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Oops, had the points off a bit. Thanks.

I stand by my characterization.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Marines in 5 man squads are 3 pts a model in that detachment. I don't know how expensive those weapons are but quite sure that they aren't close to 100 points.

No, they have free transports. Do not mistake the two.

This is the core issue with that formation. The whole reason for this formation is to get those transports. Claiming that you get free Razorbacks with every 5 marines is completely upside down when you are buying into it for the Razorbacks. Just like the get a free day train ticket when you buy a book* really becomes a train ticket with as bonus a cheap book when you are buying it for the train ticket. *( this is a thing in the Netherlands)

And it just happened to be that razorback spam has been a popular play style for years now.
I have seen all kinds of list with any kind of crappy units in them just to max the amount of razorbacks. Razorback spam list traditionally had a tax per Razorback in order to get them. That tax is now reduced to only 3 points a model in a minimum squad of space marines.

And 3 points for a marine is bad for the game. Really bad.

You can deny the 3 pts marines all you want but pls ask yourselves do you really buy this formation for the tac marines or for the free transports ?

The idea that anybody isn't buying it for the free transports is laughable. The only question is whether the free transport combination is "fair" in the current meta.

yea I've never seen anyone take a GSF Battle company except in min squads to spam razorbacks and maybe drop pods. No one is take a battle company of just marines.

Well, they did spam Tacs in early 7th. Obsec spam. Some versions used the UM CM with it.

The Tacs didn't get worse. Some of the other lists got better. And now Gladius makes it effective again.

Not sure it is fair vs Eldar or tau. It sure isn't vs most other armies.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Not sure it is fair vs Eldar or tau. It sure isn't vs most other armies.

It's absolutely fair against Eldar and Tau. In fact, Eldar and Tau still have the advantage! And it's fair vs Necrons, too.

Between the big four balance is roughly equal with eldar being the best. Then there is a pretty steep drop off from there.

DA are really good, too. They may lack the model count, though.

Martel732 wrote:
DA are really good, too. They may lack the model count, though.

Only GSF and Ravenwing are good our termies are still rotten garbage. Plus, DA miss out on most of the cool stuff SM get, like Storm Talons, TF Cannons, Centurions, etc. We only just got Grav Guns

Huh, if Eldar is best I must be doing something wrong. Maybe I should spam Scatbikes and Wraithknights instead of playing fun lists.

If your playing a less competitive list then the odds are more even but If your going for the hardest hitting list with no regard to fluff or fairness then no book really does it better than eldar.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If your playing a less competitive list then the odds are more even but If your going for the hardest hitting list with no regard to fluff or fairness then no book really does it better than eldar.

What if we just run Rhinos in our GSF? That's fluffy....

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If your playing a less competitive list then the odds are more even but If your going for the hardest hitting list with no regard to fluff or fairness then no book really does it better than eldar.

What if we just run Rhinos in our GSF? That's fluffy....

And ten-man squads. That's also fluffy, right?

I can't remember the last time I ran a 10-man squad. Even in 5th. They're just so bad.

If GSF were errata'd to "FREE" Rhinos for full 10-man squads, I think we'd all be OK with it.

I would as well. At that point I'd argue that's a worse option than just taking a 5 man squad and buying them a transport.

And yet, that's what would actually match the Codex Astartes that the formation purports to promote...

That's true, I really wish Imperial Heavy weapons outside the Grav Cannon where better.

10 man squads are awful, though.

I wish I could pull an eldar and give my guys as many special weapons as I'm willing to shell out points for.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I wish I could pull an eldar and give my guys as many special weapons as I'm willing to shell out points for.

Well it would have to be one unit, and your choices would have to be limited to two options.

Lets not dance around it, it's two really good options.

 Happyjew wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I wish I could pull an eldar and give my guys as many special weapons as I'm willing to shell out points for.

Well it would have to be one unit, and your choices would have to be limited to two options.

1st world problems.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I wish I could pull an eldar and give my guys as many special weapons as I'm willing to shell out points for.

Pretty sure the SM Dev squad basically does that already.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I wish I could pull an eldar and give my guys as many special weapons as I'm willing to shell out points for.

Pretty sure the SM Dev squad basically does that already.

SM Dev squads are heavy weapons, not special weapons.

As are the Eldar Jetbike Weapons.

Well, if you really want lots of Special Weapons, you can always play CSM for their Havocs, or IG for their Veterans. Good luck with that...

If you want special weapon spam, try Sisters of Battle. Grab a mix of Repressors and Immolators and you have a surprisingly solid Rhino-rush style list.

Every person that plays an OP army or OP formation claims it isn't OP. Every person that plays an army or formation that isn't OP claims that the rest of the players do play an OP formation or army.

Eldar, Necrons, Tau, lots of SM builds, certain daemon builds and certain nid builds are OP.

It doesn't matter though. You need to be good at this game to make use of what you have. I play corsairs and because they are eldar, they are considered OP. I don't get to play much and I'm not very good so I lose...

It's a shame for me but I love my corsairs and I will play them anyway. If I play against a fluffy list and I win, great. If I play against a rock solid force or a great player and I lose, I've learned something most likely.