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imagine what the chaos update would look like.... oh god the random tables...

The Green Tide formation was removed from Waaagh! Ghazghkull v2.0?

I'm having trouble keeping track of what's real and what's speculation with all the nerd rage flying about. Is that just a rumor, or confirmed from someone who has the updated supplement?

If true, that doesn't make any sense. Why would they remove a popular formation? And if it's true that the Green Tide formation is still valid as long as you own the old supplement, how is it possible to reconcile which rules apply to which formations between versions of the supplement. e.g., in W!G v1.0, you couldn't mix and match relics from the main codex and the supplement, but in W!G v2.0 apparently you can?

Something is very wrong here.

EDIT:
Screenshots of "Orkurion" choices here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/680733.page
No Green Tide listed in the available choices, but does that mean it's been removed from the supplement?

Has it been confirmed all the formations have Da boss is watching and Biggest an'da best even when not in the orkcurion ?

And the green tide isn't even in the book?

I won't even be getting the book if these are true.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Are the bonuses for a single Core choice or multiples?

Single core but the two cores are horrible restrictive / expensive

Best list I can come up with for Orks in 1850pts is MSU spam.
Consists of waaagh band, council of waaagh

1 unit of ghaz, mad doc, but Mek in MA, 2 warlord in MA (1 Lukky stikk), 3 nobz (1 w waagh banner). They will likely outflank or move run charge across board

6 units of shoota boyz (or save 60 pts with slugga boyz)

Warboss w pk and 3x nobz on warbikes

gretchin holding home objective

Equal 1474pts

Hoping painmob has a cool formation bonus as stated like all friendly units within 6in of painboy has fnp or iwnd. To give the msu spam fnp for 244pts. Using the extra ~150 pts to sprinkle BC and PK in the msu lists.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Grimmor wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
"Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?! "

That's all well and good, sure. Except, All last year I bought loads and loads more Ork boys just to run several Green tides.
I'm still in the process of painting the last 200 shoota boys.
So, ya, I'm a bit disappointed at the loss of the Green Tide.
(Ebay, how I love you...)
As was pointed out to me a page ago, it's still a legal formation. Even if it's not a current one. And I'm completely ok with not being able to apply the WAAAAGH with it on turn one if need be.
I do think you red a little too much into what I posted.
I am going to try a different list with a trukk tax, just like most all the other warbosses. Just to see what it'll do.
But you know it's more about what I enjoy pushing across the table than anything else. there's just something I find satisfying about the green tides.

And i like a few large Mobz of boyz being supported by mass artillery fire and Speshulist Boyz. And the Ork-Curion doesnt support either of these play-styles. If you run a Trukk Boyz army, its wonderful, as you where probably running a fair amount of boyz mobz anyway, but it does nothing for the rest of us.

Decurion style formations arent supposed to shoe horn you into one particular playstyle, at least if they are good (see Necrons and Eldar) or at least make that one style very, very good (Gladius) We get, decent if you take trukks. Not free trukks, not improved trukks, just a possible 1st turn charge if you take trukks.

Ya, this clinches it, im gonna re write this Orkcurion.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Oh believe me im still pissed it went to a model basis and didnt get a price cut. Most expensive invul in the game. Tau MCs pay 50pts for a 4++ but thats also on an MC and a better save, so that price is justified, why the hell is the only ork invul so expensive and hard to get?

I havnt even used a KFF in eons because getting a big mek in the army is so damn difficult thanks to painboyz being an IC instead of akin to mekboyz. Random warbiker unit with a painboy is far, far better than a more expensive 5++.
And dont get me started on morkanauts. Just shy of 300pts, terrible shooting, lack of melee rules, still only a 5++.

Mogrok's Bossboyz are for spamming Big Meks, and the Formation bonus is actually decent on top of that. D3 Outflanking Acute senses units? Well if you twist my arm....

Right, its the same complaint im raising in the tactics thread. The counterargument is "just take a cad" well no duh we can take a cad, but guess what orks are so lousy we are severely gimping ourselves because we dont want to run the same damn list every game which this orkcurion style is forcing us to do.

Biker lists are impossible, Wagon lists are impossible, Dreadmob lists are impossible unless you dont use the orkcurion, which defeats the flippin' point of the update. Granted, the orcurion bonuses really dont do much for walkers/bikers, but army-wide potential fearless for bikers or army-wide run + charge for Dreadmob walkers is still very powerful...just impossible to get in a normal game. All thanks to those insane unit counts and random tax units (nobz, grots, why does the Dreadmob add a painboy?).

I shouldnt have to completely ignore formations to run a staple tactic of the orks for years upon years, and thats exactly what this update is making me do.

Also Mogrok's Bossboyz suffer from the pathetic Ghazzy sup rules (Da Boss Iz Watchin, Biggest n Da Best), which really makes me not like them. And i still think not having a warboss on bike the warlord is a suicide mission, as pretty much every other warlord option is easily dispatched.

Quick note, Mogrok's don't have either rule, that formation is from the Red Waaagh! book.

Oh, thought they had that abysmal rule too. Well that makes them alot better.

Also it would be rather funny if Da Lucky Stikk didnt say it doesnt stack with Waaagh! Banner bonus WS. Council would have a +3WS (1 from Waagh! banner, 1 from formation bonus if Waagh! banner is alive, and 1 from stikk). Thats WS9 warbosses rofl, since they also get +1 from the formation on top of the rest. Nobz would be WS7.
Rather pointless, since going beyond WS6 doesnt mean jack all, but would be funny to be able to claim that high of a WS lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Oh, thought they had that abysmal rule too. Well that makes them alot better.

Also it would be rather funny if Da Lucky Stikk didnt say it doesnt stack with Waaagh! Banner bonus WS. Council would have a +3WS (1 from Waagh! banner, 1 from formation bonus if Waagh! banner is alive, and 1 from stikk). Thats WS9 warbosses rofl, since they also get +1 from the formation on top of the rest. Nobz would be WS7.
Rather pointless, since going beyond WS6 doesnt mean jack all, but would be funny to be able to claim that high of a WS lol

Dis Warboss is da bestest fighta der is, he dueled one of dem pointy ears.

Ya pointless, but hysterical as you'd be hitting a bunch of named characters (not to mention the Nightbringer) on 4+ if not 3+.

Am i the only one expecting a ork codex update "soon" making this supplement suddenly really interesting.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Am i the only one expecting a ork codex update "soon" making this supplement suddenly really interesting.

I want to believe but my heart cannot take more disappointment.

If that's the case and it turns out to be good, then I will take back all of my complaints.

But I haven't seen a Codex rumour. Possibly because GW doesn't operate openly like that. Possibly becaues Tau didn't get a new one, just some models, IG didn't SW didn't.

I have to admit this ork detachment and update is pure jank. But what to expect from an update for the supplement when the codex is the core of all the orks problems.

Looks like my 3500pts of orks will remain unpainted and in a box until they get to a minimum level of being able to survive and compete againts Gladius/Decurion/Lion's Blade/Hunter Cadre list.

No wonder I have 3 marines army (Ultramarines, Raven Guard and Dark Angels). Dark Angels was meh before but I've only had to endure the 6th ed. codex for about 1 year and never played the older codexes.

 Vankraken wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Am i the only one expecting a ork codex update "soon" making this supplement suddenly really interesting.

I want to believe but my heart cannot take more disappointment.

Spoken true.

Im moving in a month or so, and since im terrible at packing in a reasonable speed i just pack things i dont think i'll need ahead of time. My gakload of orks (my siggy is what i can actually field, not what i own) are now in a box and i have 0 intentions of opening it for quite some time. 3by2by2 foot box of sprues n models..only the bitz box didnt fit in the end.

Quite frankly, even if they do something insane in the ork dex to make these formations viable and awesome, i'd still be a bit peeved because its still hardcoding me into mass boyz. One great tactic is not a great codex, its a loophole in the gak.

 oldzoggy wrote:

Waaargh wrote:

Trukk boys with boarding planks can try charge:

6" move, 6" disembarge, d6" run move (possibly re-roll with 1 in 3 chance of getting the Like a Thunderbolt warlord trait), 2d6" charge move with reroll of 1 dice, +2" from boarding planks.
6+6+d6+2+2d6 (1 re-roll)
14+3+8=25
Trukk boyz charge 25" beyond DZ onto the board on average.

Stormboyz go even faster:
12" move, 2d6" run, 2d6" charge with 1 re-roll.

12+2d6+2d6 (1 re-roll)
12+7+8=27
Stormboyz charge 27" beyond DZ onto the board on average.

Super funny but pls dn't count deployment zone as movement. Only count actual movement as movement ; )

Fixed.

 Frozocrone wrote:
If that's the case and it turns out to be good, then I will take back all of my complaints.

But I haven't seen a Codex rumour. Possibly because GW doesn't operate openly like that. Possibly becaues Tau didn't get a new one, just some models, IG didn't SW didn't.

The only way I can see this supplement being really good is a massive drop on point costs and fixes to many walkers.
But other then that this supplement focuses on boyz, walkers and nobs. Which is honestly what ghaz is known for but what I really am hoping for is a speed freak supplement.

Bring back Wazdakka!

If Zhadsnark came into the Codex I wouldn't mind.

Lol a white dwarf speed kulturion would be nice.
Especially if it didn;t have such an expensive core.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Lol a white dwarf speed kulturion would be nice.
Especially if it didn;t have such an expensive core.

I want a forgeworld speed freak IA book. We need new models for buggies, traks, skorchas. Throw in the Kopta and zhardsnark maybe gun wagons or big traks with updated rules and I'll be happy.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Bring back Wazdakka!

If Zhadsnark came into the Codex I wouldn't mind.

Here here!! I may have never used the guy, but he should still be there. As well as Old Zogwart!! GIVE ME BACK MY ORK DRUID!!!

Or maybe a mek buzzgob who allows all walkers to be half priced if he is the warlord. Not many people complained about his discounted stompa, to make a walker army viable FW could do the same for all our walker...and gw gets to sell walkers like they want.
There is also that obscure hq who is all about squigoths. After rebooting the squigoths to be descent mcs, have this guy allow peeps to take squigoths as dedicated transports if he is the warlord.
And then update znard a little.

Well, even if the speedfreak core is expensive, if its giving you warbikers as a core and not boyz it wouldnt matter. Heavily limits multi-strats but if they gave us a core based on every tactic orks can do, we could still play various tactics.

Bet the speedfreak still has a mandatory 3 boy squads and require a trukk or wagon. Admittedly, more manageable, but when i want heavy biker lists i dont want footboyz at all with or without a transport.

Also, nobody complains about the discount stompa because thats what a stompa should cost anyway. The codex stompa is grossly, GROSSLY overcosted. Which btw, we cant squeeze one into the orkurion can we? i dont remember seeing an option for a super, while eldar get to spam theirs and Tau can casually bring one in any list without really trying (if not multiple)
Codex stompa is inferior to an IK in every shape except it has more HP, for more than twice the cost. Lack of a stock invul even if its only one facing and options to do more than shrug forward and slap things with its Whirrrr Click Click! gatling gun and its D choppa doesnt justify how insanely expensive it is compared to a knight. Dont get me wrong, it has some nice dakka on it, but its still BS2 so most of it misses. Also unless i missed something, its not Assault so its transport does nothing but repair shenanigans with mekspam (skyrocketing its price too)

Edit: Take that back, there is an Aux for a stompa. Not like we can do it though with over 1k core requirements

I HATE , HATE HATE, Da boss is watching and Biggest and da best. The mob rule was bad but at least kind of useful, but those rules ruin the orks.

And I don't want to HAVE to take a 614 point formation just to not have to deal with the worst draw back any army has.

Ive made my own Ork-Curion Now go over there and rip it apart

Sigh. Oh, Orks. The more details we hear, the worse you get, while Space Wolves, Tau, Eldar, Marines, and even Daemons have been buffed with their latest releases

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Sigh. Oh, Orks. The more details we hear, the worse you get, while Space Wolves, Tau, Eldar, Marines, and even Daemons have been buffed with their latest releases

Well Daemons would have been if the Formations wheren't absolutely horrible. The MFD bonus is frelling amazing, its just that if your not running Slaanesh or Nurgle, your never gonna get it, and even Nurgle has to think really hard about it as 70 Plaguebearers is a big investment.

 Grimmor wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Sigh. Oh, Orks. The more details we hear, the worse you get, while Space Wolves, Tau, Eldar, Marines, and even Daemons have been buffed with their latest releases

Well Daemons would have been if the Formations wheren't absolutely horrible. The MFD bonus is frelling amazing, its just that if your not running Slaanesh or Nurgle, your never gonna get it, and even Nurgle has to think really hard about it as 70 Plaguebearers is a big investment.

They also got some nice new warlord traits and a ton of new relics, and didn't lose one of their iconic formations (apparently Green Tide is gone? Why?)

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
They also got some nice new warlord traits and a ton of new relics, and didn't lose one of their iconic formations (apparently Green Tide is gone? Why?)

This is true, but to be fair they didnt exactly have any formations to lose Im not saying they didnt get some nice stuff, its just that the nice stuff will only ever see the light of day in a CAD

There's a vlog on the miniwar gaming website that claims to have up to date info. Its titled Ork Decurion

http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/Ork-Decurion-revealed

At this point I'm praying to gork and Mork they changed da boss is watching and Biggest and da best

I assume those with the most gripes play 1850 and only 1850 lists? So tourney folk. If so, sorry.

None of the new Formation Detachments appear to cater to that crowd even though some are quite doable. It's obvious the intent is for bigger and bigger games (meaning the purchase of more and more models).