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 whembly wrote:
In the context of this thread... I believe the State would be better at managing public lands with respect to allowing ranchers use the land than some bureaucrat in D.C.

Except that is not what happens, and has been proven to be a bad idea the last time the feds handed land over to the locals to regulate.

Land developers incite bigots and anti-fed groups to form militias.

Land gets handed over to local politicians.

Local politicians either grant developers access or outright sell it to them to 'enrich' the local community.

For a short while, everyone seemingly gets rich, Land developers make billions off of formally public land.

Shortly after the land is gone, the little white people militias either get bought out, disenfranchised or both and the public land is destroyed and lost forever.


Go read about how well all of that 'hand over to the states' went in Illinois and other states on the border of that 'look at all that land!' map. The politicians sold it all to crooks who got stinking rich off it and none of the poor little militiamen got squat. They are nothing but ignorant pawns in a billionaire's game.

Local police and people who work at the refuge are apparently reporting that members of the militia/supporters of the militia have been following them to their homes and observing them/their family's movements.

Add stalking, harassment, and intimidation charges to the list.

Leave it to a bunch of anti-gov nuts to start acting like the Gestapo

 Kanluwen wrote:
Local police and people who work at the refuge are apparently reporting that members of the militia/supporters of the militia have been following them to their homes and observing them/their family's movements.

Add stalking, harassment, and intimidation charges to the list.

So they pretty much get to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whoever they want without repercussions. When are they going to do something about these guys, when the start collecting "Taxes" from the locals?

 Chongara wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Local police and people who work at the refuge are apparently reporting that members of the militia/supporters of the militia have been following them to their homes and observing them/their family's movements.

Add stalking, harassment, and intimidation charges to the list.

So they pretty much get to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whoever they want without repercussions. When are they going to do something about these guys, when the start collecting "Taxes" from the locals?

That is the way it works when you threaten people at gunpoint and promise violent responses to anyone who attempts to stop you in the name of self defense. They probably have the entire community thinking if you cross them a sniper will shoot you dead before you can blink.

If only there were armed groups standing up to armed groups standing up to the government.

nkelsch wrote:

 Chongara wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Local police and people who work at the refuge are apparently reporting that members of the militia/supporters of the militia have been following them to their homes and observing them/their family's movements.

Add stalking, harassment, and intimidation charges to the list.

So they pretty much get to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whoever they want without repercussions. When are they going to do something about these guys, when the start collecting "Taxes" from the locals?

That is the way it works when you threaten people at gunpoint and promise violent responses to anyone who attempts to stop you in the name of self defense. They probably have the entire community thinking if you cross them a sniper will shoot you dead before you can blink.

Isn't this dealing with this kind of situation the exact job description of the national guard? I'm hardly the guy with the world's most hawkish view of law enforcement but this situation just seems to be going beyond the pale. There are bands of armed peopled denying US Sovereignty while both patrolling US Soil and threatening US citizens as part of doing so.

Is it me, or are the Ranchers acting more entitled to free stuff than the welfare queens they decry taking their money?
We should have just droned the place........actually, why are we not doing that?

If only there were a single member of the New Black Panther Party there holding a stick!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Is it me, or are the Ranchers acting more entitled to free stuff than the welfare queens they decry taking their money?
We should have just droned the place........actually, why are we not doing that?

A tiny thing called 'due process'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
If only there were a single member of the New Black Panther Party there holding a stick!

Yep, cause that guy got executed by drone.

 CptJake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Is it me, or are the Ranchers acting more entitled to free stuff than the welfare queens they decry taking their money?
We should have just droned the place........actually, why are we not doing that?

A tiny thing called 'due process'.

That hasnt stopped people before.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Is it me, or are the Ranchers acting more entitled to free stuff than the welfare queens they decry taking their money?
We should have just droned the place........actually, why are we not doing that?

A tiny thing called 'due process'.

That hasnt stopped people before.

You'll have to show me where we have been killing US citizens on US soil via drone attacks. I missed the news coverage.

Like it or not, these guys are not engaged in a gun battle. Going in to kill them at this point via any mechanism, drone or not, is bull gak.

So, tell me, why is it fine to kill terrorists on foreign soil with drone strikes, but not on domestic? These boys are terrorists plain and simple and should be treated like all terrorists.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, tell me, why is it fine to kill terrorists on foreign soil with drone strikes, but not on domestic? These boys are terrorists plain and simple and should be treated like all terrorists.

You've got it backwards. Murdering people overseas is bad, so you should stop doing it, not just start murdering everyone.

These guys do not deserve to be murdered, and all murdering them would do is make the world that much worse.

 CptJake wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
If only there were a single member of the New Black Panther Party there holding a stick!

Yep, cause that guy got executed by drone.

I didn't say he was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, tell me, why is it fine to kill terrorists on foreign soil with drone strikes, but not on domestic? These boys are terrorists plain and simple and should be treated like all terrorists.

Because they haven't been charged with a crime, let alone convicted of anything. This can't be a serious question.

 Ouze wrote:


Because they haven't been charged with a crime, let alone convicted of anything. This can't be a serious question.

Someone should charge them all with a crime then and demand their surrender. Plenty of crimes have been committed to charge them with.

 Ouze wrote:
If only there were a single member of the New Black Panther Party there holding a stick!

If only there was a black teenager on a porch with a fake gun!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In related news:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/oregon-judge-plans-to-bill-ammon-bundy-up-to-70000-a-day-for-security-costs-to-county/

I'm sure he'll pay right up...

nkelsch wrote:
Someone should charge them all with a crime then and demand their surrender. Plenty of crimes have been committed to charge them with.

No argument whatsoever from me. My reluctance for the government to give them the bloodbath they are hoping for doesn't extend to them eluding justice. It was a mistake at the Bundy ranch and it would be a huge mistake here. They have engaged in a seditious conspiracy and should go to federal prison for a long time.

 d-usa wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
If only there were a single member of the New Black Panther Party there holding a stick!

If only there was a black teenager on a porch with a fake gun!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In related news:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/oregon-judge-plans-to-bill-ammon-bundy-up-to-70000-a-day-for-security-costs-to-county/

I'm sure he'll pay right up...

“We’re going to send Mr. Bundy the bill,” said Grasty, who criticized Republican lawmakers for meeting with the militants over the weekend.

Oh come on...

 LordofHats wrote:

“We’re going to send Mr. Bundy the bill,” said Grasty, who criticized Republican lawmakers for meeting with the militants over the weekend.

Oh come on...

Surely they will pay right up instead of putting the invoice in the shredder with the invoice for the next round of grazing fees...

 LordofHats wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
If only there were a single member of the New Black Panther Party there holding a stick!

If only there was a black teenager on a porch with a fake gun!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In related news:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/oregon-judge-plans-to-bill-ammon-bundy-up-to-70000-a-day-for-security-costs-to-county/

I'm sure he'll pay right up...

“We’re going to send Mr. Bundy the bill,” said Grasty, who criticized Republican lawmakers for meeting with the militants over the weekend.

Oh come on...

Why bother sending him the bill?

Just start letting ranchers graze on Bundy's land, and if his cattle come onto BLM property--confiscate them.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Local police and people who work at the refuge are apparently reporting that members of the militia/supporters of the militia have been following them to their homes and observing them/their family's movements.

Add stalking, harassment, and intimidation charges to the list.

j

They need to haul these bastards away for a damn long time when this is over. My personal experiences with militia gives me no respect for these morons.

They also tore down fences yesterday separating the land of ranchers from federal land.

Did any of the ranchers have anything to say about that and are they letting their cattle cross?

 Ouze wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Someone should charge them all with a crime then and demand their surrender. Plenty of crimes have been committed to charge them with.

No argument whatsoever from me. My reluctance for the government to give them the bloodbath they are hoping for doesn't extend to them eluding justice. It was a mistake at the Bundy ranch and it would be a huge mistake here. They have engaged in a seditious conspiracy and should go to federal prison for a long time.

Very much in agreement.

Looks like another standoff is finally over:

http://kfor.com/2016/01/12/longest-armed-standoff-in-american-history-ends-so-quietly-no-one-knew/

So all I have to do is start an armed stand off, and I'll never be arrested for anything

 LordofHats wrote:
So all I have to do is start an armed stand off, and I'll never be arrested for anything

Looks like it. Just gotta have some people willing to drop off supplies and you're good to go

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
So all I have to do is start an armed stand off, and I'll never be arrested for anything

Looks like it. Just gotta have some people willing to drop off supplies and you're good to go

Make some noise about giving up meat, and PETA will probably drop you some vegan alternatives.

 d-usa wrote:
Looks like another standoff is finally over:

http://kfor.com/2016/01/12/longest-armed-standoff-in-american-history-ends-so-quietly-no-one-knew/

So..... you can elude police by simply going onto your property and claiming you will shoot anyone who comes onto your property and nothing will happen to you? Wow.

That seems..... not right.

 Ouze wrote:

Because they haven't been charged with a crime, let alone convicted of anything. This can't be a serious question.

I think his point was that how is it OK do do it when a US citizen is in another country, without being charged with an actual crime, and killed by drone strike, but not OK to do it domestically.