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OTOH, some of us have been collecting and playing our army for more than a decade, and have seen the ups and downs...

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If your playing a less competitive list then the odds are more even but If your going for the hardest hitting list with no regard to fluff or fairness then no book really does it better than eldar.

What if we just run Rhinos in our GSF? That's fluffy....

I wrote out a list of GSF that spams grav cannons on it tac squads in rhinos. I think it is possible it might even be better than running a razorback.

I bet if they errata'd GSF so you had to have 10 man squads, people wouldn't complain like they do... Nothing like 100 marines on the board.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
Every person that plays an OP army or OP formation claims it isn't OP. Every person that plays an army or formation that isn't OP claims that the rest of the players do play an OP formation or army.

Eldar, Necrons, Tau, lots of SM builds, certain daemon builds and certain nid builds are OP.

It doesn't matter though. You need to be good at this game to make use of what you have. I play corsairs and because they are eldar, they are considered OP. I don't get to play much and I'm not very good so I lose...

It's a shame for me but I love my corsairs and I will play them anyway. If I play against a fluffy list and I win, great. If I play against a rock solid force or a great player and I lose, I've learned something most likely.

This isn't necessarily true. I started playing Eldar back in 6th and I to this day still don't own a wave serpent. I saw how much hate they drew in our 6th edition codex and I wanted to avoid being "that guy". Now in 7th I'll be the first to admit that the WK is undercosted and needs a points boost and that 1 heavy weapon per bike never should have happened. I like my bikes but I still run them to this day as 1 weapon per 3 bikes, they see to be much better balanced like that. Just because a person plays an army that is considered OP doesn't instantly mean he agrees with every design choice of that army and doesn't mean he's going to use all the OP selections.

Some people are also old hats at an army and have been playing them for years, through thick and thin. It's hard to call those players a WAAC "that guy" by playing the Eldar army today since they've been with that force for so long. I started 40k with a chaos army back in their days when they were top tier, now look where were at, I still have them though and use them from time to time. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum now, my army was good, now it sucks and I wait for the day that it'll be good again (in both rules AND design).

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
This isn't necessarily true. I started playing Eldar back in 6th

6th? Why, you're still wet behind the ears compared to us old fogies who started playing Eldar back in 2nd...

We remember when the Falcon came out, and it had a rules Datasheet so you could play it.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
This isn't necessarily true. I started playing Eldar back in 6th

6th? Why, you're still wet behind the ears compared to us old fogies who started playing Eldar back in 2nd...

We remember when the Falcon came out, and it had a rules Datasheet so you could play it.

Remember 2nds vehicle damage template? Now that thing was fun
I have one and its accompanying gak-ton of data cards in storage somewhere!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
This isn't necessarily true. I started playing Eldar back in 6th

6th? Why, you're still wet behind the ears compared to us old fogies who started playing Eldar back in 2nd...

We remember when the Falcon came out, and it had a rules Datasheet so you could play it.

Haha yeah back when I started it was between Eldar or Chaos and we already had an Eldar player so I opted for Chaos. I don't regret my decision but I'm glad I finally caved and started an Eldar force. If I'm perfectly honest I love painting them more than any other model I've ever put a brush to. One day I'll look back on this dex and say to younger players "Well back in MY day we could take a scatter laser on EVERY jetbike and our Wraithknight is HALF the cost it is now. And we didn't have these new fangled rules variant wraithguard that have rules to match each of the aspect warriors..."

Come to think of it that last bit would be kind of cool...

 master of ordinance wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
We remember when the Falcon came out, and it had a rules Datasheet so you could play it.

Remember 2nds vehicle damage template? Now that thing was fun
I have one and its accompanying gak-ton of data cards in storage somewhere!

Wasn't that the Rogue Trader Vehicle Companion? With the acetate crosshairs that you moved over the picture of the model? OMG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
This isn't necessarily true. I started playing Eldar back in 6th

6th? Why, you're still wet behind the ears compared to us old fogies who started playing Eldar back in 2nd...

We remember when the Falcon came out, and it had a rules Datasheet so you could play it.

Haha yeah back when I started it was between Eldar or Chaos and we already had an Eldar player so I opted for Chaos. I don't regret my decision but I'm glad I finally caved and started an Eldar force. If I'm perfectly honest I love painting them more than any other model I've ever put a brush to. One day I'll look back on this dex and say to younger players "Well back in MY day we could take a scatter laser on EVERY jetbike and our Wraithknight is HALF the cost it is now. And we didn't have these new fangled rules variant wraithguard that have rules to match each of the aspect warriors..."

Come to think of it that last bit would be kind of cool...

Pish. Back in the day, all of our non-Guardian infantry was metal. And there was only one flavor of Wraithguard. But yeah, a well-painted Eldar army is the best.

Yep, thats the one

Vehicles were bad in 2nd because there were too many explodes results on the damage table. Plus, it was too easy to rip off tracks in assault.

I started Eldar back in 2nd edition. The wave serpent did not have an official model. I still have my scratch built model. The wraith guard only had wraith cannon, and had to be guided by a spiritseer. My jetbikes only have 1 shuriken canon in three models. I had to move somewhere between 4th and 5th edition and lost all of my opponents. I come back in the middle of seventh edition, and ask myself where did all the scatter lasers come from? Then add in all of the destroyer weapons, gargantuan creatures, flyers, Titans, and super heavies and the game isn't even recognizable to me anymore.

@WaughGoff - it's totally recognizable - if you played Epic 40k...

Oh, it's "recognizable" as 40K. Just not WH40K. I never played Epic. I prefer the skirmish scale. If I wanted to play titans and flyers, I would have played Epic. IMO that's where they should have stayed.

WaughGoff wrote:
Oh, it's "recognizable" as 40K. Just not WH40K. I never played Epic. I prefer the skirmish scale. If I wanted to play titans and flyers, I would have played Epic. IMO that's where they should have stayed.

There's nothing inherently wrong with adding everything under one giant umbrella. Just use some common fething sense when arranging games.

For example, generally, it's a good idea to disallow SHV's/GMC's in games of 1500pts or less, just like most decent human beings can agree that things like Land Raiders don't belong in games of 750pts or less!
If you're playing a 7.5ed codex against a 6th or 7thed codex, it doesn't take genius level IQ to realise that it would probably be a good idea to leave the Decurion style detachment at home for the day, or at the very least, warn/ask your opponent if they're okay with going up against it.

Tournaments will always self-police themselves in the end anyways, and entering into such an event should always be 'with eyes wide open' as it were, since any tournament worth its salts will have a published rules/event packet explaining exactly what is or isn't allowed! (and if it doesn't, then it's not worth entering obviously!)

Just throwing in my lot here, but GSF isn't a massive issue, it's the spamming of MSU which leads to the opposite of what the formation should have been IMO.

I run the formation with full Tactical Squads. No cutting corners, I always hate running half-squads of Tacticals. I'd still play it if I had to run ten mans.

Of course, this is all opinion.

Er, I made a post several pages back, saying I'd come back with a list that I thought made as much abuse of the freebies as I could. I posted it up here...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/682762.page

and where I'd previously been of the opinion that the Dual BDC wasn't "OP" I'm kind of coming around towards believing it's... Over Bodied? Especially when built towards a drive for centre and sit there strategy. I'm not sure what could dislodge them efficiently. Knights, maybe. I'd have a hard time with those, I guess, based on the list I made.

I don't know. I guess I'm just fishing for some cross-contamination here. Worst case scenario, it should give something concrete to work with.