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On a more serious note I hope the Brexit isnt a sign of things to come in the US. A platform built on fears of outsiders, jigonism and some may even say plain racism spearheadded by the older well off segment of the population, clearly on the Right of the politisphere; sounds uncomfortably similar to a platform being endorsed by a certain overripe orange with a bad case of mold on the top
Nothing to worry about. People have tried to succeed from our Union before- and, well...
Kilkrazy wrote: There isn't a fundamental and intended lack of democracy in the EU.
Every single EU directive is directed, developed and authorised by the elected representatives of the member nations. The top level is the council of ministers comprising the elected political leaders of the member countries, like Cameron for the UK.
The working parties on specialist areas are headed up by the elected ministers of the member countries who deal with those specialist areas, such as the health minister for medical issues.
Finally, the directives are scrutinised by the directly elected European Parliament. After that they only become law within each member state by the directly elected member state parliaments creating laws to enact them.
In effect there are four levels of democratic oversight.
This is one of the dreadful sad things. The democratic structure is there, but people haven't been informed about it.
Its what happens when people base their opinions on emotions and not knowledge and facts.
It is something that is currently going on in the united states.
The states and their people are instead of using logic are ignoring the problems of the country and only think about themselves in the short term, and follow slogans because they think it is right through emotion.
WE are seeing this more and more.
The working class will be hit tremendously by leaving the EU, students who could go abroad to other countries to study can't anymore because they need a passport. Travel throughout the EU is now sort of harder.
The british pound will fall and so will the EU.
It is not good that the Brits left the EU, which was trying to become a super power that could rival the US, which is slowly losing its hegemonic power, as is russia and china.
IT is incredibly short sighted personally to say "Good riddance to the EU!"
Without thinking what happens if there was a revolt, your country is split down the middle now. That sense of unity has been replaced with hatred of the other, and it might give rise to the British Version of the Republician party from the united states.
It is wholly possible within reason for that to happen because of such a division exists.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
On a more serious note I hope the Brexit isnt a sign of things to come in the US. A platform built on fears of outsiders, jigonism and some may even say plain racism spearheadded by the older well off segment of the population, clearly on the Right of the politisphere; sounds uncomfortably similar to a platform being endorsed by a certain overripe orange with a bad case of mold on the top
Nothing to worry about. People have tried to succeed from our Union before- and, well...
Spoiler:
The American South is crazy, but it ain't dumb.
Texit . It's coming!
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
... or just willfully ignored it because of agenda.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SirDonlad wrote: For anyone who voted to remain:
I was basically prepping myself to be in your position not 24 hours ago, so i get that you are pretty pee-ed off right now, but this doesn't mean your opinion will be ignored.
48% of the voters is by no means a small number and your opinion WILL be used in future political debate, i can almost garuantee it.
To further what end, exactly? Our opinion has been ignored, and we will be forced into a situation we did not want, or agree with. That hardly salves the wounds tbh, rather just rubs our noses in it.
This referendum gained a massive turnout based on a variety of issues not normally talked about in the UK and if any politician wants to win people over in a way which ensures their election they will HAVE to incorporate your opinion. 52/48 in favour is a win, but not a comfortable enough margin to ignore the other 48%.
In terms of raw data about the British peoples political leanings this referendum was a gold mine.
I did a quick calculation and found that in this referendum my vote was worth 0.00000298% of the overall vote. not bad i thought.
Of the 46501241 people with a vote, 12949258 people did not vote.
Anyone got any words for them?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
There is a question I'd liked to pick everyone's brain about in lieu of the vote.
Why are these momentous, important, decisions decided by simple majority?
It was the same with the Scottish referendum. If 50.00001% of the population thinks something should happen, that means nearly fifty doesn't. Something this important and with so many changes should be decided by more than a simple majority. You want there to be a general support by most of the country. I'd say both of these votes are at least as important as a new constitutional amendment here in the US, and we 2/3rds of both houses and 3/4s of the states to ratify. I'd say any decision this big should need at least a super-majority. What do you guys think?
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
In terms of raw data about the British peoples political leanings this referendum was a gold mine.
I did a quick calculation and found that in this referendum my vote was worth 0.00000298% of the overall vote. not bad i thought.
Of the 46501241 people with a vote, 12949258 people did not vote.
Anyone got any words for them?
Several words, none of which are acceptable here on Dakka.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/24 21:48:02
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
I did a quick calculation and found that in this referendum my vote was worth 0.00000298% of the overall vote. not bad i thought.
Of the 46501241 people with a vote, 12949258 people did not vote.
Anyone got any words for them?
yeah they don't care, just like the millions in the US who do not vote.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
On a more serious note I hope the Brexit isnt a sign of things to come in the US. A platform built on fears of outsiders, jigonism and some may even say plain racism spearheadded by the older well off segment of the population, clearly on the Right of the politisphere; sounds uncomfortably similar to a platform being endorsed by a certain overripe orange with a bad case of mold on the top
Nothing to worry about. People have tried to succeed from our Union before- and, well...
Spoiler:
The American South is crazy, but it ain't dumb.
I doubt Northern American States would get away with killing people these days if they just wanted to take their states out of the union.
I did a quick calculation and found that in this referendum my vote was worth 0.00000298% of the overall vote. not bad i thought.
Of the 46501241 people with a vote, 12949258 people did not vote.
Anyone got any words for them?
yeah they don't care, just like the millions in the US who do not vote.
Happens, but I rather they have the choice to, than not be mandated to by a higher government because most typical citizens will fail economics 101 and can't even identify a potential candidate.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
The reality is that not voting is a vote in itself; it's a vote for "I don't care." Breaking down why people don't care enough to vote can be just as, and maybe even more, politically significant than breaking down why they vote for one side or the other.
In terms of raw data about the British peoples political leanings this referendum was a gold mine.
I did a quick calculation and found that in this referendum my vote was worth 0.00000298% of the overall vote. not bad i thought.
Of the 46501241 people with a vote, 12949258 people did not vote.
Anyone got any words for them?
Several words, none of which are acceptable here on Dakka.
@Co'tor Shas: tough question.
I think that in this case, the scenario was set in a binary fasion.
I'm trying not to just go "it was the EU!!" but Mr Cameron didn't seem to have an in-between option available to him.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
LordofHats wrote: The reality is that not voting is a vote in itself; it's a vote for "I don't care." Breaking down why people don't care enough to vote can be just as, and maybe even more, politically significant than breaking down why they vote for one side or the other.
Ideally it is called the way of doing nothing by some. It is usually the best answer for most things in the world.
"Honey do you have an opinion on (Female Related issue that a guy has no business talking about)"
*Do nothing = profit *
You can avoid a great many political circumstances as well. Infact that was essentially the cold war, doing nothing to Russia or to the United States.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
LordofHats wrote: The reality is that not voting is a vote in itself; it's a vote for "I don't care." Breaking down why people don't care enough to vote can be just as, and maybe even more, politically significant than breaking down why they vote for one side or the other.
kind of like PB when they did their infamous GenCon vote, those who did not vote were allegedly saying it was ok for PB to sell at GenCon before issuing to backers.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
LordofHats wrote: The reality is that not voting is a vote in itself; it's a vote for "I don't care." Breaking down why people don't care enough to vote can be just as, and maybe even more, politically significant than breaking down why they vote for one side or the other.
I am reminded of Rush, funnily enough:
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".
I'm curious to see what will happen from now. No, really. I wonder if that decision will truly be respected or if people will realize what they have done and try to find a way out of it.
And yes, the referendum on simple majority was a very stupid thing to do. Now we can see the UK is totally divided in two sides, blaming/hating each other.
But then, some very interesting changes may come out of it...it's like a kick in the anthill, after all!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/24 22:15:58
I'm curious to see what will happen from now. No, really. I wonder if that decision will truly be respected or if people realize what they have done and try to find a way out of it.
And yes, the referendum on simple majority was a very stupid thing to do. Now we can see the UK is totally divided in two sides.
But then, some very interesting changes may come out of it...it's like a kick in the anthill, after all!
Mmmm, a slim majority that may not even last a week due to people changing their minds is not a good starting point for something that will affect the whole country.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/24 22:16:31
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Co'tor Shas wrote: There is a question I'd liked to pick everyone's brain about in lieu of the vote.
Why are these momentous, important, decisions decided by simple majority?
It was the same with the Scottish referendum. If 50.00001% of the population thinks something should happen, that means nearly fifty doesn't. Something this important and with so many changes should be decided by more than a simple majority. You want there to be a general support by most of the country. I'd say both of these votes are at least as important as a new constitutional amendment here in the US, and we 2/3rds of both houses and 3/4s of the states to ratify. I'd say any decision this big should need at least a super-majority. What do you guys think?
I think you have a point. I'm starting to think that a mere 2% is not enough to go on.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/24 22:33:59
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
Ah right, gotcha - he was talking about the difference between the vote and i thought he was talking about the people who didn't bother turning up.
I should probably rest too, i haven't had a day feeling as good as this for quite some time and its wearing me down.
Time for a batrep or two methinks.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
A Town Called Malus wrote: The petition for requiring a 60% majority with 75% turnout has hit 390k signatures.
Wait so the sore losers want to remove the winners victory (essentially giving them victory) because the majority aren't majority enough for their tastes?
It is 1.8% of the total population. That's not a lot.
3.8% of the voters. It's not much but it's enough. Those saying it was unwise to vote to leave because of the divisiveness could easy see it the other way around; it was unwise to vote Remain because now the country is split.
problem is if the UK back peddles now it will make them look weak and needing the EU, thereby giving the EU leverage over the UK, so either the UK sticks with leaving or they will be returning as lesser then when they left.
that and the EU just slapped the UK with the proverbial glove, telling them to get out now:
That is true, though. Scotland as a new nation would have had to apply for membership of the EU like Slovenia or Latvia.
What if they get their act together, negotiate with the French and Germans,and sort out a Scottish exit within 2 years whilst still a member of the EU?
I can imagine our Euro cousins might enjoy the ramifications and humiliation of England I those circumstances, and it might serve as warning to other countries considering their own indy ref.
I think this is a real possibility. They will do it to don't bypass the language filter like this. Last warning. reds8n us over and I don't blame them.
England has declared economic war on Europe. I don't think people have comprehended the depths of hatred this will unleash. On C4 this evening, a Polish MEP was invoking the Polish airmen that died in the Battle of Britain and saying, don't expect any more.
Remember, the Poles lost their freedom and didn't get it back fully until the EU. And now the English have told them to feth off because their plumbers are too good.
I sensed his hate - and I know he was right. I felt profoundly ashamed. We have not begun to experience the magnitude of this . There are some deluded souls in the tory party revelling in the possible collapse of the whole EU project. But the guilt will be on us.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/06/25 07:44:12
A quick self-serving note for any Europhiles in rUK - keep in mind that the franchise in Scotland is dependent on residence not nationality, so if you want to keep your EU citizenship feel free to move up here before indyref2 and vote away, we've plenty of room
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
A Town Called Malus wrote: The petition for requiring a 60% majority with 75% turnout has hit 390k signatures.
Wait so the sore losers want to remove the winners victory (essentially giving them victory) because the majority aren't majority enough for their tastes?
The people who sign that petition are pathetic.
Nah, they are smart.
I agree with them. Decisions this huge and impactful should not be decided by such tiny majorities because doing something virtually half the people disagrees with is not very democratic any way you look at it. Especially when you consider that places like Scotland, Gibraltar and London voted overwhelmingly in favour of the EU and are now forced to go along with what England and Wales decided just because they happen to have larger populations. That is no democracy, that is tyranny of the majority. It is for this reason that many states require supermajorities of 65%, 75% or even larger for changes to their constitution. I think the same should apply to decisions that are similarly impactful.
EAT - SLEEP - FARM - REPEAT 
