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Aren't Centurions 'Not-Obliterators'?

OT: Not thrilled by the quality of these models. GW 'marines just seem to be getting blockier. :(

They arnt conversions they are a new model. You can tell by the trim around the armour plates.

 kodos wrote:
And the original Frost blades were made with teeth from the Kraken and not of magic ice.

The Kraken thin came in 3rd edition I think. I liked Frost weapons more when there was only 1... Frostfang...

"Frostfang is a mighty weapon crafted centuries ago by Iron Priest Fergus Forgim, the famed master craftsman of the Space Wolves. Its chainsaw blade is fashioned from a rare metal whose secret died with the ancient Iron Priest."

I mentioned it earlier but I think since 2nd edition Space Wolves are one of the armies that has suffered from being fleshed out too much. Having Fenrisian Wolves in the army is as far as they should have gone. Thunderwolf Cavalry, Logan Claus, Murderfang and in general having the "Wolf factor" turned up to 11 ruined the appeal of them to me.

OgreChubbs wrote:
They arnt conversions they are a new model. You can tell by the trim around the armour plates.

It's a conversion with a lot of nice GS work. The WIP pics arent hard to find.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 kodos wrote:
And the original Frost blades were made with teeth from the Kraken and not of magic ice.

The Kraken thin came in 3rd edition I think. I liked Frost weapons more when there was only 1... Frostfang...

"Frostfang is a mighty weapon crafted centuries ago by Iron Priest Fergus Forgim, the famed master craftsman of the Space Wolves. Its chainsaw blade is fashioned from a rare metal whose secret died with the ancient Iron Priest."

I mentioned it earlier but I think since 2nd edition Space Wolves are one of the armies that has suffered from being fleshed out too much. Having Fenrisian Wolves in the army is as far as they should have gone. Thunderwolf Cavalry, Logan Claus, Murderfang and in general having the "Wolf factor" turned up to 11 ruined the appeal of them to me.

What, you have a hard time imagining giant kennels aboard Space Wolf Strike Cruisers and Battlebarges?

 AegisGrimm wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 kodos wrote:
And the original Frost blades were made with teeth from the Kraken and not of magic ice.

The Kraken thin came in 3rd edition I think. I liked Frost weapons more when there was only 1... Frostfang...

"Frostfang is a mighty weapon crafted centuries ago by Iron Priest Fergus Forgim, the famed master craftsman of the Space Wolves. Its chainsaw blade is fashioned from a rare metal whose secret died with the ancient Iron Priest."

I mentioned it earlier but I think since 2nd edition Space Wolves are one of the armies that has suffered from being fleshed out too much. Having Fenrisian Wolves in the army is as far as they should have gone. Thunderwolf Cavalry, Logan Claus, Murderfang and in general having the "Wolf factor" turned up to 11 ruined the appeal of them to me.

What, you have a hard time imagining giant kennels aboard Space Wolf Strike Cruisers and Battlebarges?

Having a Kennel aboard a flying Kennel seems redundant though.

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
All the current plastic Chaos Daemon models are lovely sculpts. Only the Daemon Prince, Bloodthirster and Skarbad are down a bit due to their more cartoony anatomy, and excessive detailing. While taste is subjective none of the Slannesh plastics are bad sculpt. Solid anatomy, excellent detail, and they are true to the original concept of Slaanesh. Its only the remaing greater daemons, finecast characters and older units that let the range down.

The daemonettes have problems around the chest area... Their boobs look like traffic cones. And the only Slaanesh models that aren't tellingly old involve those daemonettes. Not to mention, the Seekers of Slaanesh are suffering from the problem where A: 3 of them are running while the other 2 are walking, and B: The daemonettes are upright the same way on all 5, making it look bad no matter how you look at it. The only Slaanesh miniatures that I'm currently giving a pass are those metal fiends, but now that one of the three is gone they're officially suffering from Duplicate Model Syndrome, and of course the Chariot of Slaanesh. I will say that the Daemonettes on that thing, from what I can tell, don't seem to have the traffic cone boobs. Which means I can no longer find anything glaringly wrong with it.

The previous daemonettes had static poses too, and were metal with no hope of conversion. I look at it this way they were released in 2008 and design team hadn't really started to push what was possible in plastic. The Bloodletter and Plaguebearers both suffer from static standing poses. While the Pink Horrors from 2012, are far more dynamic. I'd say something like the DE Wyches running poses would've have been the sweet spot for Daemonettes as opposed to the Dark Elves Witch Elves which I thing take dynamic posing to far. I used to feel the same way about the Seeker being static. But honestly, their much better sculpts and the dinosaur/bird like anatomy the went with doesn't really allow a lot of dynamism anyway. The chariots I agreed did not need 3 near identical variations for the sake of variation.

 Sersi wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
All the current plastic Chaos Daemon models are lovely sculpts. Only the Daemon Prince, Bloodthirster and Skarbad are down a bit due to their more cartoony anatomy, and excessive detailing. While taste is subjective none of the Slannesh plastics are bad sculpt. Solid anatomy, excellent detail, and they are true to the original concept of Slaanesh. Its only the remaing greater daemons, finecast characters and older units that let the range down.

The daemonettes have problems around the chest area... Their boobs look like traffic cones. And the only Slaanesh models that aren't tellingly old involve those daemonettes. Not to mention, the Seekers of Slaanesh are suffering from the problem where A: 3 of them are running while the other 2 are walking, and B: The daemonettes are upright the same way on all 5, making it look bad no matter how you look at it. The only Slaanesh miniatures that I'm currently giving a pass are those metal fiends, but now that one of the three is gone they're officially suffering from Duplicate Model Syndrome, and of course the Chariot of Slaanesh. I will say that the Daemonettes on that thing, from what I can tell, don't seem to have the traffic cone boobs. Which means I can no longer find anything glaringly wrong with it.

The previous daemonettes had static poses too, and were metal with no hope of conversion. I look at it this way they were released in 2008 and design team hadn't really started to push what was possible in plastic. The Bloodletter and Plaguebearers both suffer from static standing poses. While the Pink Horrors from 2012, are far more dynamic. I'd say something like the DE Wyches running poses would've have been the sweet spot for Daemonettes as opposed to the Dark Elves Witch Elves which I thing take dynamic posing to far. I used to feel the same way about the Seeker being static. But honestly, their much better sculpts and the dinosaur/bird like anatomy the went with doesn't really allow a lot of dynamism anyway. The chariots I agreed did not need 3 near identical variations for the sake of variation.

Pink Horrors IIRC are from August 2009, the same 'wave release' that saw the Bloodcrushers move from a mono-pose melta model into the proper multi-pose plastic kit, as well also bringing us the plastic Seekers kit.

The 2012? WD update was when we got the new Slaanesh chariots of all types, and plastic Flamers + I believe the Blue Scribes.

The 2013 codex release gave us the Tzeentch & Khorne chariots, plastic Plaguebearers + plastic Herald, and a handful of Finecrap characters.

 Souleater wrote:
Aren't Centurions 'Not-Obliterators'?

OT: Not thrilled by the quality of these models. GW 'marines just seem to be getting blockier. :(

I prefer to think of them being Chaos MECHANICUM MYRMIDON DESTRUCTORS with the CC ones being SECUTORS

 AlexHolker wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Off topic but, why would you expect daemons to be anatomically correct at all!?! They are pure energy given whatever form their deity decides would make them the most effective.

Because that bs makes for terrible models. Ugly, misshapen models should not be justified by "This is what they look like under the illusion" or "they're just pure energy so they can look however they like," because they're still ugly misshapen models. Models should only be unrealistic for the purpose of making them look better, not worse.

And that goes for these new Wulfen, too. If you're going to have the Wulfen be mutants, it should be because you want an excuse to make the models look better than if they were not mutants.

Exalted

Was hoping the models would be a bit more beast-like, these guys are a bit too human for my taste.

Something like this, without the zombie stuff of course:

 prowla wrote:
Was hoping the models would be a bit more beast-like, these guys are a bit too human for my taste.

Something like this, without the zombie stuff of course:

Spoiler:

After looking at them over the last few days. I know longer hate the new Wulfen models...they're okay-ish. Still something along the lines of Corvus Belli's Dog warriors or their Ariadna Antipode Assault Pack is far better. In fact that's what I'd proxy if I played Space Wolves. Silly...silly ice claws.

I've had to remove an extremely inappropriate post and the subsequent replies to it. There is absolutely no tolerance on Dakka for making fun of disabled people... please use other more appropriate language to express your preference on miniatures / sculpts / etc.

Thanks all

 Sersi wrote:
After looking at them over the last few days. I know longer hate the knew Wulfen models...they're okay-ish. Still comething along the lines of Corvus Belli's Dog warriors or their Ariadna Antipode Assault Pack is far better. In fact that's what I'd proxy if I played Space Wolves. Silly...silly ice claws.

That's called acclamation. You're just used to them now.

I think that the best thing to come out of what I have seen so far is that these guys are not an auto take for the list. New models usually get the best rules, but I just don't see them having that OP edge. Actually pretty balanced for what else you could be putting your points into.

But then again, this has only been one unit.

That is definitely true, having more options without feeling forced to take them (cough, Thunderwolves, cough) is great to have. I am really curious to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes with this release, is it just a Wulfen box, a character and the campaign book or will we get some other stuff? I recall Atia stating that there would be a whole heap of small splash releases this year so I am curious to see which armies will get updates.

Quarterdime wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
After looking at them over the last few days. I know longer hate the knew Wulfen models...they're okay-ish. Still comething along the lines of Corvus Belli's Dog warriors or their Ariadna Antipode Assault Pack is far better. In fact that's what I'd proxy if I played Space Wolves. Silly...silly ice claws.

That's called acclamation. You're just used to them now.

I'll wait til the plastic comes out and see how it all comes together (and how easy it is to modify the things I don't like) before I give it a final thumbs up or down. It's pretty hard to tell with blurry pic, and anyways, sometimes, pose complaints are totally valid, while other times, they're so easy to improve (look at the Calth Contemptor).

I don't think I'll like them, but it's not like I'm a Space Wolf player, so at worst, it'll be some unit I pass on. Maybe it's something worthy of a conversion; or -- slim chance -- maybe it's a lot better than it looks at first glance.

Jayden63 wrote:I think that the best thing to come out of what I have seen so far is that these guys are not an auto take for the list. New models usually get the best rules, but I just don't see them having that OP edge. Actually pretty balanced for what else you could be putting your points into.

But then again, this has only been one unit.

I actually thought the rules were pretty good, especially considering that it's Space Wolves, who don't have a ton of really great choices to pick from in the current codex. I mean, it's nice to have another decent unit other than TWC.

What I'm most interested in is the campaign and any tweaks to the faction from that angle (super-formation gimme gimme). I don't think it will coax me into playing Wolves any time soon (though I do love a lot of the models), but levelling it all out a little would make me happy

 Jayden63 wrote:
I think that the best thing to come out of what I have seen so far is that these guys are not an auto take for the list. New models usually get the best rules, but I just don't see them having that OP edge. Actually pretty balanced for what else you could be putting your points into.

But then again, this has only been one unit.

Agree. I usually find myself with a solid core of grey hunters, pods, longfangs, a priest and some tank, to run the basic part of the battle.
Whatever extra points i have left go to cool or fluffy units, or to counter a specific enemy.
There is really no need to cram in wolf mutatnts, or wolf mutant dreadnoughts etc, if you dont want to.

 Talys wrote:

Quarterdime wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
After looking at them over the last few days. I know longer hate the knew Wulfen models...they're okay-ish. Still comething along the lines of Corvus Belli's Dog warriors or their Ariadna Antipode Assault Pack is far better. In fact that's what I'd proxy if I played Space Wolves. Silly...silly ice claws.

That's called acclamation. You're just used to them now.

I'll wait til the plastic comes out and see how it all comes together (and how easy it is to modify the things I don't like) before I give it a final thumbs up or down. It's pretty hard to tell with blurry pic, and anyways, sometimes, pose complaints are totally valid, while other times, they're so easy to improve (look at the Calth Contemptor).

I don't think I'll like them, but it's not like I'm a Space Wolf player, so at worst, it'll be some unit I pass on. Maybe it's something worthy of a conversion; or -- slim chance -- maybe it's a lot better than it looks at first glance.

Even if poses are easy to fix, it doesn't mean the pose complaints aren't then valid. The poses should be good from the get go without having to fix them.

I also wonder just how much better these guys will look with normal SM running pose type legs. Leave the bare arms and more ferral heads. I'm hoping that they will be very compatible with the normal wolf pack box of boys.

I can't at this moment think of any possible use for the extra hairy legs, but maybe something will come up.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Talys wrote:

Quarterdime wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
After looking at them over the last few days. I know longer hate the knew Wulfen models...they're okay-ish. Still comething along the lines of Corvus Belli's Dog warriors or their Ariadna Antipode Assault Pack is far better. In fact that's what I'd proxy if I played Space Wolves. Silly...silly ice claws.

That's called acclamation. You're just used to them now.

I'll wait til the plastic comes out and see how it all comes together (and how easy it is to modify the things I don't like) before I give it a final thumbs up or down. It's pretty hard to tell with blurry pic, and anyways, sometimes, pose complaints are totally valid, while other times, they're so easy to improve (look at the Calth Contemptor).

I don't think I'll like them, but it's not like I'm a Space Wolf player, so at worst, it'll be some unit I pass on. Maybe it's something worthy of a conversion; or -- slim chance -- maybe it's a lot better than it looks at first glance.

Even if poses are easy to fix, it doesn't mean the pose complaints aren't then valid. The poses should be good from the get go without having to fix them.

i totally disagree with this, ImAGeek...
not the part about pose complaints being valid, but the part about poses needing to be good from the get go...
i have rarely seen a mini, from any manufacturer, that satisfies my aesthetic tastes 100%...
some flaws i can accept without change, some i can't and so pass on buying, and others i get a deep satisfaction from changing to suit my tastes...
if i could sculpt, rather than convert, the minis to be exactly what i envision, then i would never have to buy anything other than Greenstuff...

the fact that a sculptor is not in my head, means it is pretty much a crap-shoot whether a sculpt is going to be "good" compared to what i have in my head...
a sculpt not matching your ideas doesn't make it bad, just different, and maybe not worth buying...
just look at all of the people who gripe about "tactical rocks", "tactical detritus", and "rage fist" in the Infinity forum, and then look at how many people (like me) who don't have a problem with it...
really, do you expect that you and a sculptor could possibly be on the same page all the time???

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Talys wrote:

Quarterdime wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
After looking at them over the last few days. I know longer hate the knew Wulfen models...they're okay-ish. Still comething along the lines of Corvus Belli's Dog warriors or their Ariadna Antipode Assault Pack is far better. In fact that's what I'd proxy if I played Space Wolves. Silly...silly ice claws.

That's called acclamation. You're just used to them now.

I'll wait til the plastic comes out and see how it all comes together (and how easy it is to modify the things I don't like) before I give it a final thumbs up or down. It's pretty hard to tell with blurry pic, and anyways, sometimes, pose complaints are totally valid, while other times, they're so easy to improve (look at the Calth Contemptor).

I don't think I'll like them, but it's not like I'm a Space Wolf player, so at worst, it'll be some unit I pass on. Maybe it's something worthy of a conversion; or -- slim chance -- maybe it's a lot better than it looks at first glance.

Even if poses are easy to fix, it doesn't mean the pose complaints aren't then valid. The poses should be good from the get go without having to fix them.

i totally disagree with this, ImAGeek...
not the part about pose complaints being valid, but the part about poses needing to be good from the get go...
i have rarely seen a mini, from any manufacturer, that satisfies my aesthetic tastes 100%...
some flaws i can accept without change, some i can't and so pass on buying, and others i get a deep satisfaction from changing to suit my tastes...
if i could sculpt, rather than convert, the minis to be exactly what i envision, then i would never have to buy anything other than Greenstuff...

the fact that a sculptor is not in my head, means it is pretty much a crap-shoot whether a sculpt is going to be "good" compared to what i have in my head...
a sculpt not matching your ideas doesn't make it bad, just different, and maybe not worth buying...
just look at all of the people who gripe about "tactical rocks", "tactical detritus", and "rage fist" in the Infinity forum, and then look at how many people (like me) who don't have a problem with it...
really, do you expect that you and a sculptor could possibly be on the same page all the time???

cheers
jah

I agree to a point, but find it unlikely there's some one out there talking to a sculptor about how much they love the skull pimple aesthetic on the new chaos stuff. In regards to the wulfen sculpts, I'd just assumed someone was working at GW as a sculptor to pay for dance lessons.

@Joyboozer: i will concede those two points to you...

cheers
jah

Is there a place in the german white dwarf , that says that spacewolves will get great company specific formations, data cards and psychic powers??

Quarterdime wrote:

Oh, you mean consistent throughout the entire model? Yeah, me too.

Sersi wrote:After looking at them over the last few days. I know longer hate the knew Wulfen models...they're okay-ish. Still something along the lines of Corvus Belli's Dog warriors or their Ariadna Antipode Assault Pack is far better. In fact that's what I'd proxy if I played Space Wolves. Silly...silly ice claws.

As the saying goes, you'll get used to anything, except to an icicle (ice claw?) up in your rear. Yeah those claws are still a bad idea, too much of an 80's cartoon thing going on. I wonder if the snowball is made out of magic super hard never-melting snow..

Fenris where its always winter and never Christmas. Since, the Dark Angels are also involved in the Campaign some how we have a the Lion. Logan Grimnar with his sleigh is Santa. So we just need and Eldar Farseer for the Witch...well I suppose some daemon tart will do.

lonewolf81 wrote:
Is there a place in the german white dwarf , that says that spacewolves will get great company specific formations, data cards and psychic powers??

I don't know for sure but I'm assuming it is all but confirmed, if Daemons are getting ten formations in what is a Space Wolf driven release model-wise then I'm sure the pups will get their own set too, especially as Space Wolves don't really have that many formations to work with currently!

lonewolf81 wrote:
Is there a place in the german white dwarf , that says that spacewolves will get great company specific formations, data cards and psychic powers??

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/677083/8411345.page

Yes

AegisGrimm wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 kodos wrote:
And the original Frost blades were made with teeth from the Kraken and not of magic ice.

The Kraken thin came in 3rd edition I think. I liked Frost weapons more when there was only 1... Frostfang...

"Frostfang is a mighty weapon crafted centuries ago by Iron Priest Fergus Forgim, the famed master craftsman of the Space Wolves. Its chainsaw blade is fashioned from a rare metal whose secret died with the ancient Iron Priest."

I mentioned it earlier but I think since 2nd edition Space Wolves are one of the armies that has suffered from being fleshed out too much. Having Fenrisian Wolves in the army is as far as they should have gone. Thunderwolf Cavalry, Logan Claus, Murderfang and in general having the "Wolf factor" turned up to 11 ruined the appeal of them to me.

What, you have a hard time imagining giant kennels aboard Space Wolf Strike Cruisers and Battlebarges?

I actually don't mind Fenrisian Wolves and even Thunderwolves (if it weren't for the fact they are Thunderwolf Cavalry and were instead just Thunderwolves traipsing around). Packs of loyal Wolves wandering around I think isn't too bad, I think it's even mentioned in the fluff that Wolves from Fenris are exceptionally intelligent, or was that my imagination?

But that's about as far as I'd take it. When you start riding the wolves, getting the wolves to pull your hovering chariot and tons of weapons labelled Wolf-something or Frost-something it just reaches comic books levels of silliness.

I think from 2nd edition (maybe even 3rd edition) Space Wolves you could have gone either down the gritty wolf themed viking road or the comically silly viking themed wolf road, GW chose the latter. Before then it was more up to the imagination of the gamer.

jah-joshua wrote:i have rarely seen a mini, from any manufacturer, that satisfies my aesthetic tastes 100%...

Nobody is asking for 100%. We're asking for like, I dunno, 70%, these things are somewhere down around 20%. Obviously these things are subjective but at the same time there are tangible factors which is why when you get a thread of "coolest models ever" the same handful always come to the fore.

On the rare occasion something 100% satisfies my aesthetic taste, I buy it, regardless of what army it's for. Those models are few and far between.

There's a wide space between "100% satisfaction" and "this model is so bad the only way to make it passable is with heavy conversion work".

Especially on models that have exposed musculature (which, like decent robes, is out of the realm of most peoples' ability to resculpt) you want them to look reasonably good out of the box.