Infernal Tetrad Tactics

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**labmouse42**

Have you found any problems with the maneuverability of the exalted flamers, since all their weapons are 'heavy'?

**gameandwatch**

labmouse42 wrote:
Have you found any problems with the maneuverability of the exalted flamers, since all their weapons are 'heavy'?

Yeah, it is a real problem... I wish they could take discs, but that would probably be WAY too good. At least most of the units you go after in an army dont have the maneuverability to escape the exalted flamers provided you are a little brave with them in deepstrike.

What I have liked about them though, is though they only snap shot in the initial DS, with the corruption bonus on objectives that the demon decurion has, if you just throw them onto objectives, they become a real problem to dislodge. Shoot at them from afar and they still hold the objective. Come close to them and they throw out some seriously dangerous ranged firepower. I wish they at least had relentless or access to slow and purposeful or something, but oh well.

I just find that what really helps the tetrad is when the rest of your army is good for mealstrom and provides excellent area denial, as this gives the enemy few options as to where they should send their army. As well, if facing an assault army or an army requiring close range (like marine bikes, or droppods, etc) you could always just deploy the exalted flamers, wait for them to arrive, and blast away.

Ugg I wish regular flamers were still Ap3 or less, but what can ya do.

Also, if the mission has less objectives, I tend to join the exalted flamers to the regular flamers, this makes them even harder to dislodge, allows for some rules shenanigans, and the flamers can still dance around and be in range of things while still attached to the exalted flamers, while the exalted stand still.

**rabidguineapig**

@gameandwatch I've been using the Robes for a bit now and haven't had any problems. Tbh I think I've had to take maybe 2 ld tests and that was only when I didn't get cursed earth or the +1 invul warlord trait. It's worth having the better base invul especially if you can get it to a 2++ and just glide across the board unscathed.

**jy2**

The Impossible Robes is pretty boss, especially if you get +1 Inv from either Warlord Traits, Psychic Powers or the Warpstorm. I've only failed my LD test once, and that was when I was playing against a DE/Eldar/Harlequin army with LD-reduction shenanigans (-5 to LD!!!). Other than that, take Fatey if you don't feel comfortable without re-rolls. Fatey is still an outstanding force-multiplier for any Daemon list.

**labmouse42**

gameandwatch wrote:
Didn't think of the lash on the slaanesh prince with iron arm...that sounds fun!

It's AP-, so it can have limited function. Marines still still get their 3+ save, meaning 6 wounds will kill 2 of them.

That said --- it's still funny to see someone's expression when you say.
"OK, I'm taking 2d6 shots at your knight, hitting on 2's and rerolling 1s. Oh, and it's STR 10"

gameandwatch wrote:
I am soooo nervous about the impossible robe on the tzeentch prince, havent tried it...but I shall give it a go.

As mentioned earlier, the prince takes so few wounds that it very rarely pops. I've played the tetrad in over 20 games now and only had it pop once.

**Captyn_Bob**

~~Prince has smash, all attacks will be ap2~~

**Fhionnuisce**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Prince has smash, all attacks will be ap2

No, all close combat attacks are ap2. Lash is a ranged attack.

**Galef**

Fhionnuisce wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Prince has smash, all attacks will be ap2

No, all close combat attacks are ap2. Lash is a ranged attack.

Same goes for Rending from 'Daemon of Slaanesh'. Sadly only applies to CC attacks

**Nidzrule!**

What sort of meta list counters the Infernal Tetrad / flying circuses in general?

Thunderwolf deathstar or bike deathstars probably dont do super against this sort of list, my opinion is that it is probably a skill matchup.

Shooty deathstars though like, farsight bomb or wraithstars or centstar, will probably be advantaged against this sort of list?

**labmouse42**

Nidzrule! wrote:
What sort of meta list counters the Infernal Tetrad / flying circuses in general?

Thunderwolf deathstar or bike deathstars probably dont do super against this sort of list, my opinion is that it is probably a skill matchup.

Shooty deathstars though like, farsight bomb or wraithstars or centstar, will probably be advantaged against this sort of list?

Stomps.
Over half of my lost princes have been from getting stomped out of existence by stormsurges or wraithknights.
D weapons are also rough, but with most tourneys doing "D Lite" with rolls of a 6 only doing 3 wounds, it's not as bad. I'm more scared of the stomps from the WK than it's D sword.

Edit :
If stomps were changed so they could not effect MCs, the Tetrad would jump from a good list to a tier 1 list IMHO. That is what's holding them back.

**blackmage**

anytime i see tetrad lists i see so few CW, ok most powers are1-2 cw only, but sometimes you need summon and 7 dices out of 9 are burned.... you sure tetrad can last long with just cursed earth?
@labmouse you talked about 50 demonettes+herald with tetrad but how many units you assume enter 2nd turn? you have no ways to manipulate reserves so if they dont come or come just 1 is useless, any army list have firepower enough to wipe out 10 T3 ts 5++ models, also with grimorie on.
Usually i play old style flying circus (kinda baraijmovic LVO 2015 list) and also with 14+d6 WC sometimes i fall short of dices, i cant imagine with only 9+d6.

**gameandwatch**

labmouse42 wrote:
Nidzrule! wrote:
What sort of meta list counters the Infernal Tetrad / flying circuses in general?

Thunderwolf deathstar or bike deathstars probably dont do super against this sort of list, my opinion is that it is probably a skill matchup.

Shooty deathstars though like, farsight bomb or wraithstars or centstar, will probably be advantaged against this sort of list?
Stomps.
Over half of my lost princes have been from getting stomped out of existence by stormsurges or wraithknights.
D weapons are also rough, but with most tourneys doing "D Lite" with rolls of a 6 only doing 3 wounds, it's not as bad. I'm more scared of the stomps from the WK than it's D sword.

Edit :
If stomps were changed so they could not effect MCs, the Tetrad would jump from a good list to a tier 1 list IMHO. That is what's holding them back.

Ironically, I have never actually had a problem with stomps. If I go after a wraithknight or a surge in combat, I only ever go after them with the best combat option, or overwhelming force. Usually I find the khorne prince with skullreaver to be more than enough for a wraithknight, surge(s) I usually double team with the balesword prince and the khorne prince, but a baleprince will kill a surge fairly quickly. If a balesword prince has iron arm on, he will also take care of a wraithknight very quickly.

This is of course, if you are not charging through cover...as even flying...the no grenades thing sucks hahaha.

**labmouse42**

blackmage wrote:
you sure tetrad can last long with just cursed earth?

Absolutely. What makes it work are the greaters you can roll. Cursed earth + rerolling failed saves = 75% invuln. At this point I've played over 20 games with the Tetrad and I'm really getting a feel for them.

blackmage wrote:
@labmouse you talked about 50 demonettes+herald with tetrad but how many units you assume enter 2nd turn? you have no ways to manipulate reserves so if they dont come or come just 1 is useless, any army list have firepower enough to wipe out 10 T3 ts 5++ models, also with grimorie on.

You should get 3 of the squads in. If you are really worried, you can grab an instrument or two to help this.

That makes it work is that it's a 'damned if you do' and 'damned if you dont' concept. Sure, you might shoot at the daemonettes, but then the Tetrad is going to slam into you. You might shoot at the tetrad, but then getting assaulted by 30 daemonettes is extremely bad.

You can also bubble wrap your tetrad from any GMCs that can stomp you out of existance. GMCs are actually quite scared of daemonettes who can rend them down through volume of attacks.

blackmage wrote:
Usually i play old style flying circus (kinda baraijmovic LVO 2015 list) and also with 14+d6 WC sometimes i fall short of dices, i cant imagine with only 9+d6.

You have to use powers that just have 1 warp charge to cast -- 2 tops. The tetrad is to busy shrieking and buffing to spend powers on summoning in most cases.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gameandwatch wrote:
This is of course, if you are not charging through cover...as even flying...the no grenades thing sucks hahaha.

The Nurgle prince has defensive grenades.

He can fling poo too!

**gameandwatch**

gameandwatch wrote:
This is of course, if you are not charging through cover...as even flying...the no grenades thing sucks hahaha.
The Nurgle prince has defensive grenades.
He can fling poo too!

**gameandwatch**

So this is the adjusted 1850 list Ill probably run in my next game:

Army of Unreason detachment

Warpflame host
Herald of tzeentch, disk of tzeench, mastery level 1, exalted reward (grimoire)
x6 exalted flamers of tzeentch
x3 flamers of tzeentch
x3 flamers of tzeentch
x3 flamers of tzeentch

Demon flock
x5 chaos furies, mark of tzeentch

Demon Tetrad
Demon prince, mark of khorne, flight, skullreaver, lesser reward (axe of khorne), x2 greater reward (roll)

Demon prince, mark of slaanesh, flight, greater reward (lash of despair), mastery level 3

Demon prince, mark of nurgle, flight, x2 greater reward(roll and balesword), mastery level 3

Demon prince, mark of tzeentch, flight, lesser reward (staff of change), mastery level 3, impossible robe

**Captyn_Bob**

Can't have grimoire and impossible robe on the same guy :(

**Galef**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Can't have grimoire and impossible robe on the same guy :(

Even if you could, there isn't a good unit to use it on, especially since no FW re-roll could really cripple one of the Princes.

**gameandwatch**

I I misread the hellforged artifact entry, thanks for the catch BACK ONTO THE HERALD IT GOES!!!

Most of the time, I am willing to take the risk on the princes...now realizing I didn't give them armor...but they would mostly be jinking anyways...I dunno.

Do you guys think armor is worth the price? Giving them 3+ saves, but making them now vulnerable to grav?

**jy2**

gameandwatch wrote:
I I misread the hellforged artifact entry, thanks for the catch BACK ONTO THE HERALD IT GOES!!!

Most of the time, I am willing to take the risk on the princes...now realizing I didn't give them armor...but they would mostly be jinking anyways...I dunno.

Do you guys think armor is worth the price? Giving them 3+ saves, but making them now vulnerable to grav?

Depends on your meta. 3+ is useful against Tau and Eldar, but a liability against Grav-happy marine armies. It really depends on which you see more in your meta.

**gameandwatch**

jy2 wrote:
gameandwatch wrote:
I I misread the hellforged artifact entry, thanks for the catch BACK ONTO THE HERALD IT GOES!!!

Most of the time, I am willing to take the risk on the princes...now realizing I didn't give them armor...but they would mostly be jinking anyways...I dunno.

Do you guys think armor is worth the price? Giving them 3+ saves, but making them now vulnerable to grav?

Depends on your meta. 3+ is useful against Tau and Eldar, but a liability against Grav-happy marine armies. It really depends on which you see more in your meta.

I guess I meant more from a purely TAC standpoint. Obviously with impossible robe, the tzeentch one doesnt need it. I just don't know where Id find the points for it.

Also, per where to target the grimoire, it is great to have if you roll the tzeentch warlord trait that gives +1 to invuls. Success means 2++ for anyone, and fail means back to the stock 5++.

**labmouse42**

jy2 wrote:
Depends on your meta. 3+ is useful against Tau and Eldar, but a liability against Grav-happy marine armies. It really depends on which you see more in your meta.

+1 to this.

Where I play, 3/4 of my opponents are either daemons, eldar or tau -- so I bring them.

**jy2**

In my area, Tau, Eldar and Grav are all prevalent tournament builds. But at least I have the Void Shield Generator that protects my DP's from Grav, at least initially.

Thus, I tend to take the 3+ if I can afford it.

**RabbitMaster**

Ok guys, a few days ago I tried a "Pacific Rim" army list:

Spoiler:

Strategy is simple : your giant robots and creatures go towards the ennemy, punching him in the face. And sometimes you throw stuff at him too.

I faced a BA/SM/Inq player with the following:

Spoiler:

Here's the battle:

Spoiler:

It's a nice army, really fun to play. Real good punch in close combat. Also it's not a time consumming army so no fear of not seeing the end of the game.
Obviously the big drawback is having only 6 models that kinda have to always go towards the ennemy. So grabbing objectives is difficult but with the new ITC missions you can get a lot of "kill a unit" or "be in the opponent deployment zone".

My lessons from the game:
- Nurgle prince really needs that balesword. It's stupid to say, I knew it before the game, but it's true. Unless there is litteraly no multi-wound models or antyhing T6+, this guys really needs the weapon to be effective in close combat. It synergize so well with the tetrad : reroll 1 to hit, then reroll to wounds thanks to poison and the +1S from the tetrad.
- My knights need to learn how to D. Seems like im cursed but i can count on one hand the number of 6 I ever made with D weapons or stomps.
- Keeping the rewards is better than keeping the psychic levels. When building this list, you can't fully kite out the princes. And the only option to free up some points is either to remove some mastery levels or some rewards. If I had sacrificed a few rewards instead of a few mastery levels, my princes would have been dead.
- Knights are a good fire magnet to protect the princes. It's awesome to get the opponent more afraid of something than the princes, gives them real freedom to rampage through his ranks.

**gigasnail**

...i like this list.

**gameandwatch**

First, "Gigasnail", probably the best name I have heard in a long time hahaha!

Second, sounds like a fun list, and interesting comment about the gifts...that is something to consider.

**blackmage**

i saw the battle report against Tau, wonder if d thirster is really so useful, i mean in general matchup ,or better use things like be'lakor. of course if you know you are going aagainst a Tau you wont bring in be'lakor , but when you dont know what you will face like in tournament? i love D thirster i played lot of times and never disappointed me but i m not sure it will 100% fit in tetrad. i dont think i can support it properly.

**labmouse42**

RabbitMaster wrote:
#Infernal Tetrad:
-DP of T (warlord)
Psyker lvl3, Robe, 2xGreater
-DP of S
Psyker lvl3, Armor, 2xGreater
-DP of K
Armor of Scorn, 2xGreater, 1xLesser
-DP of N
2xGreater (yeah no armor, had to find points somewhere)

#Forsworn Detachment:
-Renegade Knight
-Renegade Knight

Why not go 2 levels on all 3 psykers? This lets you dive twice each into biomancy to hopefully get iron arm or something.
You might be able to lose a greater off your Tzeentch prince to grab warp armor on your nurgle prince. The robes will do wonders for keeping the tzeentch prince alive, and the armor would help nurgle. The tzeentch prince also benifits greatly from a lesser to get the boomstick for +2 STR.

There is a 2 day event next weekend and that is exactly the list I am considering bringing.
Do you have any other tips and tricks for playing the knights correctly?

blackmage wrote:
i love D thirster i played lot of times and never disappointed me but i m not sure it will 100% fit in tetrad. i dont think i can support it properly.

The tetrad are not support units. They will wind up using most of their psychic dice available for self-buffing. Getting that extra space to buff out a D-thirster might be hard.

I guess you could keep rolling for shrouding....

**RabbitMaster**

labmouse42 wrote:
RabbitMaster wrote:
#Infernal Tetrad:
-DP of T (warlord)
Psyker lvl3, Robe, 2xGreater
-DP of S
Psyker lvl3, Armor, 2xGreater
-DP of K
Armor of Scorn, 2xGreater, 1xLesser
-DP of N
2xGreater (yeah no armor, had to find points somewhere)

#Forsworn Detachment:
-Renegade Knight
-Renegade Knight
Why not go 2 levels on all 3 psykers? This lets you dive twice each into biomancy to hopefully get iron arm or something.
You might be able to lose a greater off your Tzeentch prince to grab warp armor on your nurgle prince. The robes will do wonders for keeping the tzeentch prince alive, and the armor would help nurgle. The tzeentch prince also benifits greatly from a lesser to get the boomstick for +2 STR.

There is a 2 day event next weekend and that is exactly the list I am considering bringing.
Do you have any other tips and tricks for playing the knights correctly?

With this army there is 2 power I really want:
Iron Arm on the Slaanesh prince for some S10 dakka with the lash.
Cursed Earth, preferrably on the Tzeentch, to buff up a lot of people.
Having those two princes lvl3 allows me to fish harder for those powers harder than if I had three lvl2 (cause you have to reroll duplicate power on a psyker).

Plus I don't really care about getting Iron Arm on the Nurgle prince. He wounds everything but GC on 3+ rerollable, so this power would be mostly defensive on him. Whereas on the slaanesh prince, it is used both offensively and defensively. Plus it creates a real good answer to flyers and heavily armored vehicles. And if there are GCs on the table, then I have 2 knights to deal with them, plus the Khorne prince if I'm feeling lucky.
The good side of going 3x lvl2 is being able to take 3 psychic shriek if you want. That is something I really miss with my current setup.

As for advices for the knights, I'm pretty new to them so I can't pretend to have THE truth about them. Oh yeah, sacrifice a kitten or a virgin before the battle to get 6s on those D swings/stomps

**gwarsh41**

I think I might rather drop the armor on the slaanesh prince than the nurgle prince. After all, the slaanesh one will be hard to hit all the time. With the knights on the table, unless your opponent has very heavy anti tank, they will be hard pressed to fire at the slaanesh prince with air craft. The nurgle prince is going to be in CC all the time, and could use that armor save a bit more.

I also really like this list. I think I might give it a try sometime. It's simple, like the daemon version of knights!

**blackmage**

if you play demons, chaos knight will be always a better choice 3++/2++ save is awsome against lot of armies which just cant handle it.