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I see no reason to include Russ.

Daemon Primarchs have already had minis from way back when in Epic scale. Magnus was a round and IIRC Angron had a mini too. They are a presence in 40k.

Lost Primarchs really haven't been.

RazorEdge wrote:
I'm hoping Magnus doesn't look stupid...

Have you seen the artwork?

Requizen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Since we are getting Magnus in plastic, what are the odds we are getting Lemans Russ? It seemail like a logical place to put him. As for part 2, my guess is Grey Knights, Dark Angels, and Thousand Sons. Kinda like Mont'ka and Kauyon. We already got SW and Daemons in the last book.

Do you think we'd get Leman Russ if there weren't other SW stuff in the book? I think for that point alone we won't see him, Magnus will probably be fought by GKs because reasons.

Reason being that short of primarches coming back they are pretty much only force capable of taking on daemonic primarch. Especially since they have proven track record in that.

Albeit even more logical solution would be to nuke him from orbit but that would be boring story


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
I see no reason to include Russ.

Daemon Primarchs have already had minis from way back when in Epic scale. Magnus was a round and IIRC Angron had a mini too. They are a presence in 40k.

Lost Primarchs really haven't been.

Well there's one very good reason: Money. Primarch will be printing money so you expect GW to not utilize it sometime? Question isn't if but when.

(somebody quoted original guys of GW saying 30k was more of last resort. Well gee apart from GW NEEDING desperately to bolster up sales sooner or later that last resort was going to be needed anyway. That or GW would eventually go down without using that)

I don't think Primarchs "print money". Good units do, because people will buy lots. How many Eldar Jetbikes do you think have sold since the 7e codex? But everyone buys at most 1 Primarch, and many 0. There's not a lot of call for one person to buy multiple versions of Russ, but once people figured out that Wulfen were the sauce, every Wolf player I know bought like 4 boxes.

Magnus makes sense if he can be an upgrade sprue to a LoC or Prince, but I think it's more of a "hey, we're really sorry we've neglected 1k Sons forever, here's a cool Character for them too!".

Can I be that guy and mention I have more than 1 primarch.
Have all so far except Horus lol.
That's just for painting projects though.


Am sold on the rubics though, more so if they get half decent new rules.

GW has done large, unique characters in plastic before. Nagash springs to mind.

Requizen wrote:
I don't think Primarchs "print money". Good units do, because people will buy lots. How many Eldar Jetbikes do you think have sold since the 7e codex? But everyone buys at most 1 Primarch, and many 0. There's not a lot of call for one person to buy multiple versions of Russ, but once people figured out that Wulfen were the sauce, every Wolf player I know bought like 4 boxes.

Magnus makes sense if he can be an upgrade sprue to a LoC or Prince, but I think it's more of a "hey, we're really sorry we've neglected 1k Sons forever, here's a cool Character for them too!".

Yeah but then again price is up on the roof giving profit margin bigger than most and primarch is going to sell for wide range. Scatbikes will sell to those with eldar army. Primarch will sell for...Well target is larger than just SM players. Not every 40k player but pretty damn wide.

Yeah they won't be biggest sellers GW has but it's pretty much quaranteed profit release. They have no reason to NOT release them.

Your last comment only makes sense if Magnus is only. I doubt he's going to be last primarch you see.

I can't believe how long it's taking for Part II to come out...

Hmm I wonder if they are getting the next in the campaign books ready after it and it kinda ties in? Hmm...

If GW are going ahead with some kind of 40k end times scenario(without the whole destroying the setting thing) having loyal Primarchs return to light the Imperiums darkest hour could be cool. Especialy if some of them object to the way the Imperium has developed while they were away. I'd be interested to see what they would do with them visuallyto separate them from the FW models. The traitors are all demon princes so there's an excuse to have them look very different from there HH versions. The loyalists on the other hand would probably just look older(except Guilliman).

GoatboyBeta wrote:
If GW are going ahead with some kind of 40k end times scenario(without the whole destroying the setting thing) having loyal Primarchs return to light the Imperiums darkest hour could be cool. Especialy if some of them object to the way the Imperium has developed while they were away. I'd be interested to see what they would do with them visuallyto separate them from the FW models. The traitors are all demon princes so there's an excuse to have them look very different from there HH versions. The loyalists on the other hand would probably just look older(except Guilliman).

Well it's not like GW has not released models FW did...

 Mr. Burning wrote:
I see no reason to include Russ.

Daemon Primarchs have already had minis from way back when in Epic scale. Magnus was a round and IIRC Angron had a mini too. They are a presence in 40k.

Lost Primarchs really haven't been.

Just as far back there was a Leman Russ miniature. So if past miniatures are any justification at all his would be as well.


Further still he's likely only lost because he's been trying to bring the fight to the Daemon Primarchs for the last 10,000 years.... The narrative of Daemon Primarchs returning to the material plane only to be pursued by the ultimate "Ahab" like character makes more sense than the coincidence of any or all the other loyalist Primarchs returning.

Most of the not dead loyalists make as much sense returning as Russ. The only exception being the "dead" but healing Guileman. As he actually supposedly died....

Either way I'm excited for part 2. Which is something since I haven't cared about 40k fluff in years since it's stayed the same the last decade except for the rare retcon like the Necrons or new SM units.

I hope they don't do a grey knights multi-formation detachment. Their model range doesn't give them enough to do that. New detachment, sure. But not an mfd.

Dark angels I could see, chaos marines for sure. All they really need are the "core" choices for the other wolf lords.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
If GW are going ahead with some kind of 40k end times scenario(without the whole destroying the setting thing) having loyal Primarchs return to light the Imperiums darkest hour could be cool. Especialy if some of them object to the way the Imperium has developed while they were away. I'd be interested to see what they would do with them visuallyto separate them from the FW models. The traitors are all demon princes so there's an excuse to have them look very different from there HH versions. The loyalists on the other hand would probably just look older(except Guilliman).

Leman Russ has been in the Warp. That has some "interesting" effects on time

Lionel Johnson has been in stasis, so no aging

Vulkan is an eternal, so much like "Duncan McLeod the Highlander" he doesn't age.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a rather extensive Primarch collection. I've collected models from Forge World, Ronin, Kabuki, etc.

Honestly, my first Primarch was the Ronin version of Magnus, and he's HUGE. The model is pre-deamon, but still stands 85mm tall. I know Magnus was the largest Primarch, but that's still pushing it.

I hope his new rules are fitting.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Honestly, my first Primarch was the Ronin version of Magnus, and he's HUGE. The model is pre-deamon, but still stands 85mm tall. I know Magnus was the largest Primarch, but that's still pushing it.

I hope his new rules are fitting.

What scale? That might be tad small for Inquisitor scaled Magnus for example.

If 28mm then yeah 3xhuman size or so...Don't think primarch are supposed to be THAT tall.

The old Magnus the red miniature looks kind of funny. I hope they re-imagine how he should look completley.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Most of the not dead loyalists make as much sense returning as Russ. The only exception being the "dead" but healing Guileman. As he actually supposedly died....

I think the difficulty of the other loyalist primarchs is that its alot easier to say all the Chaos Primarchs decided to launch an offensive than it is to say... after 10,000 years out of pure coincidence this primarch awakens, and this primarch decides to get over his mental health issues, and this primarch... etc. I think bringing the Daemon Primarchs works well in the narrative and heightens tension, but the loyalist primarchs returning is something that should take time.

What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Most of the not dead loyalists make as much sense returning as Russ. The only exception being the "dead" but healing Guileman. As he actually supposedly died....

I think the difficulty of the other loyalist primarchs is that its alot easier to say all the Chaos Primarchs decided to launch an offensive than it is to say... after 10,000 years out of pure coincidence this primarch awakens, and this primarch decides to get over his mental health issues, and this primarch... etc. I think bringing the Daemon Primarchs works well in the narrative and heightens tension, but the loyalist primarchs returning is something that should take time.

What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

Yeah, I can't see the loyalist Primarchs returning en mass! Vulkan is supposedly a prisoner of that necron dude isn't he? Corax went nuts and flew off on his own. The Lion and Guilliman are both in situe at home. They aren't in a position to get the band back together. In fact I don't even see Russ coming back for Fenris 2, I think Magnus will come back there will be some serious gak going down and I am hoping he takes some names. Who knows we could even see Fenris becoming a Daemon world or something? With a future supplement being about Russ returning to free it from Chaos.

 aka_mythos wrote:
What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

Which makes zero sense when you look at the actual models and rules. Like what happened to their storm bolters? An item so common that the Imperium outfits their fething shipping containers with them, yet the Crimson Slaughter couldn't manage to maintain theirs? A huge part of CSM flavor comes from the fact that they use Heresy-era Legion equipment. But wait! They're not Legions. Makes no sense.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

Which makes zero sense when you look at the actual models and rules. Like what happened to their storm bolters? An item so common that the Imperium outfits their fething shipping containers with them, yet the Crimson Slaughter couldn't manage to maintain theirs? A huge part of CSM flavor comes from the fact that they use Heresy-era Legion equipment. But wait! They're not Legions. Makes no sense.

It's a tricky one - striking the balance between (Chaos) Renegade Marines and their loyalist brothers. Otherwise Renegades could very easily become Marines++ with everything that the Loyalists have, PLUS Daemonic allies and cool Chaos-flavoured toys. I mean, where do we draw the line? Storm Bolters or Centurions? I agree that there should be something, but it's tricky trying to define something rules-wise that works for post-heresy chapters - between the guys just declared Excommunicate Traitoris last week and the Astral Claws/Red Corsairs or where chapters like the Relictors fit in.

 General Kroll wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Most of the not dead loyalists make as much sense returning as Russ. The only exception being the "dead" but healing Guileman. As he actually supposedly died....

I think the difficulty of the other loyalist primarchs is that its alot easier to say all the Chaos Primarchs decided to launch an offensive than it is to say... after 10,000 years out of pure coincidence this primarch awakens, and this primarch decides to get over his mental health issues, and this primarch... etc. I think bringing the Daemon Primarchs works well in the narrative and heightens tension, but the loyalist primarchs returning is something that should take time.

What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

Yeah, I can't see the loyalist Primarchs returning en mass! Vulkan is supposedly a prisoner of that necron dude isn't he? Corax went nuts and flew off on his own. The Lion and Guilliman are both in situe at home. They aren't in a position to get the band back together. In fact I don't even see Russ coming back for Fenris 2, I think Magnus will come back there will be some serious gak going down and I am hoping he takes some names. Who knows we could even see Fenris becoming a Daemon world or something? With a future supplement being about Russ returning to free it from Chaos.

Its all make believe. GW can change anything they like to fit the model releases they have coming out and it'll be "official"

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

Which makes zero sense when you look at the actual models and rules. Like what happened to their storm bolters? An item so common that the Imperium outfits their fething shipping containers with them, yet the Crimson Slaughter couldn't manage to maintain theirs? A huge part of CSM flavor comes from the fact that they use Heresy-era Legion equipment. But wait! They're not Legions. Makes no sense.

Nothing makes any sense with the CSM this days....

 Ankhalagon wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

Which makes zero sense when you look at the actual models and rules. Like what happened to their storm bolters? An item so common that the Imperium outfits their fething shipping containers with them, yet the Crimson Slaughter couldn't manage to maintain theirs? A huge part of CSM flavor comes from the fact that they use Heresy-era Legion equipment. But wait! They're not Legions. Makes no sense.

Nothing makes any sense with the CSM this days....

I guess that's what happens when you create a faction and then decide you don't like the idea behind them anymore.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

Which makes zero sense when you look at the actual models and rules. Like what happened to their storm bolters? An item so common that the Imperium outfits their fething shipping containers with them, yet the Crimson Slaughter couldn't manage to maintain theirs? A huge part of CSM flavor comes from the fact that they use Heresy-era Legion equipment. But wait! They're not Legions. Makes no sense.

It's a tricky one - striking the balance between (Chaos) Renegade Marines and their loyalist brothers. Otherwise Renegades could very easily become Marines++ with everything that the Loyalists have, PLUS Daemonic allies and cool Chaos-flavoured toys. I mean, where do we draw the line? Storm Bolters or Centurions? I agree that there should be something, but it's tricky trying to define something rules-wise that works for post-heresy chapters - between the guys just declared Excommunicate Traitoris last week and the Astral Claws/Red Corsairs or where chapters like the Relictors fit in.

Which is why, really, CSM should have remained the book for actual Chaos Space Marines, ie the ones derived from the original Legions(whether they still follow those original doctrines strictly or not), and Renegades should have been a supplement for the Space Marine codex with some minor tweaks & generic tactics for "recent defectors"(less Landspeeders/flyers, maybe a couple of slightly dodgy relics) and dedicated, FW-style Chapter Tactics, gear, Relics, & fluff for the special case Renegades like Red Corsairs/Relictors. Or they could have just left Renegades to FW entirely.

Regardless, all the plot holes and logical inconsistencies GW have to deal with presently regarding Chaos are of their own making; if they weren't so keen to disown their own legacy, they wouldn't be stuck trying to explain(or pointedly ignoring) the Extremely Specific Equipment Failure problem, or why when time passes differently in the Warp and for many CSM it's only been a few(subjective) centuries since the Heresy they've all forgotten/abandoned their Heresy-era attitudes and styles of war.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Ankhalagon wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
What I think is an interesting implication is the likely stronger refocusing of CSM around the big 4 Daemon Primarchs. I don't think GW wants any semblance of Chaos Legions in the 40k era. Black Legion is now really a mishmosh of the most dedicated Chaos Marines who have come together from any legion and where the only other flavor GW prescribes is non-Legion renegades like Crimson Slaughter and KDK. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next CSM codex they outright say besides Black Legion there are no "Chaos Legions." -Not saying its a good thing, just the trajectory GW is on.

Which makes zero sense when you look at the actual models and rules. Like what happened to their storm bolters? An item so common that the Imperium outfits their fething shipping containers with them, yet the Crimson Slaughter couldn't manage to maintain theirs? A huge part of CSM flavor comes from the fact that they use Heresy-era Legion equipment. But wait! They're not Legions. Makes no sense.

Nothing makes any sense with the CSM this days....

I guess that's what happens when you create a faction and then decide you don't like the idea behind them anymore.

No, when you create a faction then decide you don't like the idea behind them anymore, they get Squatted.

Well, what if GW did (or are doing) like what they did with the space marines. You have Codex:Chaos space marines, which has all the stuff you need to play god specific/renegades/generic CSM and then abit later the released Codex:Traitor Legions? I would love if they got the generic CSM sorted out then dropped a specific book oriented towards the different legion with their own formations, detachments, and wargear.

Anyways, super glad that the 1k sons seem to getting some love and I HOPE oh do I that it better than what IG got in Mont'ka.

 Ir0njack wrote:
Well, what if GW did (or are doing) like what they did with the space marines. You have Codex:Chaos space marines, which has all the stuff you need to play god specific/renegades/generic CSM and then abit later the released Codex:Traitor Legions? I would love if they got the generic CSM sorted out then dropped a specific book oriented towards the different legion with their own formations, detachments, and wargear.

Anyways, super glad that the 1k sons seem to getting some love and I HOPE oh do I that it better than what IG got in Mont'ka.

Agreed. GW has been putting out multiple SM codexes for several editions of 40k because they know it's neccessary if they want a chapters like Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Ultra Marines etc. to really be different. Trying to cram the greater amount of variety found in Chaos SM, heresy chapters, demons, renegades, cultists, etc. into just one book is always going to short change the Chaos SM.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Well, what if GW did (or are doing) like what they did with the space marines. You have Codex:Chaos space marines, which has all the stuff you need to play god specific/renegades/generic CSM and then abit later the released Codex:Traitor Legions? I would love if they got the generic CSM sorted out then dropped a specific book oriented towards the different legion with their own formations, detachments, and wargear.

Anyways, super glad that the 1k sons seem to getting some love and I HOPE oh do I that it better than what IG got in Mont'ka.

Agreed. GW has been putting out multiple SM codexes for several editions of 40k because they know it's neccessary if they want a chapters like Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Ultra Marines etc. to really be different. Trying to cram the greater amount of variety found in Chaos SM, heresy chapters, demons, renegades, cultists, etc. into just one book is always going to short change the Chaos SM.

yet when they tried in 3.5 people just went on the oh Iron warriors get x nerf them, I liked the Lotd in The campaign book, i liked the 3 lists in second ed. People will never be happy

GW likes selling multiple books to the same person.

I hate it, but if I had to buy 2 separate books to play Iron Warriors that weren't balls I'd do it.