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Woo hoo! We are about to see a bunch of 40K stuff cheap on eBay!

In all seriousness, this is probably just some writer not remembering that End Times means something big now. Besides, Space Wolves refer to the end Times as the Wolf Time, so it probably doesn't mean much.

40K has been in the throes of End Times for many meta-years. Hell, they started the whole story device for GW. I think they are just advancing the clock by a few seconds.

sturguard wrote:
Now- maybe the book isnt supposed to be about the wulfen and you are better off just taking grey hunters and thunderwolves and both of those units are better in the supplement. If that is the case, great, I just saved some money. I guess I fail to see any advantages they bring over normal SW units.

The Curse of the Wulfen book - as by the rumors - is updating the SW codex like Kauyon/Montka did for Tau and IG. So the effect of Wulfen on other nearby units in addition to some hopefully good formations and a SW-Decurion in the book could turn out to be a strong addition to the current SW books.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
I'll get even more salty if GW does an End Times, or even Age of Sigmar, on 40k.

called it a while back

This 'AoS-ifying 40k' bollocks again... guys, it gets annoying

I believe that there were posts from Sad Panda or Lady Atia that said something to the effect of "no AoS-ing of 40k" with some pretty steady conviction.

The End Times was talked about often during the 5th ed Codices, especially blood angels.

What I see is:

Normal Wolfy Dudes:
WS4, BS2, S5, T4, W2, I5, A3, Ld8, Sv4+

Head Wolf Dude
WS4, BS2, S5, T4, W2, I5, A4, Ld9, Sv4+


Except for the S stat which is open for debate this is most likely correct. [Edit: S5 has now been confirmed]

The other rules are

- Rage
- And they shall know no fear
- Curse of the Wulfen
- Counter-attack
- Bulky (they are on 40mm bases btw)
- Acute senses
- Feel no pain

- They can run and charge in the same turn and also re-roll failed charge ranges.

These guys strike me just like Howling Banshees. Fairly useful in hth and ok stats overall.
Their big problem however remains, actually getting into hth in a very shooting orientated edition. Bulky does absolutely nothing for them.

As to the models, not sold on them very much :(

Requizen wrote:
I believe that there were posts from Sad Panda or Lady Atia that said something to the effect of "no AoS-ing of 40k" with some pretty steady conviction.

Exactly, and in this very thread, too

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330/677083.page#8402616

Sad Panda wrote:

 kodos wrote:
the question is, if the 13th returns, is this the first 40k EndTimes book?

As in everything gets wiped out like Fantasy? No.

As in the story is moving? Kauyon was probably first (Chapter Master Shrike), but 40K is on the move.

Some development? Yes but not wiping the system

Warhams-77 wrote:
This 'AoS-ifying 40k' bollocks again... guys, it gets annoying

I really hope its not going to happen but nobody knows whats going on in gw really now.

It is just fearmongering


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:

Their big problem however remains, actually getting into hth in a very shooting orientated edition. Bulky does absolutely nothing for them.

As to the models, not sold on them very much :(

Thunderhammer + Stormshield on the front models, maybe. You do not have to equip the entire unit. There could also be new psychic powers for Runepriests

AoSing 40k wouldn't be as bad as AoSing WHFB anyway. It's already a loose formation game, the points values are already meaningless and most people who care about balance have already left and the rules themselves are massively bloated and could actually use some significant trimming.

But yeah, I don't think it's happening. GW probably saw the End Times did well in WHFB and so thought the name would be good to use here without realising End Times did well until people realised they were actually killing the game and now it's taken on the connotation of being something horrible.

Warhams-77 wrote:
It is just fearmongering


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:

Their big problem however remains, actually getting into hth in a very shooting orientated edition. Bulky does absolutely nothing for them.

As to the models, not sold on them very much :(

Thunderhammer + Stormshield on the front models, maybe. You do not have to equip the entire unit. There could also be new psychic powers for Runepriests

Eh, probably no new powers. Compare the current SW book to Tau before Kauyon. I feel it'll be the same - formations, detachment, maybe some specific relics or something, and the new models, but not changing things that are in place and set.

Warhams-77 wrote:
It is just fearmongering


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:

Their big problem however remains, actually getting into hth in a very shooting orientated edition. Bulky does absolutely nothing for them.

As to the models, not sold on them very much :(

Thunderhammer + Stormshield on the front models, maybe. You do not have to equip the entire unit. There could also be new psychic powers for Runepriests

these in kill team would be insane

Again it depends on how much the storm shield/thunderhammer option is, if it is more than 20 pts, you are better off with a 50pt Thunderwolf cav with stormshield. I mean toe to toe the thunderwolf would still have rending and the thunderhammer on the wulfen doesnt scare the thunderwolf.

Keeping the negativity out, how in the world do you think an expensive infantry model is better than a Thunderwolf? If your daemons have no problem with the thunderwolves, they should rip right through these guys.

sturguard wrote:
Again it depends on how much the storm shield/thunderhammer option is, if it is more than 20 pts, you are better off with a 50pt Thunderwolf cav with stormshield.

'cept they don't cost 50pts ;p

sturguard wrote:
Again it depends on how much the storm shield/thunderhammer option is .

20 points
Claws are 12 and Axe is 8points

For Wulfen SS & TH is +20 points per model. The leader cannot take it though (from what is shown in WD he only gets two 'Frost Claws')

Yes they probably wont add a new psychic discipline. Tau had some strong rules in the formations, some unit changes, a Decurion

Maybe GW will update Champions of Fenris as well like they did with Farsight Enclave in Montka

You attack whether you die or not, and if you get killed by something lower initiative you get to attack twice with every dude that got killed. It doesn't matter if you kill them, that's what I'm saying. Thunder wolves die and then can't do anything to you at all because they're dead. A thunder hammer on a wulfen is str10, isn't it? That instant deaths a TWC per unsaved wound, and they have no shortage of attacks. Also ruins a dp of nurgle without endurance which is my usual wolfstar or other deathstar hunting unit. I don't know, they just seem alot better to me than everyone is saying.

Of course most of my methods of killing them as a daemons player involve close combat so I may think differently because of that.

Warhams-77 wrote:
For Wulfen SS & TH is +20 points per model. The leader cannot take it though (from what is shown in WD he only gets two 'Frost Claws')

Yes they probably wont add a new psychic discipline. Tau had some strong rules in the formations, some unit changes, a Decurion

Maybe GW will update Champions of Fenris as well like they did with Farsight Enclave in Montka

Tau did get their "not psychic powers"...............

Pleased its a campaign and not just a codex.

Looking at those white dwarf pictures. I can't help thinking they're aimed at 8 yr old's. And considering other rumours, that may be correct.

Loving this news, cant wait to buy everything! =D

They aren't much slower than TWC either, being able to run and charge with fleet. Especially if they have a character that always makes them run 6" or a formation that does this that we don't know about yet. The big downsides are T4 and not always active assault grenades. The special rules they get can make up for that, in my opinion, and so can characters, formations, psyker spells and even relics perhaps.

I don't see the 4+ save as too much of a downside. They do their work dead or alive, and are really only weak against str8 ap4 or lower shooting, which usually feths up alot of things anyway if you aren't smart about placement and protection. It would be easy to hide a unit of these guys behind blos or in cover at the very least.

They aren't useless and at the absolute worst they look really FUN to field and add depth to a space wolves list. To me this has more value than optimal builds.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They aren't much slower than TWC either, being able to run and charge with fleet. Especially if they have a character that always makes them run 6" or a formation that does this that we don't know about yet. The big downsides are T4 and not always active assault grenades. The special rules they get can make up for that, in my opinion, and so can characters, formations, psyker spells and even relics perhaps.

I don't see the 4+ save as too much of a downside. They do their work dead or alive, and are really only weak against str8 ap4 or lower shooting, which usually feths up alot of things anyway if you aren't smart about placement and protection. It would be easy to hide a unit of these guys behind blos or in cover at the very least.

They aren't useless and at the absolute worst they look really FUN to field and add depth to a space wolves list. To me this has more value than optimal builds.

Take two iron priests on TWC with max wolves and add them. Now they are majority T5. Use the IP to soak AP4, and push the rest onto the Wulfen.

Ah, a way to shore up their weaknesses. However would that wreck their ability to run and charge? They could keep up with the iron priests if they can run up to them. I guess the conga line always works too, especially with wolves in the unit.

Okay, take the Thunderwolf cav with the Iron priests and you dont need to buy the wolves and the unit is toughness 5.

I am not saying they are worthless, I am saying they have no role which isnt already occupied by TWC. TWC hit like a ton of bricks and are resilient, which is essentially the only unit in the SW dex that can play with Tau, Eldar or Necrons because of their firepower. The wulfen arent more resilient, they are less so- at least by the initial rules. I would say you cant even add a TWC lord in as they wouldnt have the special rule of being able to move then charge, part of the resiliency of the Thunderwolves are Lords being able to tank with a 2+ and adding in regular wolves as needed, again, I dont think you will have that ability with the Wulfen.

Also, 150 points minimum is not cheap, so shooting units with str 8 will target them (Because I would suspect that no one will take them unupgraded, so you are looking at 200+ points max with just 5 models. Not to mention because they have such few wounds per unit, weight of fire will wreck them.

Currently the only use I can see for them is as a force multiplier for Thunderwolves. So you take a unit of them behind a unit of Thunderwolves to give the Thunderwolf bonueses. However, my issue with this release was I was hoping you could play something other than Thunderwolves or a thunderwolf substitute.

Warhams-77 wrote:
For Wulfen SS & TH is +20 points per model. The leader cannot take it though (from what is shown in WD he only gets two 'Frost Claws')

Yes they probably wont add a new psychic discipline. Tau had some strong rules in the formations, some unit changes, a Decurion

Maybe GW will update Champions of Fenris as well like they did with Farsight Enclave in Montka

Humm so with a TH&SS that's 50pts a model that can put out 5 Str. 10 attacks on the charge with a 3+ invul plus all its special rules. Pretty comparable to TWC and, even if TWC are slightly better, will hardly be useless which is good. Plus, there are likely formations that boost this further in some aspect.

Still butt ugly models though.

sturguard wrote:
Okay, take the Thunderwolf cav with the Iron priests and you dont need to buy the wolves and the unit is toughness 5.

The wulfen are cheaper and give you bonuses, plus FNP. Just an idea... I think we don't know enough yet.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Pretty useless compared to TWC.. 10 points more and you are better in virtually every single way.

I'm waiting to see the translation, but...

TWC can't get an assault transport.

Sure they can, it's called being cavalry and they don't have to pay for it :p

These guys are able to disembark from their Assault Transport, Run, then Charge all in one go.

So it's like Cavalry that aren't making Dangerous Terrain tests for Difficult Terrain.

Of course you are taxed with a pricey assault transport, ideally the stormwolf which doesn't some in until turn 2 earliest and since you aren't assaulting from rerserve your best case scenario is a turn 3 assault. Also, since you need a transport why on earth is running before assaulting a perk when they have fleet to boot? It should be fairly easy to set up an assault from a stormwolf.

I suppose you could take a LR but if your rushing a LR up every turn your literally paying 250~ pts for movement that T-wolves get standard. I know your in a LR, but don't act like anything that kills T-wolve3s from shooting won't nuke a LR as well.

They remind me of Khorne Berzerkers, You need a LR to make them work and it is rarely worth 500ish points to kill one thing with poor armor and low toughness lol.

EDIT: Of course I am not saying you can't make them work, I just don't jump at units that you need to tweak to make work. Especially when I am not thrilled by the models. I have been planning a khorne wolves army and wanted to use the Gal Vorak models from HH, I also wanted to try and make a sick Khornate flier from a storm wolf, so while I say this I may indeed use the rules for other models. It will be for other models in a themed army aimed at painting achievments though lol. Ironically.

Yeah, I don't agree. As long as they're str5 I'm more scared of them than TWC. And I don't believe they require a land raider to function. They require smart placement and threat saturation as well as support, kinda like a daemon prince. Thunder wolves are powerful but don't help the rest of your army gain power at all, so that's a niche for them that may become very useful once it's well explored.

If they're str3 they're a terrible unit.

We don't know enough to write them off completely yet, rules wise.

I understand though how people may not jump at a unit that needs list tweaks to be a competitive choice, or even a good choice.