Miniature Market and Privateer Press Online Retailer Policy - Discount Reduced to 10% (Again)

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**lord_blackfang**

Clanan wrote:
Does this indicate PP is experiencing severely reduced revenue? It reads as very desperate.

No, they get the same money selling to online discounters as they do from FLGS. Doesn't matter how much the store charges the end customer.

What they're probably experiencing is a plateau in their growth, and they're clearly blaming the online retailers, because these do not recruit new players while brick and mortar stores supposedly do. And while there may be some truth to that, it's also true that Warmahordes itself has reached a plateau in its evolution and is at the point where they're just shoehorning fancy new models in but adding little to the play experience, giving little incentive to players to spend more money. Meanwhile, plenty of competing games have reached that sweet spot of exciting growth Warmahordes was in five years ago. PP is experiencing a stall in growth for the same reason GW is, and they're handling it in the same asinine way.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Nostromodamus wrote:
Guess they don't like online stores competing like they've got a pair.
?

Now that was a well-aimed blow.

The last time I bought any PP product, there were two miscast pieces. In order to get replacements, I had to go through all kinds of hurdles and send pictures and everything. A month later, they sent me two wrong pieces. I sent them more pictures and more description. Then I waited two more months for the correct pieces. So, either PP thinks I'm a criminal swindling them out of left arms, or PP has no regard for their customers at all. For the prices, their customer service should be better than Mantic's.

**Buzzsaw**

Smellingsalts wrote:
I know I am asking for it, replying to this post with so many obviously favoring discounting, but I own a brick and mortar store and I don't think you are seeing the big picture. I live on a 10% margin when I sell at MSRP, that means after I am done paying my employees, paying lights and phones, paying rent, I make 1 dollar out of every 10. When I discount below 10% I am losing money. No business can function for long doing that. Now say I manage to cut expenditures here and there (by laying off employees, cutting back on hours, etc), I can make a little more, but not double! Now many of the online discounters are discounting 15%, 20%, or more. There is no way a brick and mortar can compete. Most gamers met other gamers and built their community in and around brick and mortar. If they go (and if this trend continues, at least in terms of miniatures, they will go) where will you play? How will you grow the community with no common frame of reference (flgs)? Talk to any game store owner. 99% of them are not sitting on vast amounts of treasure! Most of them are barely making it. Half of my store is devoted to in-store play. I am a strong believer in community. But just last month I had to go through my PP miniatures and clearance sale many of them because they have not sold (turned) in over a year. I am in the process of reducing the number of PP miniatures I carry, and if I am doing it, other lfgs are as well. If that trend continues, it will effect PP and cause them to cut staff/hours/production, and if it gets bad enough they will shut down. It will take years for that to happen, but while it is happening it will effect your gaming experience. Fewer miniature releases, no more tournaments (they won't be able to give tournament support (prizes), and the biggest, lfgs will shift to selling product that is not heavily discounted. I know of 1 store in town that has dropped most of it's miniature lines and switched to selling mainly board games due to online discounters. You can't play Warmachine in their store because their tables are reserved for the games they sell. I am thinking about changing access to my tables based on a club instead of just free entry. That way, if a customer buys all of their stuff online, then they won't be using my tables (and I won't be losing sales when they get mad and leave). I know some champion of the free market is going to get on here and talk about how if I can't compete I should get out, and most of them haven't really read Adam Smith and his "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations (1776)" The place where we get our concept of the" free market" and the "invisible hand". Contrary to popular belief, he was not against regulation, he thought it should be just and limited. I think PP is being just and limited. The only thing that may have been more fair would have been to set the discounting limit. Right now, online discounters have no idea how much they can cut before being added to the "blacklist" and I think it would be fair if they clarified that. If you haven't talked to the owner of your lfgs, I suggest you do, to get more of a perspective on the subject. And please understand, I am not against online sales or discounts. But discounting should be reasonable and targeted (like a sale) not deep and across the board 24/7.

While I can completely sympathize with your situation, and wish you all the best, I think that the problem here may be somewhat different then a simple case of goods being undercut by online retailers with less footprint.

That is, in all honesty, I think that PP has allowed their product to slip relative to their competitors, such that the market no longer values their goods the same way PP values them.

Let me put it another way: I have (on many occasions) paid $25 or more, plus shipping and handling on top of that, for single miniatures from the Kingdom Death online store. I've paid that not simply because they were limited, but because I believed these figures were worth the price.

I simply can't say the same for PP's stuff anymore: maybe I'm still bitter from the launch of Convergence of Cyriss, but I haven't bought any PP products for ages, simply because I find many of their miniatures are not worth anything near the price they are asking for them. It's not just that their haven't gone to HIPS on the vast majority of their lines, it's that their lines suffer overall from dated and poor sculpts at best, and bad production at worst.

PP is charging a premium price for what is, IMO, an inferior product. Mantic, for example, does not charge what GW does, yet PP has many boxes that hover around Mantic levels of quality, but charges premium prices.

This is not to say that all of PP's new sculpts are trash, far from it, many of their newer sculpts, especially character sculpts, are of very high quality. But by and large the bulk of the armies, the troops that you need full units of, are terrible. A fine example of this is the Cylenna Rafel (sp?) and Nyss Hunters; a great unit in game, good art in concept... but both poorly sculpted and (by all accounts) one of the worst unit of models to assemble. For me to buy that unit (which I want to buy), one of two things has to happen: it either has to be redone to not be so terrible, or, failing that, it needs to be deeply discounted.

**Neronoxx**

Clanan wrote:
Does this indicate PP is experiencing severely reduced revenue? It reads as very desperate.

As mentioned, they're basically attacking the evolution of shopping via the internet. Instead of trying to shut down discount sellers, why don't they create incentives to actually shop at an FLGS? I'm a "free rider" by their definition, because I'd rather save 25%. They, and FLGs, need to adapt to the times. Create incentive-based tournaments, offer more "services" in-store so that I can support them (and I want to!).

So dumb. My group just started getting into WMH, but this is a huge turnoff.

It probably is desperate.
FLGS do a lot of work for these companies, and let me tell you, a lot of them don't do anything for FLGS in the way of support. Some offer tournament and event kits. but you know what?
Those cost Money. typically anywhere from $25-50, with some larger exceptions.
Events?
They cost Money as well. Stores have to pay the guy running the event. Here in good old, WA, that would mean that a 5-7 hour long tournament or event, not at all uncommon, would cost a store anywhere from $45-63 dollars, just to pay the employee, which are not all the fees. Tack on the price of the kit and you are looking at a cool $100.

Just to run the freaking event.
You stand there and cry "It's not my problem, the stores need to adapt to the times!"

What exactly are the stores supposed to adapt to? An online business model aimed specifically at stealing customers who would rather shop on price and strangling the Brick and mortar aspect of the industry?
Did you know that most online retailers have far less costs than a FLGS? So the minimum they need to make is lower, thus they can afford to discount products far lower than normally possible, and maintain those prices all year round, fully knowing that a Brick and Mortar store couldn't compete due to the increased costs they have.

Here's a thought. Maybe Discounts should be done one special occasions, or like, on holidays. Maybe we could even have a shopping holiday, named after a day and a color. That's kinda the idea behind Discounts, that they're special. If a place discounts a product 24/7, that's not discounting. That's price gouging.
If you 'want to' support your FLGS, then fricking do it. Saying ' i want to support my local store and use their resources, but I don't want to give them my money' is kind of selfish, and is indicative of the problem that lies with today's gamers. "I want to be able to play at a nice store, with nice terrain, and nice people. But I don't want to have to be apart of that monetarily.'
These things costs FLGS money, and they have these nice things, and areas and people, so that you will spend money with them. Because lets be honest- it would be better for the FLGS to close up shop, buy a warehouse and go all digital.
TLDR; be responsible cheap -gits, and at least understand the situation before spewing out your mouth about it. No offence.

**deleted20250424**

I'm always slightly confused by the FLGS vs. "Online" store arguments when it comes to the "resources" comparison.

I've been to the physical location of Miniatures Market. I have never in my life seen a "physical" hobby store with that much space or personnel. Their costs for lights, heat, A/C, employees, and all the other things mentioned, absolutely have to far out-strip any FLGS.

I'm guessing the response will be volume and variety is how they can cut so low, like say... Walmart.

I'm also aware that there are some online discounters that are 1-2 man operations. The big movers and shakers in the online space are not these guys.

I also believe it's Battlefront (?) that requires anyone selling onlien to have a physical store to sell their products. PP could move to something like that, which will levle the field more, and in a more sensible way.

**spiralingcadaver**

smellingsalts, I think you're moving towards some good points there, but I honestly tried four times to read that and the wall of text makes it impossible to read.

**Agamemnon2**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Press's business model was and is very much based around "screw GW, we are better" so yeah, people are kinda upset.

Yes, but they're upset at innocent gamers whose only crime was to buy the cheapest things they could get their hands on? How dared they?

**hotsauceman1**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Clanan wrote:

What they're probably experiencing is a plateau in their growth, and they're clearly blaming the online retailers, because these do not recruit new players while brick and mortar stores supposedly do. And while there may be some truth to that, it's also true that Warmahordes itself has reached a plateau in its evolution and is at the point where they're just shoehorning fancy new models in but adding little to the play experience, giving little incentive to players to spend more money. Meanwhile, plenty of competing games have reached that sweet spot of exciting growth Warmahordes was in five years ago. PP is experiencing a stall in growth for the same reason GW is, and they're handling it in the same asinine way.

To be honest, I would blame their clearly gakky way they approach their game. That no model painting is required, that no terrain is required, just felt cutouts. It isnt a game where people want to get into.

**Clanan**

Nero, I appreciate your candid response, but good luck trying to shame gamers into adopting the shopping methods you espouse. I, like many others, shop on price. Instead of belittling rational consumer behavior, B&M should find more direct ways to adopt. Forcing higher prices better lead to products worth those prices, or I'll find something else to do. Just like every other gamer!

I keep reading the reply of "but I have tables and scenery and community!". That's great, but if your primary product is something I can find online for 20% cheaper, then those other "extras" need to be more enticing, especially if I can play at home or use meetup.com. I doubt most consumers will support local stores out of charity, regardless of how much shame is thrown their way. How about designing services around your amenities? I would happily pay for some sort of subscriber-based community enrichment thing.

Anyway, this all sounds like Borders and GW all over again. Instead of fighting consumer behavior, learn to deal and profit from it. Or don't. See how that goes...

**Smellingsalts**

TalonZahn wrote:
I'm always slightly confused by the FLGS vs. "Online" store arguments when it comes to the "resources" comparison.

I've been to the physical location of Miniatures Market. I have never in my life seen a "physical" hobby store with that much space or personnel. Their costs for lights, heat, A/C, employees, and all the other things mentioned, absolutely have to far out-strip any FLGS.

I'm guessing the response will be volume and variety is how they can cut so low, like say... Walmart.

I'm also aware that there are some online discounters that are 1-2 man operations. The big movers and shakers in the online space are not these guys.

I also believe it's Battlefront (?) that requires anyone selling onlien to have a physical store to sell their products. PP could move to something like that, which will levle the field more, and in a more sensible way.

With all due respect, costs are regional. In California, a business like Miniature Market may not be possible because the costs are much higher, but the internet effectively allows them to sell in California while avoiding those costs. Also, aberrations like someone having a lot of wealth and using it to bludgeon the market into submission are also rare. There are many reasons to be concerned about Walmart's pricing structure vs what they do to their employees and community. Many cities have kept Walmart out for fear of what they would do to mom and pop stores.

**spiralingcadaver**

IDK about shaming, but I eat full retail on anything that isn't a big purchase- I consider the extra worth it to keep a gaming venue in business.

However, I've definitely stopped shopping at any gaming store where I don't consider their customer service and/or gaming space a boon, since, like you said, it isn't a charity.

(The difference in big purchase prices means online spaces generally see my business for anything particularly large... which hasn't been much recently, though)

**hotsauceman1**

So what do gamestores do to ofset the major price increase to make me buy at our store?
if you dont have what I want,, I order it, but it could take weeks to get there, Amazon it is free 1 day shipping.
If you do, I have to pay full price for it, yes convienance is a factor, but that only goes so far?
Do you offer events for the game I play? If im in there often for events, im more likely to impulse buy, if not models, paints, brushes, dice.
And dont charge for tables, that is a way to make people hate you.

**deleted20250424**

Smellingsalts wrote:

With all due respect, costs are regional. In California, a business like Miniature Market may not be possible because the costs are much higher, but the internet effectively allows them to sell in California while avoiding those costs. Also, aberrations like someone having a lot of wealth and using it to bludgeon the market into submission are also rare. There are many reasons to be concerned about Walmart's pricing structure vs what they do to their employees and community. Many cities have kept Walmart out for fear of what they would do to mom and pop stores.

While that might be true, it's true for ALL online businesses/markets. A guy selling aftermarket auto parts in Iowa to a guy in California can do it cheaper than the local California shop.

However, a guy running a 2500 square foot FLGS in California isn't paying as much rent as a guy running a 20000 square foot warehouse in Missouri. He's also not employing as many people.

I get that it's hard to run a FLGS and compete against the online discounters. That FLGS has to come up with another way to compete. As I said, in most cases, those big online guys have the same infrastructure bills as the FLGS, and more/bigger bills.

**Sigvatr**

It's interesting to read about the US situation. How is playing organized over there? In Germany, a lot of people play in clubs, either at a FLGS or, as in our case, in an own location. The FLGS, or the ones I can speak for, are very interested in keeping people and support local tournaments. They know that they cannot compete with online prices and thus, they try to bind people by other means. They host a lot of tournaments, people attend and people buy there. A lot of them do well, but at the same time, they really do a lot for their customers. Some don't do well despite being active and the main problem is that a medium-sized city cannot hold more than 1 or 2 stores.

tl;dr: FLGS need to make people /want/ to go there in order to make them /buy/ there.

**Wehrkind**

It strikes me as a bit odd that people are arguing over who has more/less infrastructure etc., as though it is a competition over who is really "the little guy" or some other victim. It is really a question of who serves the customer needs better.

It seems that for the most part cheap online stores and brick and mortar stores that offer good service serve the customers better, based on where customers spend their money. Stores that don't offer much in the way of resources, good customer service and/or good stock don't do well, regardless of being brick and mortar or not. Stores that manage to offer things people want and are willing to pay for do better.

The nice thing about this whole debate though is that nothing we say is really going to matter; people are going to spend where and how they want, and if PP or GW decides to limit themselves to higher price outlets, well we will see how that works out for them. I personally am disappointed to see PP shoot themselves in the foot like this because I really like their game systems, but their choice is their choice.

**spiralingcadaver**

TalonZahn wrote:

However, a guy running a 2500 square foot FLGS in California isn't paying as much rent as a guy running a 20000 square foot warehouse in Missouri.

I... would't be so sure about that, actually.
edit-quote problems

**deleted20250424**

Wehrkind wrote:
It strikes me as a bit odd that people are arguing over who has more/less infrastructure etc., as though it is a competition over who is really "the little guy" or some other victim. It is really a question of who serves the customer needs better.

That's really the point of my statements.

People cry foul because the FLGS has utility bills and employees.... well so do the online guys.

It's about what the FLGS can do, outside of discounts, to level the field.

I'm 1.5 hours from the nearest store. So unless it's a big event ro some tourney, I play at home or in other players homes.

**Prestor Jon**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
TalonZahn wrote:

However, a guy running a 2500 square foot FLGS in California isn't paying as much rent as a guy running a 20000 square foot warehouse in Missouri.
I... would't be so sure about that, actually.
edit-quote problems

Yeah, warehouse rents are always going to be lower than retail rents. You may be able to find some markets where warehouse rents are closer to retail rents in other markets but there's always going to be a decent sized cost gap.

Labor costs will vary depending on number of employees and location but warehousing online discounters probably need fewer employees and can save money on labor compared to retailers.

This is what technological progress does, it lowers costs by increasing productivity and efficiency. Webstores and warehouses are cheaper to operate than brick and mortar businesses.

**hotsauceman1**

Sigvatr wrote:
It's interesting to read about the US situation. How is playing organized over there? In Germany, a lot of people play in clubs, either at a FLGS or, as in our case, in an own location. The FLGS, or the ones I can speak for, are very interested in keeping people and support local tournaments. They know that they cannot compete with online prices and thus, they try to bind people by other means. They host a lot of tournaments, people attend and people buy there. A lot of them do well, but at the same time, they really do a lot for their customers. Some don't do well despite being active and the main problem is that a medium-sized city cannot hold more than 1 or 2 stores.

tl;dr: FLGS need to make people /want/ to go there in order to make them /buy/ there.

Here FLGS tend to operate like a charity, infact, most small businesses do. citing stuff like "Buy so I can support my family" and "Help me keep the lights on" and so forth.
They yse guilt trips to keep ya, not real business practices.

**vitki**

TalonZahn wrote:

I'm 1.5 hours from the nearest store. So unless it's a big event ro some tourney, I play at home or in other players homes.

Yep, that's me too. The closest store to me is about an hour away. After a 60+ hour week and a commute, that much driving time isn't in the cards. It doesn't matter that they have days assigned for each of they systems I like playing, I can't get there in a reasonable amount of time.

When I had a FLGS within a 15-20 minute drive, I was there all the time and spent money pretty much every time I was there.
Now it is at my home or a close friend's house. If that is the case, why shouldn't I be looking for the lowest possible price I can get?

If there is no longer a discount to buying online, I can see my entire groups enthusiasm dwindle for PP stuff.

**MLaw**

Wehrkind wrote:
It strikes me as a bit odd that people are arguing over who has more/less infrastructure etc., as though it is a competition over who is really "the little guy" or some other victim. It is really a question of who serves the customer needs better.

It seems that for the most part cheap online stores and brick and mortar stores that offer good service serve the customers better, based on where customers spend their money. Stores that don't offer much in the way of resources, good customer service and/or good stock don't do well, regardless of being brick and mortar or not. Stores that manage to offer things people want and are willing to pay for do better.

The nice thing about this whole debate though is that nothing we say is really going to matter; people are going to spend where and how they want, and if PP or GW decides to limit themselves to higher price outlets, well we will see how that works out for them. I personally am disappointed to see PP shoot themselves in the foot like this because I really like their game systems, but their choice is their choice.

To me that's the bigger thing. The policy is only marginally important. GW has had a similar policy for more than a decade now IIRC and I know more than a few places to buy their goods the way I did prior to those policies being in place. It's just really about the tone and perceived lack of tact on their part.

EDIT: As was pointed out above.. if the MSRP were more reasonable on many of their products, online retailers wouldn't have to heavily discount to get people to buy.

**Sinful Hero**

vitki wrote:
TalonZahn wrote:

I'm 1.5 hours from the nearest store. So unless it's a big event ro some tourney, I play at home or in other players homes.

Yep, that's me too. The closest store to me is about an hour away. After a 60+ hour week and a commute, that much driving time isn't in the cards. It doesn't matter that they have days assigned for each of they systems I like playing, I can't get there in a reasonable amount of time.

When I had a FLGS within a 15-20 minute drive, I was there all the time and spent money pretty much every time I was there.
Now it is at my home or a close friend's house. If that is the case, why shouldn't I be looking for the lowest possible price I can get?

If there is no longer a discount to buying online, I can see my entire groups enthusiasm dwindle for PP stuff.

I'm in the same boat- I've got 3 FLGS each an hour away. I was under the impression that game stores were more vital to the community in Europe because of how much closer they would be to a store, and how much smaller housing is generally. My group has always just made our own tables and terrain, and game at one of our houses since High School.

**gungo**

GW is even more reasonable then privateer press, lol.
With GW you can still buy products 25-30% off msrp however online companies can't list prices for GW products online.

Privateer press is going to flat out ban certain retailers who do heavy discounts which they don't define and can be anywhere from the 30-10% discounts you currently find online.

**DarkTraveler777**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
It's interesting to read about the US situation. How is playing organized over there? In Germany, a lot of people play in clubs, either at a FLGS or, as in our case, in an own location. The FLGS, or the ones I can speak for, are very interested in keeping people and support local tournaments. They know that they cannot compete with online prices and thus, they try to bind people by other means. They host a lot of tournaments, people attend and people buy there. A lot of them do well, but at the same time, they really do a lot for their customers. Some don't do well despite being active and the main problem is that a medium-sized city cannot hold more than 1 or 2 stores.

tl;dr: FLGS need to make people /want/ to go there in order to make them /buy/ there.

Here FLGS tend to operate like a charity, infact, most small businesses do. citing stuff like "Buy so I can support my family" and "Help me keep the lights on" and so forth.
They yse guilt trips to keep ya, not real business practices.

Well not all American FLGS operate in quite that manner. Sigvatr is correct, a store needs to provide an environment that encourages people to stop in and shop. Unfortunately a lot of game shops don't do that, or they don't do it for the random customers that come in, catering instead to the tastes of regulars/friends who may not have the store's financial interests at heart.

For example, the FLGS near me has a very strong Warmahordes crowd and hosts weekly Warmahordes nights (Thursdays) and schedules tournaments frequently. The store is large enough and established enough to have a pretty strong player base which honestly does a lot of the "work" for the FLGS in terms of helping new players getting started and getting word out about events. Of course the store provides a large gaming area with multiple tables and bins full of terrain which allow people to create a number of themed gaming surfaces which keeps people coming back. The staff are generally helpful and friendly as well, and their selection of stock is impressive. They suck at special orders, but that is what the internet is for.

I used to attend Warmachine tournaments at a different game shop that was the opposite in terms of player access and atmosphere. Very small location, limited table space, and the environment was not friendly (the owner's kids would use the gaming area as their own playpen which was cluttered with children's toys and the kids themselves tended to be handsy with players' models). Overall it made for a less enjoyable environment to play and of course shop at.

Supporting a store like my current FLGS is a no brainer because they provide a space that I actually want to go to. The shop with the kids toys and grabby toddlers not so much.

**gungo**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
TalonZahn wrote:

However, a guy running a 2500 square foot FLGS in California isn't paying as much rent as a guy running a 20000 square foot warehouse in Missouri.
I... would't be so sure about that, actually.
edit-quote problems

correct my brother in law is a retail property manager in NYC. As in he leases retail space. He has store fronts that pay $25,000 per sq ft a month.

There is no warehouse in rural Missouri that costs anywhere near that price. And we are not even including the state, federal and local taxes that are all higher as well. Nor the increased utility cost in city areas.

**timetowaste85**

Smellingsalts wrote:
I know I am asking for it, replying to this post with so many obviously favoring discounting, but I own a brick and mortar store and I don't think you are seeing the big picture. I live on a 10% margin when I sell at MSRP, that means after I am done paying my employees, paying lights and phones, paying rent, I make 1 dollar out of every 10. When I discount below 10% I am losing money. No business can function for long doing that. Now say I manage to cut expenditures here and there (by laying off employees, cutting back on hours, etc), I can make a little more, but not double! Now many of the online discounters are discounting 15%, 20%, or more. There is no way a brick and mortar can compete. Most gamers met other gamers and built their community in and around brick and mortar. If they go (and if this trend continues, at least in terms of miniatures, they will go) where will you play? How will you grow the community with no common frame of reference (flgs)? Talk to any game store owner. 99% of them are not sitting on vast amounts of treasure! Most of them are barely making it. Half of my store is devoted to in-store play. I am a strong believer in community. But just last month I had to go through my PP miniatures and clearance sale many of them because they have not sold (turned) in over a year. I am in the process of reducing the number of PP miniatures I carry, and if I am doing it, other lfgs are as well. If that trend continues, it will effect PP and cause them to cut staff/hours/production, and if it gets bad enough they will shut down. It will take years for that to happen, but while it is happening it will effect your gaming experience. Fewer miniature releases, no more tournaments (they won't be able to give tournament support (prizes), and the biggest, lfgs will shift to selling product that is not heavily discounted. I know of 1 store in town that has dropped most of it's miniature lines and switched to selling mainly board games due to online discounters. You can't play Warmachine in their store because their tables are reserved for the games they sell. I am thinking about changing access to my tables based on a club instead of just free entry. That way, if a customer buys all of their stuff online, then they won't be using my tables (and I won't be losing sales when they get mad and leave). I know some champion of the free market is going to get on here and talk about how if I can't compete I should get out, and most of them haven't really read Adam Smith and his "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations (1776)" The place where we get our concept of the" free market" and the "invisible hand". Contrary to popular belief, he was not against regulation, he thought it should be just and limited. I think PP is being just and limited. The only thing that may have been more fair would have been to set the discounting limit. Right now, online discounters have no idea how much they can cut before being added to the "blacklist" and I think it would be fair if they clarified that. If you haven't talked to the owner of your lfgs, I suggest you do, to get more of a perspective on the subject. And please understand, I am not against online sales or discounts. But discounting should be reasonable and targeted (like a sale) not deep and across the board 24/7.

How are you paying such high costs?! I have a friend who had a game store, and I used to work in one. I've also had opportunity to RECENTLY (less than a year) go to distributor open days. The standard rate that stores pay to get stock is around 60%. Some, like buying directly from certain companies (PM me if you're a store owner and want to know a couple options), only charge 30% or 35% of retail. If you're paying 90% of cost instead of around 60%, I have no idea how you're still in business-you're screwing yourself over. Again, I've BEEN to these open days. I know firsthand how it works. You're getting screwed. BTW, if memory serves, PP only charges stores either 50% or 55%. I don't remember which. Local game stores should EASILY be able to offer some form of discount on their material. Talk to Privateer directly. Tell your distributor you'll start ordering elsewhere. They're doing you a serious disservice.

**NAVARRO**

Damn, this is ridiculous in so many levels its unbelievable.

I buy PP minis at online retailers because I do not have the time to go to stores and spend time there playing, its not convenient/possible for a busy guy ( how many thousands did they make in sales from people like me?)... I still buy though! So instead of PP saying thanks for my business they call me a fething parasite... Thats not having a pair thats just having suicidal tendencies.

Besides If people do not buy PP stuff at full retail price its not because of the internet sales gizmo, its because they do no see value on PP miniatures... Overpriced miniatures are at the end of the day just overpriced miniatures. So yeah want to change the game? Clean your crap first.

This measure is a clear hint of a company not doing well at all and guess what its going to get even worse.

**OgreChubbs**

Because if people stop being dramatic there would never be problems lol. But since in the contract to sell pp stuff you need a brick and mortar shut down all web ones for breaking contracts and sue them I say.

**deleted20250424**

gungo wrote:
spiralingcadaver wrote:
TalonZahn wrote:

However, a guy running a 2500 square foot FLGS in California isn't paying as much rent as a guy running a 20000 square foot warehouse in Missouri.
I... would't be so sure about that, actually.
edit-quote problems

correct my brother in law is a retail property manager in NYC. As in he leases retail space. He has store fronts that pay $25,000 per sq ft a month.

There is no warehouse in rural Missouri that costs anywhere near that price. And we are not even including the state, federal and local taxes that are all higher as well. Nor the increased utility cost in city areas.

Miniatures Market, when I visited them, were just a couple miles outside downtown St. Louis, not in BFE country.

There were also dozens of employees in the warehouse picking and packing orders. Not to mention the dozen or more people in the office areas.

The costs of space, utilities, and employees are not unique to the FLGS. A place that spends less on these items than a massive place like that.

Anyway, we're drifting, so back to the topic.

**ced1106**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Here FLGS tend to operate like a charity, infact, most small businesses do. citing stuff like "Buy so I can support my family" and "Help me keep the lights on" and so forth.
They yse guilt trips to keep ya, not real business practices.

Either that, or they keep running Magic tournaments.

Smelling salts mentions that "I had to go through my PP miniatures and clearance sale many of them because they have not sold (turned) in over a year." Well, my view of the bigger picture is that boardgames and miniature games, from the FLGS point of view, don't bring in the money that Magic packs do. But, contrary to internet prophets, that doesn't mean miniatures wargaming will *completely* go away, any more than miniatures wargaming completely went away when Magic was responsible for the majority of a FLGS's sales for the last ten or twenty years or so. An individual *publisher* (like PP) may go out of business. But KS projects certainly show companies (well, Mantic) eager to go after the miniatures wargaming audience, and even GW has seemed to change their policy. Somebody still thinks there's a market out there for miniatures wargaming...