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GW doesn't make rules telling you what is or is not "legal" to field out of which books. They don't care, they tell you to "forge the narrative".

However, you are exceedingly unlikely to find a group that permits you to mix-and-match between editions or printings of a given book, given the way the rules change between editions.

Yay, i can legally run 3-d ed orks.

In a recent tournament, I ran gunwagons from IA8 and the TO were absolutely fine with it.

If you were to ask the same thing of the 1st ed book, and play to the rules in there, most right thinking, non-anally retentive people would be absolutely fine with it, especially as it seems that GW are, for current edition books.

 r_squared wrote:
In a recent tournament, I ran gunwagons from IA8 and the TO were absolutely fine with it.

If you were to ask the same thing of the 1st ed book, and play to the rules in there, most right thinking, non-anally retentive people would be absolutely fine with it, especially as it seems that GW are, for current edition books.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the book you mentioned the only version of said book? It's not like there's another updated version of "Imperial Armour 8: Raid on Kastorel-Novem" that doesn't have the gunwagon as an option, which would be an apples to apples comparison of what we're talking about here.

So, yeah...if I was a TO that allowed forgeworld, your IA8 gunwagon would be totally legit, but you still wouldn't be able to run the green tide.

Why not? The earlier link said that Games workshop said we can choose if we have 2 versions of the same thing.
Ergo, 2 versions of the book, I can choose which one to use as long as I don't mix up the rules.

If they seem to be OK with this, why aren't you?

IA8 maybe the original book, but all the vehicles and equipment are so outdated that there aren't even hull points. It seems odd that some people are OK with this, but completely, discount perhaps the one truly effective formation that orks have.

 r_squared wrote:
Why not? The earlier link said that Games workshop said we can choose if we have 2 versions of the same thing.
Ergo, 2 versions of the book, I can choose which one to use as long as I don't mix up the rules.

If they seem to be OK with this, why aren't you?

IA8 maybe the original book, but all the vehicles and equipment are so outdated that there aren't even hull points. It seems odd that some people are OK with this, but completely, discount perhaps the one truly effective formation that orks have.

It's not about my personal opinions on the matter. If you and I were to play a game and you wanted to continue using whatever outdated rules you liked, I'd oblige, as I'm first and foremost interested in having a good time. Raining on people's parades isn't conducive to good times...

However, the argument taking place is REALLY about what can be expected at tournaments. If I took my tyranids to a local tournament, I'd get laughed out of the store if I tried to field the Doom of Malan'tai. People in that same store may have no issue playing against it "for good old times sake" in a fun pick-up game, but they're not going to be cool with me fielding a unit that's no longer in the current codex during a tournament. It's not a "what's right" or "what's fair" issue... it's just the EASIEST way to keep everyone, no matter where they come from or who they play with, on the same page when it comes to what's expected of their lists.

If a FLGS would like to change things up to allow some of the abandoned units and rules to be playable during it's tournaments, that's totally their call, but it'd be MUCH MORE of a surprise to a non-local to walk in and be playing against some unit or rule from 3rd edition (for example) than a non-local walking in and only being able to play the most up to date rules. The most current version of everything is what THEY'RE EXPECTING, after all.

As for GW. They're not even making this game with tournaments or our (Americans, maybe the rest of the world) level of rules lawyering in mind. They don't expect anyone to take 40k seriously enough to even look through their book(s) when there's a rules argument. Just roll off for it, right?

So, with that in mind, it can be argued that the green tide is not in fact gone from anywhere, except for in some specific tournaments, and only if the TOs refuse to allow it.

I'd be inclined to take my money elsewhere in that case.

I will totally let my opponents use the green tide.

 r_squared wrote:
Why not? The earlier link said that Games workshop said we can choose if we have 2 versions of the same thing.

Technically, they only said it for that Iron Priest entry.

The Waaagh!-band is the exact same setup as the Ork Warband in the codex. I'm 90% sure that they are just swapping the Waaagh-band and the Green Tide between codex and supplement. I'm putting my money on the Green Tide being in the codex update, whenever that is.

2014 Codex: Orks - Ork Warband
2014 Waaagh! Ghazghkull - Greentide

2016 Waaagh! Ghazghkull - Waaagh-band (formerly Warband)
20?? Codex: Orks - Green Tide

 r_squared wrote:
In a recent tournament, I ran gunwagons from IA8 and the TO were absolutely fine with it.

If you were to ask the same thing of the 1st ed book, and play to the rules in there, most right thinking, non-anally retentive people would be absolutely fine with it, especially as it seems that GW are, for current edition books.

Of those groups mention whos going to throw a big stink about it?

 r_squared wrote:
So, with that in mind, it can be argued that the green tide is not in fact gone from anywhere, except for in some specific tournaments, and only if the TOs refuse to allow it.

I'd be inclined to take my money elsewhere in that case.

Well how convenient for you to just go someplace else, it would be such a shame if everyone didn't have such options.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with the first comment?

The second comment was pretty obvious though. As it happens, living in the UK, I do have a couple of options for tournaments if I want to participate.
So if I feel inclined to do so, but the rules didn't suit me, I'm not forced to participate and can go somewhere else, or just not bother.
I can't speak for how anyone else would deal with it though, that's not my job and I don't have all the answers.
But I would suggest that they try and talk to the TO's?

That is sad. It is such fun army to play and play against.

After two pages Im still confused.
Is the Greentide as a formation gone?
Or has it been simply renamed?
Or is it now Greentide with some extra units added on?

The Greentide formation wasn't included in the updated version of Waaagh! Ghazghkull, so it is gone unless your opponents are happy for you to use an outdated book to build your army.

As far as I know stores generally tell you to use the latest version flgs don't care but GW managers will want you using the newest stuff.

 Orock wrote:
Saw the ghaz 's supliment at my flgs today. Other than the leaked changes like rage for naughts, not needing 10 for HoW, the three flyer formations, and the decurion formations its VERY clearly the direct replacement. Green tide is just gone.

Don't worry. GW will bring "Green Tide" back. But it won't match what you were accustomed to.

Consider the Emprah's Shield Infantry Company. Originally, it was any 3 Platoons (so, 5 + 3x 25 models = 80 total), and you got useful terrain with the ability to call Apocalypse Barrages down on your own head if you got overrun. Now, the ESIC requires 150 basic IG troopers + 4x 5 command and 3 Sentinels, and you can't take Transports. And the bonuses are lame.

GW did it to Guard, so imagine what they'll do to Orks...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
He's pointing out that it's only worth it if taking Ghazgkull for army-wide fearless (and the 2++ on Ghazgkull doesn't hurt) but the only way to get Ghazgkull is via his Formation which runs you about 700 points after upgrades.

Yes, you can take a minute core and a single warbuggy auxiliary on the cheap, but unless you have ghaz, you're wasting your time, much the same as if you're taking a chaplain outside of a gladius, you can, but why would you want to?

And what I'm pointing out is that, unlike the Guard decurion, the Ork one is relatively easy to field. It's also not like this book is lacking in options of things for you to take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Have you read the book?

Have you read what The Boss Is Watching is? It makes them unplayable without Fearless.

The waaagh band which we ALLREADY HAD in the codex is better than waaaagh band in ghazcurion cause it doesn't get ghazcurion special rules listed as "benefits".

Do you see what i'm talking about?

Yes or no:
Can you field the overall detachment sub-1k?

I'm not asking "Will it be good?". I'm asking "Can you field it sub-1k?".

Just to be clear the Goff kill mob and detachment bonus are nearly identical. Taking the formation as you described is nearly the exact same as Orks had previously of just taking grukks kill mob formation before. So Orks didn't really gain anything from doing this but did lose the greentide.

You can take the ork waagh band without the council but ghaz is really the force multiplier for this detachment. However in fairly certain whoever wrote this book probably didn't realize ghaz would have a perms 2++ save, allow his mega armour models in his unit to run and charge every turn and make the entire army fearless.

The bottom line is we can't use the green tide!!! Why?? You ask!!!
Because GW literally removed the greentide from all digital codex.
I no longer have access to it anymore. I can't look up the rules. Now you can steal a PDF copy online of the old rules, however GW considers that illegal!!! Without buying and having those rules you can't play the greentide.

 r_squared wrote:
Ahem...

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/gw-says-choose-your-own-40k-rules.html

This supports the notion that you can legitimately use the green tide, using the rules from the original book.

Only if the WD specifically says you can. Otherwise, I'll take my original Def Rollas, thanks!

 JimOnMars wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Ahem...

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/gw-says-choose-your-own-40k-rules.html

This supports the notion that you can legitimately use the green tide, using the rules from the original book.

Only if the WD specifically says you can.

To be clear that article only specifically allows the priest rules to be used from either version and makes no reference to any rule outside that.

Before people complain about disapearing units, space wolves versions of leman russ tanks, and iron warrior basalisk tanks would like to have a word with you.

Stuff goes away. This is just the first example of a formation to do so, but it is very clearly gone. At least for now, it may make a return like many speculate.

 Orock wrote:
Before people complain about disapearing units, space wolves versions of leman russ tanks, and iron warrior basalisk tanks would like to have a word with you.

Stuff goes away. This is just the first example of a formation to do so, but it is very clearly gone. At least for now, it may make a return like many speculate.

In addition, SM stole veteran Dreads from SW and got more attacks on theirs while never sharing grav anything with SW, and most of the SW formations are equally points heavy as the Ork ones for equally minimal benefits. Counter Charge/Furious charge being hardly game breaking, and you seldom have enough points left over for wolfen packs if you want them to tag along with any speed.

 Orock wrote:
Before people complain about disapearing units, space wolves versions of leman russ tanks, and iron warrior basalisk tanks would like to have a word with you.

Stuff goes away. This is just the first example of a formation to do so, but it is very clearly gone. At least for now, it may make a return like many speculate.

You might not want to play that game with orks

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Why not? The earlier link said that Games workshop said we can choose if we have 2 versions of the same thing.

Technically, they only said it for that Iron Priest entry.

And technically at the exact same time in a different publication they said you have to use the newer version.

Ah GW...

is the green tide formation no longer in the regular codex? or am I remembering a different formation in there?

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Before people complain about disapearing units, space wolves versions of leman russ tanks, and iron warrior basalisk tanks would like to have a word with you.

Stuff goes away. This is just the first example of a formation to do so, but it is very clearly gone. At least for now, it may make a return like many speculate.

You might not want to play that game with orks

have already said goodby to our losses, too many to remember and list

pulsa rokkits
wazdakka
old zogwart
that one warboss who wasent ghazkull nobody remembers
could go on and on.

 Brennonjw wrote:
is the green tide formation no longer in the regular codex? or am I remembering a different formation in there?

Green tide was never in the codex (or any formatio for that matter, they only have a unique detachment). It was in the Ghazghull supplement which just got replaced which is what th eissue is

 Brennonjw wrote:
is the green tide formation no longer in the regular codex? or am I remembering a different formation in there?

it was in the ghaz suppliment, which was just replaced without it inside.