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I'm clearly a little lost here.

 DarkLink wrote:
Yes, no one in this entire thread has critisized your opinions or posting behavior in any way whatsoever .

1) You've been criticized yourself a fair bit, so I'd be careful tossing that one around, it probably fits most of us more then we'd like.

2) I think, and this includes myself in my response to John earlier, we've gotten pretty far afield from discussing the poll and instead have been discussing the posters for a page or two, so we *might* want to try and get back on track.

3) The only good thing is that no matter what happens, the poll results come out, and these threads will end (or at least begin a complaining deathspiral that leads to locking).


@moreontopic

I think the take away should be from this that the community *really* cares how these polls are conducted, and they need to keep improving. This one didn't insert as much bias/opinion in, but it also lacked enough background information. If we're (community) going to do these polls, I think we need to:

-Assume your average voter is uninformed
-Assume your average voter isn't intimately familiar with the rule in question (there are about 14 armies and a million supplements, most people play a couple)

As such:
-Include the rules basis for the question. All relevant rules quotes should be included, then a question. For Example: "The Holophoton Countermeasures Rule from Codex: Tau Empire states: (EXACT QUOTE). Given the text there is confusion as to whether a holophotons are activated model by model, or all at once by a unit. The difference would be three activations in a unit of three ghostkeels, versus one." Then your question.

I think if we adjusted the polls to have no opinion, include the background info, and state the options, we'd be in a much better place. For instance, I'm probably more up on rules then almost anyone, and I'm not very familiar with the specific Corsair's question that was asked.

No more personal posts / insinuations about the character of other posters --- this thread is for discussing the ITC poll! Anything else is off-topic...

Thanks all

1) You've been criticized yourself a fair bit, so I'd be careful tossing that one around, it probably fits most of us more then we'd like.

The point of the metaphor is the ability to recognize blind spots. I'm occasionally wrong about stuff and tend to err on the side of supporting Frontline, at least in public, because Reece and Frankie are awesome guys and good friends who are doing a better job than anyone else out there at organizing a large scale 40k tournament scene. So, sure, sometimes I defend them from a bit of criticism they might actually deserve. It's not like you haven't taken heat for the way you've run team america, but unless you actually are running a secret cabal then a lot of that criticism is either mitigated or undeserved.

Until I spam a half dozen threads with the positive equivalent of "ITC is the worst thing evar and Reece and Frankie are out to get the tau players", only to get repeatedly and thoroughly rebuffed by most of the people in those threads, I'm not going to feel too bad about backing them up, any more than you'll feel bad about player selection for team america.

 DarkLink wrote:

1) You've been criticized yourself a fair bit, so I'd be careful tossing that one around, it probably fits most of us more then we'd like.

The point of the metaphor is the ability to recognize blind spots. I'm occasionally wrong about stuff and tend to err on the side of supporting Frontline, at least in public, because Reece and Frankie are awesome guys and good friends who are doing a better job than anyone else out there at organizing a large scale 40k tournament scene. So, sure, sometimes I defend them from a bit of criticism they might actually deserve. It's not like you haven't taken heat for the way you've run team america, but unless you actually are running a secret cabal then a lot of that criticism is either mitigated or undeserved.

Until I spam a half dozen threads with the positive equivalent of "ITC is the worst thing evar and Reece and Frankie are out to get the tau players", only to get repeatedly and thoroughly rebuffed by most of the people in those threads, I'm not going to feel too bad about backing them up, any more than you'll feel bad about player selection for team america.

Yup, by saying most of us I was including myself. And yeah, Gamgee/CKO can be a tad...over the top, but hey, it's the internet, it's sadly what most of us have come to expect right? Heck, there are a few people in this thread I have on ignore and I'll tell you it drastically improves the experience. The problem is the back and forth (both sides, and def. some are more to blame on each in this thread) can really detract from people who are more critical of the ITC from getting across decent points that could improve the ITC, and from people who support the ITC from seeing them, because it's all hidden in ten feet of internet muck.

Now about this secret cabal....how would one go about setting this up....

 RiTides wrote:
No more personal posts / insinuations about the character of other posters --- this thread is for discussing the ITC poll! Anything else is off-topic...

Thanks all

As noted above - let's get back on-topic.

Is the plan to still release the results of the poll today? I saw mention of it being delayed but wasn't sure if that was official or just a guess...

 RiTides wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
No more personal posts / insinuations about the character of other posters --- this thread is for discussing the ITC poll! Anything else is off-topic...

Thanks all

As noted above - let's get back on-topic.

Is the plan to still release the results of the poll today? I saw mention of it being delayed but wasn't sure if that was official or just a guess...

Official, they posted that on FLG. Said it'd be delayed a couple hours.

Personally I think there should be no preemptive nerfing of anything.

Most things that people think are broken we find that there is some fatal flaw that makes them not work as everyone feared. The ones that do work well the meta ends up coming around to compensate and diminishes it's impact. With the nerf bat swinging it takes out combos that sometimes do not need to be nerfed, or combos that strategy and tactics can take care of.

I think that we should only vote to nerf things that are proven to be too powerful, and the meta can't compensate for.

So we should be voting about nerfing warp spider armies, and instead we are voting on Tau.

Sorry Blackmoor, but you're kinda late to the party. Warp Spiders already are nerfed in the ITC.

Alan what do you think should be nerfed ? I really want to know !

Just finished watching the Signals from the Frontline and here were a few decisions that I picked up:

1) Stay with three detachments
2) Points limit: Stay at 1850 - sly Frankie voted 1850 lol, Reecius outing him like that! They are trying to think of ways to increase awareness of time.
3) Dead even between 1500 and 1650 (1650 had a slight edge but irrelevant)
4) Not sure on Gargantuan toe in cover.
5) Ghostkeel one was dead even.
6) Not sure on Pirahna ones
7) Chaos Knights can use Legacies of Ruins
8) Corsairs don't get to move after Overwatch

They still need to verify emails and stuff but this is what it looks like at the minute.

They are also going to address GreenTide being removed.

Per Reece on FLG website: OK, nm, trying to get the data verified but day is running short. The shipments coming in late burned a day on us.
So far for sure:
1,850pts
3 Detachments
ITC Faction will be the detachment with the most points in it
Yes to Chaos Knight with Legacies
No to Eldar Corsair Jetbikes shooting then scooting in overwatch
The rest to come very soon! Sorry for the delay.
- See more at: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/02/26/signals-from-the-frontline-will-be-late-today-2/#comments


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh ninja'd by Frozocone

Bummer about 1850, I totally would have been tempted to build something for 1500! At least there's 3 detachment sanity lol

I missed the ITC faction decision though. They said a whole bunch of decisions, then someone prompted their memory and they asked that.

Wait til I post my LVO battle reports using the Chaos Knight and a Legacy of Ruin. muhahahahaha......

 jy2 wrote:
Wait til I post my LVO battle reports using the Chaos Knight and a Legacy of Ruin. muhahahahaha......

Yes that is a very strong combo. Daemon psykers rerolling 6 dice a turn on top of the Knight with a 2++. Ouch!

wait, why can Chaos Knights use Legacies, but not knights taken in an SM detahcment?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
wait, why can Chaos Knights use Legacies, but not knights taken in an SM detahcment?

Because that's what was voted for in this last poll?

Also, I think legacies work different between CSM and SM, not sure.

 Frozocrone wrote:

2) Points limit: Stay at 1850

They are also going to address GreenTide being removed.

2) that is a shame, but so be it.

Losing GT would kill one of the more effective builds in a subpar codex.

 RiTides wrote:
Bummer about 1850, I totally would have been tempted to build something for 1500! At least there's 3 detachment sanity lol

But are detachments made of multiple detachments still only considered one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarthDiggler wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Wait til I post my LVO battle reports using the Chaos Knight and a Legacy of Ruin. muhahahahaha......

Yes that is a very strong combo. Daemon psykers rerolling 6 dice a turn on top of the Knight with a 2++. Ouch!

How does that happen? I mean I see how you get 4+...maybe even 3+

It's a daemon so you grimoire it

 kronk wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

2) Points limit: Stay at 1850

They are also going to address GreenTide being removed.

2) that is a shame, but so be it.

Losing GT would kill one of the more effective builds in a subpar codex.

I hope they keep the green tide in. It was a pain to play against due to moving so many models, but it was fluffy and fun

Because of the abuse I received as Kenpachi, you guys have transformed me into Aizen. Aizen bankai is complete hypnosis and he is a villain. I have become a monster to battle a monster. The monster is not FLG it is something else but realize my intentions are different or are my intentions the same and its part of my complete hypnosis, you decide?

I cant wait for the results because I am going to write articles in a fashion where my reputation might make you believe that I am doing it because I dislike FLG. Which is not true I hate when people make the wrong choice but I am not powerful enough to get you to vote for the right choice or am I?

My complete hypnosis is going to creep you guys out but, remember I am not a bad guy, I am Kenpachi choosing to be Aizen to help you!

If you understood that than you know I am still Kenpachi! If someone figures this out than I will admit that they are a better 40k player than me!

I cant wait for them to post the results!

Wtf are you on about...

Somebody drank too much kool-aid

 Blackmoor wrote:
So we should be voting about nerfing warp spider armies, and instead we are voting on Tau.

Not appreciating the hate, Allan.

 Fxeni wrote:
Somebody drank too much kool-aid

More like smoked too many recreational mushrooms

I think the more ITC discussion and the less attention seeking role playing in this thread, the better.

I'll still pulling for the Ghostkeel, sounds like it's a photo finish!