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 JimOnMars wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
I can't be bothered to read through what everyone has said but here is what Eldar need:
Less hate.
More expensive Wraithknight
An open-topped transport
Less hate
Webway Portals. There is no reason for Dark Eldar (and possibly Corsairs) to have this technology and not Eldar. Who use the Webway Portal to appear out of nowhere and kill their enemies.
Less hate.

And Less D. And Less Scatter lasers. And less Jetbikes as troops.

I'll agree to no Jetbike troops as long as Space marines cannot take Bike squads as troops.

For my Eldar, I'd like more men on foot that are actually useful in a real-game situation.

Currently, that list has only one entry: Warp Spiders. There are 11 other footmen units in the army, and they're all garbage.

Is it that shocking that people are fielding Eldar armies with all Jetbikes/Spiders/Wraithknights? There's absolutely no internal balance here, don't expect external balance.

Because marine bikers are totally equal to scatterbikes. Or even shurikannon bikes.

Yeah it's not like Marine bikes are toughness 5, and have access to grav guns, and atsknf and attack bikes with multi-meltas.

All bikes should be Fast Attack.

Unless it's a bike dedicated army like Saim-Han or Ravenwing. Then I'm okay with bikes as troops.

Bikes in general need toning down, they get an absurd number of bonuses over infantry for an increasingly small price premium.


On an SM 6pts gets you T5, 12" move, TL'd guns, relentless, Jink, and HoW hits. Likewise for Eldar, you get all of the above plus the benefits of being a Jetbike over a bike, an armor boost, and ridiculous heavy weapons access.

Bikes in general need to be more expensive and/or less capable, or changed altogether.

Drop Jink and HoW. Relentless only on attack bikes or other 'heavy' bikes if they pop up.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Yeah it's not like Marine bikes are toughness 5, and have access to grav guns, and atsknf and attack bikes with multi-meltas.

Scatbikes are still far superior.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Drop Jink and HoW. Relentless only on attack bikes or other 'heavy' bikes if they pop up.

I know back in 3rd only the guns mounted on the bikes counted as stationary. With the rapid fire rules at the time, this made plasma kinda "meh" to use. If they went back to that it would go a long way to de-fang grav bikers.

Bikes have received a large number of buffs recently. They way GW moves what’s hot around, I’d not expect them to keep their top status forever.

As for keeping them FA/troops, that’s increasingly irrelevant in todays formation based game.

Martel732 wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Yeah it's not like Marine bikes are toughness 5, and have access to grav guns, and atsknf and attack bikes with multi-meltas.

Scatbikes are still far superior.

Ehhhh no. Scatbikes are not that big of a deal. The problem is being able to take whole squads of them. I'm all for the 1 for every 3 option. But even then point for point marine bikers are better. I won't say far superior, but the versatility and addition of grav guns really makes them hard to top. And Eldar bikes are still T4 IIRC. Far easier to swat with the right weapons.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Yeah it's not like Marine bikes are toughness 5, and have access to grav guns, and atsknf and attack bikes with multi-meltas.

Scatbikes are still far superior.

Ehhhh no. Scatbikes are not that big of a deal. The problem is being able to take whole squads of them. I'm all for the 1 for every 3 option. But even then point for point marine bikers are better. I won't say far superior, but the versatility and addition of grav guns really makes them hard to top. And Eldar bikes are still T4 IIRC. Far easier to swat with the right weapons.

Range matters. A lot. And they do come in entire squads. So the ARE a big deal. Marine bikers that aren't White scars or Ravenwing are very manageable.

Meh grav guns drive me nuttier then scatbikers do. And again, bikes as troops should be a Ravenwing shtick only, and I'd be fine with jetbikes as troops being Saim-Han's shtick.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Meh grav guns drive me nuttier then scatbikers do. And again, bikes as troops should be a Ravenwing shtick only, and I'd be fine with jetbikes as troops being Saim-Han's shtick.

Regular grav guns aren't even that great. Scatterlasers are WAY more dangerous.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Meh grav guns drive me nuttier then scatbikers do. And again, bikes as troops should be a Ravenwing shtick only, and I'd be fine with jetbikes as troops being Saim-Han's shtick.

Except Marine bikers can take two Grav guns per squad. And that is it. Windriders can load the entire squad up with scatter lasers. Scatter lasers have better range, twice as many shots, and higher strength. Scatter bikes are better in every way than Grav bikes.

Scatterbikes burn down every AV 12 vehicle or less from 36" away. That's true power.

Oh, do I have a wishlist for my Tyranids:
-An HQ that would compete with the Flyrant (actually if the codex were fixed, then Flyrants could take a bit of a nerf)
-Warriors get a point decrease or move to T5
-A widely available upgrade that mimics offensive grenades
-A way to get our cc only units to cc
-Genestealers need to be given permanent stealth or assault out of outflank again, or something to make them just not suck
-longer range guns, oh boy do we need some longer range firepower, especially if they're going to keep pushing this game away from assault
-a more reliable way to use warp lance
-Pyrovores should have Torrent.....or something....I'd love to see these rise above completely useless

and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll be able to add more later

 Battlesong wrote:
Oh, do I have a wishlist for my Tyranids:
-An HQ that would compete with the Flyrant (actually if the codex were fixed, then Flyrants could take a bit of a nerf)
-Warriors get a point decrease or move to T5
-A widely available upgrade that mimics offensive grenades
-A way to get our cc only units to cc
-Genestealers need to be given permanent stealth or assault out of outflank again, or something to make them just not suck
-longer range guns, oh boy do we need some longer range firepower, especially if they're going to keep pushing this game away from assault
-a more reliable way to use warp lance
-Pyrovores should have Torrent.....or something....I'd love to see these rise above completely useless

and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll be able to add more later

I agree with most of this, but realize that most long range firepower in the game now sucks because of ROF issues.

Martel732 wrote:
Scatterbikes burn down every AV 12 vehicle or less from 36" away. That's true power.

And bounce off power and terminator armor like rain drops. Real power there. It has checks and balances.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Scatterbikes burn down every AV 12 vehicle or less from 36" away. That's true power.

And bounce off power and terminator armor like rain drops. Real power there. It has checks and balances.

You've not actually faced any well played Scatbike armies have you....

*cough*used to play Eldar *cough*

Eldar:

Less Hate
More Expensive Wraithknight
Scatterlasers 1 in 3 for Jetbikes
Less Hate

Yup, 1 in 3 fixes Scatterlaser bikes for good.

 War Kitten wrote:
Eldar:

Less Hate
More Expensive Wraithknight
Scatterlasers 1 in 3 for Jetbikes
Less Hate

You're removed 1/2 of the problem! We will reduce hate by 1/2!

 JimOnMars wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
Eldar:

Less Hate
More Expensive Wraithknight
Scatterlasers 1 in 3 for Jetbikes
Less Hate

You're removed 1/2 of the problem! We will reduce hate by 1/2!

Whats left to hate?

Btw - really selfish but I hope the bikes remain at 1/1 heavy weapons if only because I don't have to shell out for 36 more bikes!

CSM: Has been said numerous times, so I agree with all of them.

KDK: Have the STR D bloodthirster strike at initiative. Otherwise I'm actually cool with that codex.

Daemons: Some way to assault from reserves, seeing as it's the new hotness. If we had that, then I am satisfied along with the new formations, powers, etc.

 Torus wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
Eldar:

Less Hate
More Expensive Wraithknight
Scatterlasers 1 in 3 for Jetbikes
Less Hate

You're removed 1/2 of the problem! We will reduce hate by 1/2!

Whats left to hate?

Btw - really selfish but I hope the bikes remain at 1/1 heavy weapons if only because I don't have to shell out for 36 more bikes!

D weapon spam I think is most of the other half.

When I build my modern bike squad, I used magnets. My two old ones I just built 1-3 with shuricannons, but those were a trickier conversion. I figured the all HW bikes would not survive to the next codex. Sometimes things do get adjusted. Hope so, at least.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Scatterbikes burn down every AV 12 vehicle or less from 36" away. That's true power.

And bounce off power and terminator armor like rain drops. Real power there. It has checks and balances.

Power armor and terminator actually can't save you from wound spam. That's the whole point of wound spam.

Martel732 wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Scatterbikes burn down every AV 12 vehicle or less from 36" away. That's true power.

And bounce off power and terminator armor like rain drops. Real power there. It has checks and balances.

Power armor and terminator actually can't save you from wound spam. That's the whols point of wound spam.

Terminator armour is 2 times as likely to save the wound in comparison to regular power armour. When you look at the price tag and realize that a Terminator costs more than 2 PA marines you realize that point for point TDA is weaker in soaking wounds.

 Torus wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
Eldar:

Less Hate
More Expensive Wraithknight
Scatterlasers 1 in 3 for Jetbikes
Less Hate

You're removed 1/2 of the problem! We will reduce hate by 1/2!

Whats left to hate?

Btw - really selfish but I hope the bikes remain at 1/1 heavy weapons if only because I don't have to shell out for 36 more bikes!

D + Jetbikes as troops (all the other codexes have removed "take X as troops"...not Eldar)