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In mathhammer number of hits and wounds vs save



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I actually think your version of a free -1 reduction in cover might be more powerful then it already is. Sure I'll take a free -1 cover when the majority of the time units have 5+ intervening cover. I'll then use that marker light I haven't used yet to increase my BS and thus inflicting even more damage because I have more hits to wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe as someone else mentioned a fair compromise would be reduced cover to a worse save of 6+ in terrain.

Maybe another option scour removes stealth and shrouded.

Again tho I feel like there are going to be other balance issues with however you change it.

All in all, your talking about 6 marker light hits in the average list a turn. So a max of 3 targets being removed cover. That's really not that crazy.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
In mathhammer number of hits and wounds vs save

And in mathhammer, you put forth all of the variables you used. He's just throwing out numbers.
What units were firing at the "lightly armored units in cover"? Was there any template/blast weaponry in there?

I actually think your version of a free -1 reduction in cover might be more powerful then it already is. Sure I'll take a free -1 cover when the majority of the time units have 5+ intervening cover. I'll then use that marker light I haven't used yet to increase my BS and thus inflicting even more damage because I have more hits to wound.

Sure, when you're only playing "5+ intervening cover" that might seem exceedingly powerful. But for units that right now just get their entire cover save wiped out by 2 Markerlight Counters?
That's a marked increase in their survivability going from "No Saves Allowed" to "6+ Save".

That's not taking into account things like Stealth or Shrouded or special rules like Bullgryn Slabshields.

Maybe as someone else mentioned a fair compromise would be reduced cover to a worse save of 6+ in terrain.

A "fair compromise" is that Markerlights have to wound and cannot target units in terrain.

Maybe another option scour removes stealth and shrouded.

Again tho I feel like there are going to be other balance issues with however you change it.

Well yeah, of course there are going to be issues to work out when you change things.

All in all, your talking about 6 marker light hits in the average list a turn. So a max of 3 targets being removed cover. That's really not that crazy.

A max of 3 targets losing ALL cover and being potentially shot at by 3+ units at a boosted Ballistic Skill.

Yeah. It kinda is that crazy.

That's not at all a fair compromise lol. What str and ap would markerlighrs be? Would they be something like poison? I thnk a 50% hit rate is already fair enough.

Not allowing to hit units in terrain is also kinda silly.

If you combine fire your focusing on fewer units. So essentially it's worse against MSU armies.

It's pretty obvious your set in exactly what you want.. and nothing said will make any difference.

You both know that Markerlights are heavy 1 right?

Markers being heavy only affects Pathfinders and Firewarrior Shas'ui that take a Markerlight + Targetlocks. Everything else that can get them are relentless.

And i agree with Grizzyzz: making Markers not hit units in terrain is plain stupid. Since when do you never have terrain cover unless youre about to charge? If you have units not trying to charge out of terrain, you probably need more terrain in your game.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
You both know that Markerlights are heavy 1 right?

They also have 36" range. Being heavy doesn't really matter with such long range.
Not to mention that vehicles and drones can take markerlights as well.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
You both know that Markerlights are heavy 1 right?

They also have 36" range. Being heavy doesn't really matter with such long range.
Not to mention that vehicles and drones can take markerlights as well.

Just had to make sure. I had a buddy who never knew they were heavy.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Markers being heavy only affects Pathfinders and Firewarrior Shas'ui that take a Markerlight + Targetlocks. Everything else that can get them are relentless.

And i agree with Grizzyzz: making Markers not hit units in terrain is plain stupid. Since when do you never have terrain cover unless youre about to charge? If you have units not trying to charge out of terrain, you probably need more terrain in your game.

The Markerlights not hitting units in terrain was a continuation of something I'd said earlier; in that it should "mark" the terrain rather than the unit within.

If I point a SOFLAM at a building, unless you're dropping ordnance? It won't matter because the building is still in the way.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Markers being heavy only affects Pathfinders and Firewarrior Shas'ui that take a Markerlight + Targetlocks. Everything else that can get them are relentless.

And i agree with Grizzyzz: making Markers not hit units in terrain is plain stupid. Since when do you never have terrain cover unless youre about to charge? If you have units not trying to charge out of terrain, you probably need more terrain in your game.

The Markerlights not hitting units in terrain was a continuation of something I'd said earlier; in that it should "mark" the terrain rather than the unit within.

If I point a SOFLAM at a building, unless you're dropping ordnance? It won't matter because the building is still in the way.

How would that work in game though?
Markerlighting a building I can understand, because rules wise a building is more or less an immobile vehicle with a few extra rules, but against more ephemeral cover, such as a KFF?
It does seem logical, but I'm not sure how it work out mechanically.

KFF is an invulnerable save these days.

Oh is it now?
I hate getting my editions confused. Its the worst

KFF being an invul is literally the only GOOD change the Orks got. The other "good" change just made us spam Warbikers instead of Nobbikers so not like you missed much if you didnt get the ork dex.

If we go with markers can't hit people in terrain, we need to take a look at:
- blasts hitting every floor of a building
- blasts even effecting units in buildings.. I mean it just hits the wall right?
- templates only hitting units like they do through fire ports.. or not at all. Cause there is a wall in the way.

There are many things that don't make complete sense.. but make the game faster and sometimes less difficult.. sometimes.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
If we go with markers can't hit people in terrain, we need to take a look at:
- blasts hitting every floor of a building
- blasts even effecting units in buildings.. I mean it just hits the wall right?
- templates only hitting units like they do through fire ports.. or not at all. Cause there is a wall in the way.

There are many things that don't make complete sense.. but make the game faster and sometimes less difficult.. sometimes.

We can look at those when Markerlights don't affect a whole unit when one guy gets hit with a laser pointer.

I still say go back to the 4th edition rules, nobody complained about those.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I still say go back to the 4th edition rules, nobody complained about those.

Heh. This is Dakka. There are people who seriously complain Decurion isn't good enough, and Gladius doesn't give enough benefits...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I still say go back to the 4th edition rules, nobody complained about those.

Heh. This is Dakka. There are people who seriously complain Decurion isn't good enough, and Gladius doesn't give enough benefits...

Obsec Ironclads are awesome. Totally worth the 450 points