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They've already stated that the price is what it is on the elemental a box. While I'd like it for less I don't think it will happen.

Also not thrilled at the dice, hopefully there's a basic dice bundle later. Might have to hit RITides up to customize some of my MODcubes.

 Myrthe wrote:
I agree that the "forget your skills" and "loose your equipment" seems lame. A progressive toughness increase in the adversaries rather than a game-to-game neutering of the players is much better, IMO. Give the monsters levels that coincide with player levels and have powerful equipment contribute to the total level score to balance things out.

I thought that the reason the roaming monsters came with multiple cards was because they had a second level they could be used at to make them more suitable for leveled up heroes?

 Alpharius wrote:
Any thoughts on if CMON will react to the [alleged] disappointment with the Elementals Box and offer something a bit more...attractive with the next add-on?

How about the option to buy the custom dice that should have been thrown in as a Stretch Goal??

As was done in every single Zombicide before. I got a dozen bonus dice with Z2, and another dozen bonus dice with Z3. BP would have given me 6 more, but I didn't back it.

And we're getting *none* with MD?

Yeah, this is CMoN just fething milking the backers on top of the $120 buy-in.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
So you find an uber-sword and lose it by the next dungeon, as well as forgetting any abilities you've learned until a certain point in the current quest, at which point you remember "oh yeah, I know this awesome move, I should probably do it".

Sounds weird...

Voltron Rules in effect! Like how each episode they farted around before getting into their lions before farting around until they form Voltron, then farting around even more before they finally call down the sword and stomp whatever monster they were fighting.

Not a bad analogy - and I can freely admit to having that bother me even as a kid!

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Myrthe wrote:
I agree that the "forget your skills" and "loose your equipment" seems lame. A progressive toughness increase in the adversaries rather than a game-to-game neutering of the players is much better, IMO. Give the monsters levels that coincide with player levels and have powerful equipment contribute to the total level score to balance things out.

I thought that the reason the roaming monsters came with multiple cards was because they had a second level they could be used at to make them more suitable for leveled up heroes?

I think that might just be for the number of players in the game.

1 -3, use level A.

4 - 6, use level B.

But I could, of course, be wrong!

Oh yeah, and a dice add-on?

Yawn!

 Nostromodamus wrote:
So you find an uber-sword and lose it by the next dungeon, as well as forgetting any abilities you've learned until a certain point in the current quest, at which point you remember "oh yeah, I know this awesome move, I should probably do it"..

Sounds like those lazy plotlines where, after the heroes save the world in the previous story arc, we next see them all poor and in need of cash in the next episode.

I'm sure fans will find some way of toughening up the monsters. In zombicide, you have Survivors stronger than others, so can modify the zombie deck accordingly. With MD, you can use the more difficult 4-5 player monster against a 3-player party.

Unless you have an actual campaign (eg. Descent or HeroQuest), it's tough to design a game system that scales with the number of players *and* their "power levels". D&D does this with modules that tell you what levels should be playing it. Maybe CMON should have half the scenarios be standalone, and the other from a campaign?? Or CMON could release campaigns as a separate product or free download, possibly from another fan design competition. (EDIT: I'm defining campaign as we use it, not as how CMON is using it.)

I've tried staying active in the KS Comments section today, hoping to glean some more gameplay info from it but...

...yeah, no more!

I'm done!

It has to be one of the worst formats for...well, getting anything useful at all...that I've ever seen.

And it is filled to the brim with people spamming like hell, possibly in an effort to be noticed by CMON and...elevated somehow? Maybe get made into a miniature?

I think they did that before - and now we're all going to have to pay the price!

Almost at $1.3M, so hopefully some more interesting stretch goals soon...

It reminds me of playing the old D&D adventures from SSI on the PC way back in the day. You saved the kingdom but the next game starts and for some reason you end up passed out and wake up with all your items gone and have to start over.

 Alpharius wrote:
I've tried staying active in the KS Comments section today, hoping to glean some more gameplay info from it but...

...yeah, no more!

I'm done!

It has to be one of the worst formats for...well, getting anything useful at all...that I've ever seen.

And it is filled to the brim with people spamming like hell, possibly in an effort to be noticed by CMON and...elevated somehow? Maybe get made into a miniature?

I think they did that before - and now we're all going to have to pay the price!

One of those constantly spamming is the one who did the same in the Walking Dead All Out War Kickstarter and was rewarded for it with a zombie sculpted after him in the game. He is trying exactly the same thing this time around.

This campaigns Brian Blessed appears to be a Unicorn.

Fortunately, CMoN should have already finalized all of the stuff, so fan homages shouldn't be in play. But it is stupid, and I would hope CMoN can shut it down faster than the insistence on the Elementals.

Hmmm... well I will try to chime in with some constructive criticism.

First, I am a zombicide super fan, and have pledged for several copies of all GG/CMON games in the series or their similar games. I love the speed and ease of play, the gorgeous minis, art, etc. The best part is solo or coop play.

Zombicide was great, black plague was better. I was super excited for this as a dungeon crawl holds a lot of potential (and suggested cross compatability).

I liked the single pledge, and the price isn't bad considering there are a few very large figures. I was not a fan of the art, as it isnt their zombicide art. It is a copy of their wrath of kings art, which i am not a fan of - but can live with. However the stretch goals have practically stalled this campaign. I didn't mind the large gaps between goals, assuming they only had a limited amount and planned on raising a large sum of cash. However, many of the goals were more of the same, and there weren't many hero unlocks or things to spur large interest.

I think they would have done better to give a boss, minions, and cards as a single goal... maybe just with a higher dollar value between goals then. Otherwise folks see minute goals, sit and wait to see what else will be unlocked.

I was super excited but the campaign has slowed to a crawl. This is fixable! Bigger or better stretch goals please! More interesting add ons! How about an add on that gives cards to use all black plague heroes and zombie types? I would pay for that, and I'm sure others would too. A large dragon add on? You know all would pledge for that.

They have confirmed no dragons this campaign but sounds like you will have your wish to some degree with Black Plague comparability addon.

 455_PWR wrote:
I was super excited but the campaign has slowed to a crawl. This is fixable! Bigger or better stretch goals please! More interesting add ons! How about an add on that gives cards to use all black plague heroes and zombie types? I would pay for that, and I'm sure others would too. A large dragon add on? You know all would pledge for that.

CMoN has already ruled out Dragons, which is disappointing, because there is a LOT of money to be made selling Dragons as add-ons, even for those who won't ever play your game. It's like they don't understand Fantasy gaming...

The BP crossover is a given, they just haven't announced it. The thing is, with the way they bungled the dice, you might have to pay an extra $25 to get the BP crossover content.

The art has not struck me well either, and as 455 pointed out it is WOK art style, which I am not a fan of either. I'm still in because I know the value will eventually come, but I find myself thinking of limited hobby funds and saying "just wait for ZBP2".

 Alpharius wrote:

And it is filled to the brim with people spamming like hell, possibly in an effort to be noticed by CMON and...elevated somehow? Maybe get made into a miniature?
I think they did that before - and now we're all going to have to pay the price!

I think that was Mantic and TWD?

 Azazelx wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

And it is filled to the brim with people spamming like hell, possibly in an effort to be noticed by CMON and...elevated somehow? Maybe get made into a miniature?
I think they did that before - and now we're all going to have to pay the price!

I think that was Mantic and TWD?

CMoN has succumb to fanservice spam.

AQ:I had 'Sarya', who was a piece of random art used to sell add-ons which people wanted a hero of.

AQ;Masmorra had a pervert who kept spamming for sewers and sewer jacks, so the last stretch was a 'sewer' epic tile.

But this has become the norm in almost all KS it seems. People literally re-spam the same 'Make this!' over and over and over. What people don't realize is they want fanservice greymarket IP, but then don't want exclusives. The only reason we have Batman, Maleficant, Voldemort and Sheldon Cooper is because CMoN doesn't 'sell' them. They are free exclusives so it makes it harder to sue about.

I am kinda happy about the lack of blatant pop culture characters, and people who hate exclusives should be happy as most add-ons in recent campaigns seem to lack bundled exclusives to force the sale. If the Elementals box had an exclusive attached, people would be buying it regardless. So it shows exclusives do sell add-ons.

Also: I think the major reason we are not seeing dragons is because that is the logical IP for the expansion. Massive Darkness: Dragonwrath or something. They can fill it with kobolds, lizarmen, Snakemen, Dragonborn and so on and all the wandering monsters can be dragon/lizard themed. (Wyvern, Chimera, Dinosaur, Dragons, Wyrm, Snake, Basilisk, And so on) So I think they are intentionally keeping that genie in the bottle for now.

OK, I'm probably the only one who thinks this, but...

I pledged on this at the lowest level. Luckily for me this was the only level. I said I would not buy expansions or add-ons, because money is tight, but I really want this game--no, this is the game I wanted ZBP to be. I pledged on the the base game as first shown. I knew they'd throw in some stuff. i knew at some point my will would be tested. But if the total stalled where it it now it's hard not to see the value or that the campaign was successful. (Unless you keep comparing it to Zombicide.)

I think the guys at Guillotine were conservative. I don't see the same grand vision that Black Plague or the other Zombicide campaigns had out of the gate. And I'd rather they not cobble something together if they didn't have it planned before hand. It may be that this game was a cautious dip the toe in the dungeon crawl board game. They might not have been sure if there was any room left especially since BP ate a bunch of money in that market. The weak SG might be that GG and CMoN might not have a lot up their sleeve. It would be hard for me to think they had really cool stuff they were holding back until the $3M mark. No expansion out of the gate and small SGs stretched out. Seems they were worried MD might not ride on the coat tails of Zombicide.

Than again it could be other reasons for the perceived weak SGs.

Iain.

I've been dying for some good troglodyte minis in this type of format.

However, when I say "troglodyte" I'm referring to gangly lizards that smell bad... not Kronk.

I thought that, technically, they didn't actually rule out dragons here.

At least not officially!

nkelsch wrote:
But this has become the norm in almost all KS it seems. People literally re-spam the same 'Make this!' over and over and over.

I am kinda happy about the lack of blatant pop culture characters, and people who hate exclusives should be happy as most add-ons in recent campaigns seem to lack bundled exclusives to force the sale. If the Elementals box had an exclusive attached, people would be buying it regardless. So it shows exclusives do sell add-ons.

Also: I think the major reason we are not seeing dragons is because that is the logical IP for the expansion. Massive Darkness: Dragonwrath or something. They can fill it with kobolds, lizarmen, Snakemen, Dragonborn and so on and all the wandering monsters can be dragon/lizard themed. (Wyvern, Chimera, Dinosaur, Dragons, Wyrm, Snake, Basilisk, And so on) So I think they are intentionally keeping that genie in the bottle for now.

Yes. We had this in the SDE:Legends KS; it was annoying.

I am glad there won't be stupid pop culture items, which become dated very quickly.

So they're saving Dragons for MD2? Awesome. Not.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
But this has become the norm in almost all KS it seems. People literally re-spam the same 'Make this!' over and over and over.

I am kinda happy about the lack of blatant pop culture characters, and people who hate exclusives should be happy as most add-ons in recent campaigns seem to lack bundled exclusives to force the sale. If the Elementals box had an exclusive attached, people would be buying it regardless. So it shows exclusives do sell add-ons.

Also: I think the major reason we are not seeing dragons is because that is the logical IP for the expansion. Massive Darkness: Dragonwrath or something. They can fill it with kobolds, lizarmen, Snakemen, Dragonborn and so on and all the wandering monsters can be dragon/lizard themed. (Wyvern, Chimera, Dinosaur, Dragons, Wyrm, Snake, Basilisk, And so on) So I think they are intentionally keeping that genie in the bottle for now.

Yes. We had this in the SDE:Legends KS; it was annoying.

I am glad there won't be stupid pop culture items, which become dated very quickly.

So they're saving Dragons for MD2? Awesome. Not.

I think it would be better for CMoN if they had a lizard themed expansion rather than wait for MD2. Money now is worth more than money later. Making this campaign as big and successful as possible is the best way to ensure a sequel does well and it's not like they'll run out of stuff from the monstrous compendium to put in sequels to the game anytime soon.

I'm not fond of games using specialty dice, other than Herscape and Heroquest, so I wasn't thrilled to see this game using them, but two things just occured to while reading up on them. There is a hard cap of rolling three of any type. That is a big departure from Zombicide. Secondly, the 12 dice set for $12 is cheaper than the Zombicide dice have been (6 for $10), at least per die.

Also, since the dice are color coded we won't be getting a dozen different colored sets to choose from. That's the reasoning behind the marble and frost, because they can't change the colors.

The difference being that Zombicide, you can substitute ordinary d6s for the Zombicide dice. For MD, I think you basically need to use the custom dice.

Also, they absolutely can change the colors, if they use colored ink. They could do white dice with red / yellow / green / blue ink. Or black dice. Or grey dice. Or clear dice. As long as the ink is of the appropriate color.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The difference being that Zombicide, you can substitute ordinary d6s for the Zombicide dice. For MD, I think you basically need to use the custom dice.

You are correct.

My point was the zombicide dice had to be cheaper to produce, only having a single custom side, but cost twice as much, and they weren't as valuable since, yes, you could just use regular dice instead.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Also, they absolutely can change the colors, if they use colored ink. They could do white dice with red / yellow / green / blue ink. Or black dice. Or grey dice. Or clear dice. As long as the ink is of the appropriate color.

I wouldn't count on that, or even think it's a good idea. Colored specialty dice is about as dumbed down as you can get for a game. Dice of other colors is a completely different approach, they didn't take.

I'll be happy if they at least offer translucent dice. I don't care for the Frost or Marble myself. With 24 more days to go, I'm hoping they'll toss in a second set as freebie along the way.

The Zombicide dice use unique faces on all 6 sides:

I assume the per-dice price is higher, due to the lower volume sold.

While you might not like alternate dice, producing color on white (or whatever) is no more difficult than white (or whatever) on color. It is totally feasible.

Different coloured dice probably isn't something they will do since the dice are specifically colour coded in game - red and yellow for different strength hits, blue for defence.

Once they go into custom colour territory, it starts getting confusing in game. Different finishes like the marble and frosted dice can be done while keeping the colour coding.

Being color-coded does NOT preclude different colored dice.

I can have a set of white dice as follows:
- White dice with Red Swords (replaces red dice w/ white swords)
- White dice with Yellow Swords (replaces yellow dice w/ white swords)
- White dice with Green Shields (replaces green dice w/ white shields)
- White dice with Blue Shields (replaces blue dice w/ white shields)

Then a black set. Then a clear set.

Same color coding, and there is no reason to be confused.

It's not a matter of being feasible, it's a matter of it not really being a good idea. The color of the ink is no where near as easily instantly recognizable as the color of the dice from across a table.

Could you hand me 3 red dice ?
I don't see any red dice.
Those right there.
Those dice are White dude.
Yeah, but they have red ink !!

The entire point of extra dice is so that we each have our own dice, so we're not passing one set across the table. Nubs can use the original dice. I'll use the white dice. It's OK, I can handle it.

I think they can leave the extra custom dice like those for a third party because there won't be enough call for them. I just want to see more of the basic dice so there's no pass the dice please going on.

As for Zombicide dice, I have a ton of the red basic dice, but we have also added all the black basic dice from my multiple copies of Sedition Wars. We have enough for each of us to have 12+ dice in a 4 person game. We've ever only needed to utilize that on a hand full of occasions. We've never used the custom zombicide dice as I could see arguments over is the skull a 1 or a 6 .


Also the slow pace really isn't helping this project be massive. Somethings got to get moving shortly or this will be a really long month.

 Theophony wrote:



Also the slow pace really isn't helping this project be massive. Somethings got to get moving shortly or this will be a really long month.

Agreed. The troglodyte boss should get unlocked today and then hopefully CMoN reveals better stretch goals and add on otherwise the next 3 weeks are going to be very dull for the campaign.