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I genuinely don't see Sisters of the Thorn going anywhere, if only because I foresee them being brought over into the inevitable "Alarielle's Court" faction alongside the Wild Riders, Eternal Guard, and Wildwood Rangers.

They never count Battalions as part of their Warscroll counts--plus the post listing them had it written as "175 Warscrolls plus a selection of formations".

 Kanluwen wrote:
They never count Battalions as part of their Warscroll counts--plus the post listing them had it written as "175 Warscrolls plus a selection of formations".

Adds some wiggle room then. At any rate the situation is really only moderate cuts to the model line, nothing like what happened with Tomb Kings.

The doom of the Bretonnians approaches! But what will finish them off? We're taking all bets!

1,000/1 They somehow overcome all of the above and escape their seemingly inevitable doom.

Wait, there's a unit that is /actually/ called "Deathbringer"? "Deathbringer"? Dear lord, really...? Who thinks of these names, a teenager? At the very least, the model looks good.

I can also see some of the Bret plastics surviving under some new name. I mean the plastic knights are way newer than the old empire Knights so they might just have one human knight type entry.

I doubt morathi will go as she apears in the books as a pivitol character for malorians revival though the spears and swords and shards could be combined into one as there one kit anyway. Dwarfs could combine warriors and longbeards and thunderers as there also one kit. Ungrim could go and slayers/dragon slayers as well (though i hope not). We will see.

 Dawnbringer wrote:
I can also see some of the Bret plastics surviving under some new name. I mean the plastic knights are way newer than the old empire Knights so they might just have one human knight type entry.

Most every country has multiple Bretonnian kits listed as 'No Longer Available', including the plastic knights. I don't see the Bretonnian line surviving.

Grand Alliance Order will combo the range for finecast and metal. Will it add anytime to the game, other than a physical book with a collection of warscrolls and background story?

Skullhammer wrote:
I doubt morathi will go as she apears in the books as a pivitol character for malorians revival though the spears and swords and shards could be combined into one as there one kit anyway. Dwarfs could combine warriors and longbeards and thunderers as there also one kit. Ungrim could go and slayers/dragon slayers as well (though i hope not). We will see.

Morathi, as it stands, is a Finecast kit. She can be a pivotal character for Malerion's revival, but until we actually get Malerion(Shadowkin)...she's irrelevant.
Darkspears, Bleakswords, and Darkshards are likely to be renamed but stick around as three separate profiles.
I also think it possible that Empire State Troops hang around and get broken into their elements(Swordsmen, Spearmen, and Halberdiers).

I highly doubt you'll see Slayers/Dragon Slayers stick around seeing as how there's an entire faction of Slayers now(Fyreslayers).

Finecast is not a reason just by itself for entries to dissapear. Seraphons and Khorn Bloodbound still have finecast models.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Wait, there's a unit that is /actually/ called "Deathbringer"? "Deathbringer"? Dear lord, really...? Who thinks of these names, a teenager? At the very least, the model looks good.

The whole aesthetic of the Bloodbound is over the top savagery. They're not an elegant, sophisticated bunch. Honestly, while a bit unimaginative, it definitely works for this character considering everything I just mentioned.

~Tim?

As well as kits actually going missing, don't forget that some stuff will survive and become 'generified' - so for example I'm expecting DE assassin minis to go, along with Shadowblade's warscroll, but the assassin warscroll and Shadowblade's mini will stay.
Belegar will become A.N. Dwarf Lord, Araloth will become a Lord, etc.

I will be sad to see the Brettonian minis go. They were a faction I always wanted but never bought any of because I knew I couldn't paint well enough to do them justice.

The peasant minis were really nice too.

*sigh* - Guess they have to make way for more boring Stormcast minis though.

 Bottle wrote:

stormboy wrote:
But how many of those 270 are just redundancies - one box that has 2+ builds all listed separately. Or special war scrolls that combine multiple models into a force?

If you can build a box into 2 units it requires 2 warscrolls. Even rebranding of special characters into generic ones requires a warscroll for each. Yeah hopefully the cuts will mostly be felt on old finecast people don't care for - there are also some multiples in the store too like multiple warrior priests that get covered under one warscroll - and then cutting the battalion boxes counts for a few of the cuts too.

Still, it's a little bit worrying as 264 to 175 is a big drop.

A kit that makes two or more different units sometimes requires separate war scrolls but often doesn't. The Carnosaur, for example, can be built as three different characters, who each have their own war scroll. The Skinks have only one scroll, but it has the stat lines on it for the I think four different weapon builds you can give to Skins out of the same kit.

Schmapdi wrote:
I will be sad to see the Brettonian minis go. They were a faction I always wanted but never bought any of because I knew I couldn't paint well enough to do them justice.

The peasant minis were really nice too.

*sigh* - Guess they have to make way for more boring Stormcast minis though.

Did Bretonnians actually sell that well?

My hope is that they get rid of the empire ponies but keep the brettonian Knights box. You only really need that box and a bit of converting skill to make a good looking brettonian army.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I will be sad to see the Brettonian minis go. They were a faction I always wanted but never bought any of because I knew I couldn't paint well enough to do them justice.

The peasant minis were really nice too.

*sigh* - Guess they have to make way for more boring Stormcast minis though.

Did Bretonnians actually sell that well?

No one gave two cents about them until they were gone. Suddenly everyone is mourning the loss.

People couldn't mourn the loss until it happened, of course.

No-one except GW really knows how well Bretonnians sold, or any other line for that matter.

I guess you might get some anecdotal evidence by people reporting how often they see a Bretonnian army in the wild.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I will be sad to see the Brettonian minis go. They were a faction I always wanted but never bought any of because I knew I couldn't paint well enough to do them justice.

The peasant minis were really nice too.

*sigh* - Guess they have to make way for more boring Stormcast minis though.

Did Bretonnians actually sell that well?

No, but they put up a parking lot.

Considering Brets are now on their third edition change with no new books or releases, I don't think it's shocking that they haven't been selling that well.

It's the typical GW self fulfilling prophecy bs.

I remember back in 5th when they were part of the starter, and massively overpowered. Darn wedges of cheese, everyone was fielding them.

Shame to see them fallen on hard times though, there was a lot of fun/flavor to be had with them, and some nice models.

I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

AOS might actually be a good thing for them then. Leave the peasants to the other factions. Do they need to be anything but 2-4 flavors of mounted knights and a character or three? Obviously as a full, old style army, this makes a lopsided list. But as part of the forces of Order? Should fit.

Kinda like the ally-sized codexes in 40k (harlequins etc) While you technically could field them solo, they work best when tacked on to another, more robust, army. Want some heavy cav to add you your force? Just take a unit of brets.

Hmph. OT but some of us like the peasants!

It doesn't bode well for AoS as a whole then, if GW is binning stuff that doesn't sell well.

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

I've heard similar arguments from other people and never really understood that logic. Like many armies (which actually got the treatment) Brettonia would've greatly benefited from plastics (Grail Knights, Questing Knights, General/ BSB, mounted Yeoman, Enchantress foot/ mounted, character on gryphon, combo catapult/ trebuchet, Grail Relique) PLUS they easily could've flushed out other parts of the faction like Peasant HQ's, religious nut jobs (always thought zealots were a better fit in Brettonia rather than the empire), casting units, and disgraced Knights on foot looking for a noble death (human slayers anyone?). Yeah, there was a lot they could've done.

WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 114 (ENGLISH) 4
WARHAMMER VISIONS 27 (ENGLISH) WH: Visions 12
GRAND ALLIANCE: ORDER (FRENCH) Book (SB) 35
GRAND ALLIANCE: ORDER (ENGLISH) Book (SB) 35
EXALTED DEATHBRINGER WITH IMPALING SPEAR 30
SLAUGHTERPRIEST WITH HACKBLADE Plastic Clam 30
ASPIRING DEATHBRINGER WITH GOREAXE Plastic Clam 30
HH: THE SEVENTH SERPENT (HB) Other Book 24
WZ FENRIS:CURSE OF THE WULFEN (HB NOVEL) 24



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Wait, there's a unit that is /actually/ called "Deathbringer"? "Deathbringer"? Dear lord, really...? Who thinks of these names, a teenager? At the very least, the model looks good.

This is GW we're talking about... "Space Wolves". Space.... wolves. "Deathwatch Overkill". "Wulfen Murderpack". even "Devastator Squad" sounds like it's from a terrible Saturday morning cartoon, but everyone's just kind of used to how dumb GW's names for everything are.

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

Brettonians could be turned into a more varied but still "realistic" and coherent force by basing them on Crusader armies. This would give them a core of mounted knights in heraldic costume, supported by foot sergeants with crossbows and spears, and light cavalry Turcopoles. The peasants could be retained as camp followers. Bunng in some sort of magic and religious icons based on Sigmarism and I reckon there's a pretty reasonable AoS concept.

 godswildcard wrote:
I've heard similar arguments from other people and never really understood that logic. Like many armies (which actually got the treatment) Brettonia would've greatly benefited from plastics (Grail Knights, Questing Knights, General/ BSB, mounted Yeoman, Enchantress foot/ mounted, character on gryphon, combo catapult/ trebuchet, Grail Relique) PLUS they easily could've flushed out other parts of the faction like Peasant HQ's, religious nut jobs (always thought zealots were a better fit in Brettonia rather than the empire), casting units, and disgraced Knights on foot looking for a noble death (human slayers anyone?). Yeah, there was a lot they could've done.

since we don't know the accounting books, one can only assume that they didn't want to invest the millions of bucks into retooling an army for a game system that was dying and they planned to replace anyway. Too many armies, too many skus. Whatever the reason, it's a more informed one than we can give, as GW keeps making money and everyone here keeps buying their stuff so they're doing something right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:
GRAND ALLIANCE: ORDER (ENGLISH) Book (SB) 35

If this is anywhere near the quality and size of the Grand Alliance Chaos book, this is a hell of a (GW) deal.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Chikout wrote:
I think the Brettonian problem was that the studio didn't know what to do with the army. A plastic grail knights and questing knights box would have been great, but what else would they add. The thing about Brettonians is that they are basically lots of Knights. Knights on foot doesn't really make sense. More peasents would just just dilute the essence of the army. I hope they take the time to make a new human faction loosely inspired by Bretonnia but with a bit more creative freedom. AOS let them make slayers ride monsters after all.

Brettonians could be turned into a more varied but still "realistic" and coherent force by basing them on Crusader armies. This would give them a core of mounted knights in heraldic costume, supported by foot sergeants with crossbows and spears, and light cavalry Turcopoles. The peasants could be retained as camp followers. Bunng in some sort of magic and religious icons based on Sigmarism and I reckon there's a pretty reasonable AoS concept.

If I had to ballpark it, you're not going to see anything beyond the Knights of the Realm/ Errant hanging around.

I would expect Free People(a confirmed faction for the Order book and a keyword applying to both The Empire and Bretonnians) to consist of the following:
Knightly Lord or some other silly name for a rejigged Empire Captain as the Empire General box is one of the few plastic Hero boxed sets that exist, and what's more it's one of the few where there's no built-in scenery bits that would pose an issue for rebasing them. This would give you a couple of different profiles(Banner Bearer would be its own, General mounted on Imperial Griffon would be its own, mounted on horse would be its own, etc)
Empire State Troops get split into 3 unit choices(Spearmen, Halberdiers, Swordsmen) with each having its own unique set of rules like the Dark Elf Spearmen, Crossbowmen, and Swordsmen do.
Handgunners
Crossbowmen
Bretonnian Knights of the Realm and Knights Errant get added in to replace the long past its prime Empire Knight kit
Demigryph Knights
Archers/Huntsmen become a single profile of "Scouts"
Markus Wulfhart becomes a "Huntsman"
Pegasus Knights


We know Battle Mages are to be their own faction, and I'm going to predict this:
Amber Battle Wizard on Imperial Griffon
Amber Battle Wizard
Bright Wizard
Amethyst Wizard
White Wizard
Gold Wizard
Grey Wizard
Jade Wizard
Heavens Wizard
Luminark of Hysh
Celestial Hurricanum

Devoted of Sigmar(another faction we've had namedropped from the leak):
Witch Hunter
Grand Priest of Sigmar(Volkmar the Grim rebadged)
War Altar of Sigmar
Crazed Mob(Flagellants)
Priest of Sigmar(encompasses all the existing Warrior Priest models)

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Brettonians could be turned into a more varied but still "realistic" and coherent force by basing them on Crusader armies. This would give them a core of mounted knights in heraldic costume, supported by foot sergeants with crossbows and spears, and light cavalry Turcopoles. The peasants could be retained as camp followers. Bunng in some sort of magic and religious icons based on Sigmarism and I reckon there's a pretty reasonable AoS concept.

And, of course, it's a fantasy setting... so you're not limited to putting the knights on just horses...