowhere in sight during the entire battle.

Big daddy Laz was hittin' it up with the dragon last time I checked.

Actually, the last we saw of him was when he met the other Chaos leaders, which happened shortly after his rendezvous with the dragon.

So we have the Flayed Legion, the Black Legion, and Kharne's Necrons versus... the Inquisition. It isn't exactly a fair fight for the Imperium there.

Well, it isn't completely like that. Kharne's Necrons nope'd out of Cogger a while ago I think, and there weren't any Flayed Legionnaires in the city, only Lazarus and his own troops (and the cultists he raised from the local population, of course). Then there's a couple of my Black Legionnaires and Irish's cultists/Terminators, but neither of them has enough numbers to make a big difference.

And the Imperial side consisted of some IG regiments as well, although I can't remember whose armies they were.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
So we have the Flayed Legion, the Black Legion, and Kharne's Necrons versus... the Inquisition. It isn't exactly a fair fight for the Imperium there.

Inquisition supported by Grey Knights, Penal Conscripts, Drakka's entire regiment, and I'm fairly sure there was a Chapter involved somewhere?
The Necrons were a small taskforce anyways.

Besides, we never took force sizes into consideration in the previous CoF. Let's face it, we had cases of outnumbered forces easily securing wins (see the conflict against the Hybrids and the Ork win on Gallor Prime, or even the fact the horribly outnumbered Pavus loyalists won the campaign, beating the far more numerous Zonand loyalists AND Chaos/Xenos alliance).
Whichever team rolled best, wins. I'm not advocating any factions should be decimated as bad as the Flayed Legion were, but if the IOM rolled well, they deserve to win. Turning it to less of a curbstomp and more of a decisive strike forcing the Chaos inhabitants to lose morale, cut their losses and flee works best.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
So we have the Flayed Legion, the Black Legion, and Kharne's Necrons versus... the Inquisition. It isn't exactly a fair fight for the Imperium there.

Inquisition supported by Grey Knights, Penal Conscripts, Drakka's entire regiment, and I'm fairly sure there was a Chapter involved somewhere?
The Necrons were a small taskforce anyways.

Besides, we never took force sizes into consideration in the previous CoF. Let's face it, we had cases of outnumbered forces easily securing wins (see the conflict against the Hybrids and the Ork win on Gallor Prime, or even the fact the horribly outnumbered Pavus loyalists won the campaign, beating the far more numerous Zonand loyalists AND Chaos/Xenos alliance).
Whichever team rolled best, wins. I'm not advocating any factions should be decimated as bad as the Flayed Legion were, but if the IOM rolled well, they deserve to win. Turning it to less of a curbstomp and more of a decisive strike forcing the Chaos inhabitants to lose morale, cut their losses and flee works best.

I'm more concerned about the fact that EoN, as he stated, turned into the NPC punching bag.

Which is what we're trying to rectify. Irish and I are going to try to work something out, so we can write about the attack from the perspective of our respective forces in Cogger, hopefully bringing a bit more closure to the entire situation.

Well, my force size is pretty freaking petite compared to everyone else. I'm dropping in a vangard company of Abhumans and when I get more established, I'll drop the whole damn regiment. So for now, my force size is 330.

See, I don't like that, personally. There's no reason EoN's faction should be the disignated punching bag. Honestly, if that's the case, I'm asking if I can write them out of the current conflict. I know I don't know the guy but I'd rather not someone take advantage of his leave just to make their own guys look invincible.

I know I don't know much about the whole dynamics of what went on before the Inquisition victory roll but just for moving on purposes I agree with Sgt. Smudge.

Lets say it wasn't a steam roll of decimation but a Victory assualt on a HQ and who's ever factions that are still playing play off either it was a clever ruse, a way to spread out now it managed to draw all the siege forces off the encirclment. Or do whatever good choas armies do.

No-one is saying ANYONE'S force, bar NPC factions, be a punching bag, and no-one's condoning it. But if a faction won fair and square, they won, and people will win and lose. The extent to which EoN's guys suffered was out of proportion, but they still should have lost. Fleeing, broken, demoralised - just not as battered as they were.

The "punching bag" issue is not restrained to Cogger, but was meant to illustrate a long series of the Flayed Legion getting the short end of the stick in the name of Chazz's army doing well. A lot of it was shady, has already been discussed, and already dealt with.

The biggest problem with Cogger was that one player, in a battlefield of at least six armies, decided they were going to make the end-all roll and turn a simple Victory result into the annihilation of another army and the capture of arguably the biggest battlefield in the Crusade. My personal feelings aside, that was unfair to everyone else involved.

 TheEyeOfNight wrote:
The "punching bag" issue is not restrained to Cogger, but was meant to illustrate a long series of the Flayed Legion getting the short end of the stick in the name of Chazz's army doing well. A lot of it was shady, has already been discussed, and already dealt with.

The biggest problem with Cogger was that one player, in a battlefield of at least six armies, decided they were going to make the end-all roll and turn a simple Victory result into the annihilation of another army and the capture of arguably the biggest battlefield in the Crusade. My personal feelings aside, that was unfair to everyone else involved.

Which is improper, as we (I hope) all agree. Again, I'm not sure what the actual series of rolls was, but I'd hope that everyone involved made a single roll to determine their success, and according to the victory, that the Imperium had the best net result. However, that should not be taken to mean that a single faction did all the leg work themselves, and was a joint effort.

So I had no clue what was happening except chazz said he was ending the battlefield. Because I actually had a swcond army onbthe way to Cogger and had planned on keeping the seige up for awhile. I changed my idea and followed along the whole assualt thing just to end my own writer's block. Hince besides the deaths of my guys against the lizardmen I stayed pretty vague and just followed what Chazz had already posted that my men would be doing.

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:
Well, it isn't completely like that. Kharne's Necrons nope'd out of Cogger a while ago I think, and there weren't any Flayed Legionnaires in the city, only Lazarus and his own troops (and the cultists he raised from the local population, of course). Then there's a couple of my Black Legionnaires and Irish's cultists/Terminators, but neither of them has enough numbers to make a big difference.

And the Imperial side consisted of some IG regiments as well, although I can't remember whose armies they were.

Just to clarify I didnt have any terminators present. I have a few cultists/pestigors and about 50 plague marines which is half of a space marine company, as ezra said we are forming a piece from The chaos point of view. But let us not forget about the Eldar or the lizard men that were present too, there was like 7 or 8 people involved in Cogger and they should get a say in how it ends

MONGREL'S ATTACK! Kinda

I hope you all enjoy my crummy rag tag force and may the God Emperor not kill them all... Please, don't kill them all. Hehe

Um who are they attacking and where on Crion or its moons are they?

We have like 5 choas factions running around.

Basically trying to hinder and chip away at Gore with mediocrity. I just messaged him, as well.

My small relief company is trying to do their part... I hope no Chaos Space Marines pop out of no where and butt feth them all. That all goes for you Space Shark Man, I've read the Badab War. Hehe