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judgedoug wrote:I get a feeling that the only people that are complaining about prices have never actually bought a LOTR/H model.

12 Iron Hills dwarves for £40 is currently $48.95.

12 Finecast Hobbit models is $100.
12 metal Lord of the Rings models is $60
10 plastic Hobbit Mirkwood Palace Guard is $40

Iron Hills Dwarves in resin are a fething STEAL at $48.95 for 12, less than half the price of Finecast and a significant savings over metal models.

I guess the reality of the pricing situation isn't as fun as inventing things to bitch about though

Oh I have LotR mins but only The Hobbit boxset. I quit after that. I am not really complaining about the prices for Forge World. It's I can't buy it right away from a store.

If this has already been shared, apologies. From Atia's blog: War of Sigmar

Howdy Guys and Girls

Good news for all fans of middle-earth - the new Hobbit Sourcebook (for cheap 35 pounds) and the Laketown Houses (for even cheaper 25 pounds) will be up for pre-order on November 26.

As said before, the houses are modular and should be useful for middle-earth games, AoS or even Mordheim. The rulesbook contains everything you need to re-play the last two hobbit movies (yes, rules without models!).

Regards,
Lady Atia

£25 is a reasonable price for that scenery.

 judgedoug wrote:
I get a feeling that the only people that are complaining about prices have never actually bought a LOTR/H model.

12 Iron Hills dwarves for £40 is currently $48.95.

12 Finecast Hobbit models is $100.
12 metal Lord of the Rings models is $60
10 plastic Hobbit Mirkwood Palace Guard is $40

Iron Hills Dwarves in resin are a fething STEAL at $48.95 for 12, less than half the price of Finecast and a significant savings over metal models.

I guess the reality of the pricing situation isn't as fun as inventing things to bitch about though

Then again: Minas tirith. 15£, 12 guys and that's after ridiculous price hike GW did. Trebucket 35£.

Just because GW went totally bonkers with pricing with the hobbit doesn't mean FW is good prices just because it might be tad cheaper.

 judgedoug wrote:
I get a feeling that the only people that are complaining about prices have never actually bought a LOTR/H model.

12 Iron Hills dwarves for £40 is currently $48.95.

12 Finecast Hobbit models is $100.
12 metal Lord of the Rings models is $60
10 plastic Hobbit Mirkwood Palace Guard is $40

Iron Hills Dwarves in resin are a fething STEAL at $48.95 for 12, less than half the price of Finecast and a significant savings over metal models.

I guess the reality of the pricing situation isn't as fun as inventing things to bitch about though

Well no. I've bought stuff in the past, but I think these models are too expensive for what they are. So I'm passing on them and getting my stuff from elsewhere. you can justify the prices to yourself if you like, but don't pin it on others if they disagree with the costs.

Chikout wrote:
From Atia's blog: War of Sigmar

...and the Laketown Houses (for even cheaper 25 pounds) will be up for pre-order on November 26.

Thanks for relaying this! The price sounds very reasonable for GW scenery. I can see these becoming popular with almost everyone at that price.

 judgedoug wrote:
I get a feeling that the only people that are complaining about prices have never actually bought a LOTR/H model.

12 Iron Hills dwarves for £40 is currently $48.95.

12 Finecast Hobbit models is $100.
12 metal Lord of the Rings models is $60
10 plastic Hobbit Mirkwood Palace Guard is $40

Iron Hills Dwarves in resin are a fething STEAL at $48.95 for 12, less than half the price of Finecast and a significant savings over metal models.

I guess the reality of the pricing situation isn't as fun as inventing things to bitch about though

It's not the spearman some of us are complaining about...it's Dain at the same cost.

Price of dwarfs is okay, Dain does strike me as £10 overpriced.

Models are super, though! But I have promised myself no new ones until I clear some of the LOTR backlog

rephrasing

12 Iron Hills dwarves for £40 is currently $48.95.

12 metal Lord of the Rings models from 2016 is $60

12 metal Lord of the Rings models from 2006 is $48 OH WAIT

The Forge world resin just-released Iron Hills Dwarves are approximately the same price as 12 metal Lord of the Rings models from ten years ago.

There's no "justifying" going on here, it's just simply fact that the FW Iron Hills Dwarf infantry models are a significant price reduction not only compared to Hobbit Finecast but also to the currently available metal Lord of the Rings models, and are a comparable price to metal Lord of the Rings models from a decade ago.

I seriously think these models could be free and people would still just want to bitch because GW.

 judgedoug wrote:
rephrasing

12 Iron Hills dwarves for £40 is currently $48.95.

12 metal Lord of the Rings models from 2016 is $60

12 metal Lord of the Rings models from 2006 is $48 OH WAIT

The Forge world resin just-released Iron Hills Dwarves are approximately the same price as 12 metal Lord of the Rings models from ten years ago.

There's no "justifying" going on here, it's just simply fact that the FW Iron Hills Dwarf infantry models are a significant price reduction not only compared to Hobbit Finecast but also to the currently available metal Lord of the Rings models, and are a comparable price to metal Lord of the Rings models from a decade ago.

I seriously think these models could be free and people would still just want to bitch because GW.

Sure cherry picking allows that but why keep picking most expensive options rather than more realistic comparisons?

It's the exchange rate that makes it cheaper, not GW's price point. 12 Iron Hill Dwarves are £40, 12 metal Lotr warriors are £32.80.

More importantly though that's not the price people are complaining about. It's Dain being £40 when a metal foot/mounted character is £17.

How much is the plastic boxes and how do they compare in that little chart of pricing? Or do they not count for whatever reason?

 Fabio Bile wrote:


More importantly though that's not the price people are complaining about. It's Dain being £40 when a metal foot/mounted character is £17.

Huh? It's two models. Two foot models would then be £34. So, an extra £6 for the mount is a stretch?

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Fabio Bile wrote:


More importantly though that's not the price people are complaining about. It's Dain being £40 when a metal foot/mounted character is £17.

Huh? It's two models. Two foot models would then be £34. So, an extra £6 for the mount is a stretch?

Those metal ft & mtd models come together in one blister. Thats £17 for both, not £17 each.

And lets compare it to Finecast Hobbit blisters.

Azog, ft and mtd. £25

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Azog-foot-mounted

Bolg, ft and mtd. £27.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Bolg-Castellan-of-Mount-Gundabad



It doesn't matter what distorted lens you view this through, Dain is considerably more expensive.

Would be nice when FW someday replace all the old lotr plastic models with complete new resin versions.

RazorEdge wrote:
Would be nice when FW someday replace all the old lotr plastic models with complete new resin versions.

Rather not. As nice as FW minis are, it would make a larger LotR force virtually unaffordable.

I would quit the game entirely if they did that, and sell off of my entire collection to a new player.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I would quit the game entirely if they did that, and sell off of my entire collection to a new player.

Why?

Dramatic effect!

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I would quit the game entirely if they did that, and sell off of my entire collection to a new player.

Why?

Have you heard of the Laffer Curve?...

There will come a point at which I will have to draw a line and decide the game has become too expensive. And there are far too many competing games out there at much more reasonable prices. GW converting all its plastic kits to resin would involve a HUGE markup. One of the few saving graces of the SBG re the prices is that there are plenty of cheap plastic kits available, especially second hand. Take that away by replacing the plastic with resin, and you're just left with an extremely expensive resin range.

I haven't played the sbg in a year. If GW did this, I'd sell off my collection and invest it into SAGA and This is Not a Test (Fallout skirmish game).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:



It doesn't matter what distorted lens you view this through, Dain is considerably more expensive.

I certainly don't deny that. Forgeworld comes with a premium - always has and always will. If it means that they can still do fringe projects then so be it.

Its hardly a fringe product. The LOTR and Hobbit are huge movie franchises with strong brand recognition. If a complete stranger who's never had any involvement with miniature wargaming walks into a store you'd have to explain what the Warhammer universes are all about, but name drop the Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit and they'd instantly know what you're talking about. The SBG community is thriving and going from strength to strength and are entirely responsible for sustaining the game for years without official support from GW.

Its about time GW recognised that the SBG is not a fringe side project, and indeed we're starting to see indications of that such as their new Middle Earth design team and latest releases.

Maybe its because I don't really use GW models for my LotR gaming, so if they all move to forgeworld it won't affect my current purchasing habits for the game.

The game would probably be better off continuing with the DIY attitude than GW sticking their oar in, I suspect.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I would quit the game entirely if they did that, and sell off of my entire collection to a new player.

Why?

Rage quit?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
GW converting all its plastic kits to resin would involve a HUGE markup.

I certainly have no insight into the inner workings of the GW hivemind, but I doubt that is going to happen. In fact, I think it would be an exceedingly stupid thing to do. AFAIK, FW is just going to produce new stuff that was never done by GW, like the Iron Hills Dwarfs.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Its hardly a fringe product. The LOTR and Hobbit are huge movie franchises with strong brand recognition. If a complete stranger who's never had any involvement with miniature wargaming walks into a store you'd have to explain what the Warhammer universes are all about, but name drop the Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit and they'd instantly know what you're talking about. The SBG community is thriving and going from strength to strength and are entirely responsible for sustaining the game for years without official support from GW.

Further to that, LOTR was *the* big game when the films were out. Stores were full and GW could barely keep up with demand.

That it's now regarded as a fringe game has nothing to do with the IP.

The FW dwarves are not a new line in the sand, folks. LotR/Hobbit has been too expensive for a while. If these Dwarves give you sticker shock, you must have forgotten how expensive FC figs for this game have been for a long while now.

Oh, I'm not arguing Dain isn't expensive - he's stupidly expensive. $50 for a dwarf on foot and mounted is more than Bolg foot and mounted, and Bolg is several times more massive.

But the dwarf infantry are cheap as dirt. Anyone complaining about the cost of the resin dwarf infantry hasn't bought any LOTR models since 2005, because the resin dwarf infantry are the same price as metal LOTR models in 2006. They are cheaper than other resin infantry from other companies and look much nicer. And, yes, of course they're more expensive than plastic models - they're also more expensive than paper models too! but they are cheaper than the metals and half the price of finecast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
The FW dwarves are not a new line in the sand, folks. LotR/Hobbit has been too expensive for a while. If these Dwarves give you sticker shock, you must have forgotten how expensive FC figs for this game have been for a long while now.

Or the fact that in 2006, metal LOTR models were $12 for a pack of 3, which is roughly the same cost as these resin FW Iron Hills dwarves a decade later.
In the last decade, metal LOTR models went from $12 for 3, to $13.25 for 3, to $15 for 3. the FW Iron Hills Dwarves are cheaper than LOTR metal models (and half the price of FC Hobbit models)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I would quit the game entirely if they did that, and sell off of my entire collection to a new player.

Why?

There will come a point at which I will have to draw a line and decide the game has become too expensive. And there are far too many competing games out there at much more reasonable prices. GW converting all its plastic kits to resin would involve a HUGE markup. One of the few saving graces of the SBG re the prices is that there are plenty of cheap plastic kits available, especially second hand. Take that away by replacing the plastic with resin, and you're just left with an extremely expensive resin range.

I haven't played the sbg in a year. If GW did this, I'd sell off my collection and invest it into SAGA and This is Not a Test (Fallout skirmish game).

You're the guy that burned his Dark Elf army on Youtube right?

 judgedoug wrote:
Oh, I'm not arguing Dain isn't expensive - he's stupidly expensive. $50 for a dwarf on foot and mounted is more than Bolg foot and mounted, and Bolg is several times more massive.

But the dwarf infantry are cheap as dirt. Anyone complaining about the cost of the resin dwarf infantry hasn't bought any LOTR models since 2005, because the resin dwarf infantry are the same price as metal LOTR models in 2006. They are cheaper than other resin infantry from other companies and look much nicer. And, yes, of course they're more expensive than plastic models - they're also more expensive than paper models too! but they are cheaper than the metals and half the price of finecast.

They are not cheap as dirt. Them being the same price as expensive metal models makes them also expensive, not dirt cheap.
But I do not think anyone has complained about the price of the Dwarf troops. Miniatures in general are very expensive and these are fairly priced as far as GW products go.
What people are complaining about is Dain, who is just on an entirely new level of ridiculously expensive.

 judgedoug wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I would quit the game entirely if they did that, and sell off of my entire collection to a new player.

Why?

There will come a point at which I will have to draw a line and decide the game has become too expensive. And there are far too many competing games out there at much more reasonable prices. GW converting all its plastic kits to resin would involve a HUGE markup. One of the few saving graces of the SBG re the prices is that there are plenty of cheap plastic kits available, especially second hand. Take that away by replacing the plastic with resin, and you're just left with an extremely expensive resin range.

I haven't played the sbg in a year. If GW did this, I'd sell off my collection and invest it into SAGA and This is Not a Test (Fallout skirmish game).

You're the guy that burned his Dark Elf army on Youtube right?

Why are you being so obtuse?
Just because you are willing and able to spend huge amounts of money on miniatures does not mean that everyone is. The plastic LotR kits are significantly cheaper than the resin sets. If the plastics were converted to resin, that'd certainly bring a huge price increase with it which for some people would push the hobby from "expensive but affordable" into "too expensive" and they would give up on it. Is that so hard to understand?

I am hoping that if they ever remake the plastic kits (which I doubt they will) that they will keep them in plastic, rather than resin. New LotR plastics would be amazing.

 mdauben wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I would quit the game entirely if they did that, and sell off of my entire collection to a new player.

Why?

Rage quit?

I've already explained.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:
You're the guy that burned his Dark Elf army on Youtube right?

No. I've never played nor collected Warhammer Fantasy.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Why are you being so obtuse?

So, let me get this straight, you guys are arguing that...

if GW decided to destroy the steel molds to dozens of LOTR and Hobbit plastics...
and then redesign the miniatures from dozens of plastic kits...
to be released in FW resin...

THEN

you would take the armies you already own...
and get rid of them.

Brilliant!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
They are not cheap as dirt. Them being the same price as expensive metal models makes them also expensive, not dirt cheap.
But I do not think anyone has complained about the price of the Dwarf troops. Miniatures in general are very expensive and these are fairly priced as far as GW products go.
What people are complaining about is Dain, who is just on an entirely new level of ridiculously expensive.

Seems to be several people over the course of the last few pages complaining that $4 for a resin miniature is somehow ridiculous, despite it being perhaps the cheapest you can get a highly detailed 28mm miniature in resin nowadays. My favorite arguments are "but they are more expensive than plastic!!!" Well no fething gak! It's also more expensive than paper standees - oh, gak, it's also more expensive than rocks with smiley faces painted on them!

There have been several complaints that somehow 50 bucks for 12 resin FW dwarves is price gouging or ridiculously overpriced compared to the rest of the line, when those arguments have been proven to be demonstrably false. They are cheaper than the metal LOTR miniatures and they are half the price of the Finecast miniatures. Anyone that plays Feifdoms, Gundabad, Laketown, Mirkwood (soldiers), or fields warbands of specialists troops such as Abrakhan Guard, Watchers of Karna, Mordor Uruk-Hai, Blackshields, Black Numenoreans, Black Guard, and a neverending list of models only available in metal and Finecast can attest to this simple fact.

But, people like to hate on GW even though they've actually released a product that is at a tremendously significant discount over the last ten years worth of releases! It's absurdly comical.

I don't think anyone has argued that Dain is reasonably priced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had to take a step back and realize that the last couple pages have been people complaining that LOTR/Hobbit SBG, which has had no new releases for several years, is now getting new models and a new sourcebook (this month!) and the thread is littered with complaints. Good job everyone!

 judgedoug wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Why are you being so obtuse?

So, let me get this straight, you guys are arguing that...

if GW decided to destroy the steel molds to dozens of LOTR and Hobbit plastics...
and then redesign the miniatures from dozens of plastic kits...
to be released in FW resin...

THEN

you would take the armies you already own...
and get rid of them.

Brilliant!

No. I would look at my incomplete armies and collection, and then look at the now obscenely expensive all FW resin Middle Earth range and decide...

"Well, I'm never going to pay these new prices for the newly remastered FW resin range, which means I can't complete my armies, collections, my WIP projects or the projects I wanted to do and started planning but haven't got round to yet, so the wisest and most economical thing to do is to abandon my incomplete SBG collection and sell it off so I can move on to other more affordable games that I can afford to continue investing in over the long term as GW has reached my breaking point".

Those games for me are SAGA, This is Not a Test and Frostgrave. All of which have a much more open community and selection of miniature ranges on offer, you aren't limited to one single extremely expensive range of miniatures. You can buy and use miniatures from a wide range of companies that cooperate and collaborate together, and when you go to tournaments your army won't be banned because you've used 3rd party miniatures.

Lately over the last year, I've been working on several Fallout armies for This is Not a Test. I have miniatures from countless retailers, Brother Vinni, Hasslefree, Worlds End, Pig Iron Productions, Brigade Miniatures, Wargames Factory.

Ditto for SAGA - Gripping Beast, Wargames Factory, Footsore Miniatures.

As for Frostgrave, I haven't started playing that, but I could re purpose a lot of the Hasslefree miniatures I got for D&D and some of my LOTR miniatures.

There have been several complaints that somehow 50 bucks for 12 resin FW dwarves is price gouging or ridiculously overpriced compared to the rest of the line, when those arguments have been proven to be demonstrably false. They are cheaper than the metal LOTR miniatures and they are half the price of the Finecast miniatures. Anyone that plays Feifdoms, Gundabad, Laketown, Mirkwood (soldiers), or fields warbands of specialists troops such as Abrakhan Guard, Watchers of Karna, Mordor Uruk-Hai, Blackshields, Black Numenoreans, Black Guard, and a neverending list of models only available in metal and Finecast can attest to this simple fact.

Who the feth is talking about the 12 Dwarves? We're talking about DAIN, which is £15 more expensive than its closest existing equivalents (Azog and Bolg).

I had to take a step back and realize that the last couple pages have been people complaining that LOTR/Hobbit SBG, which has had no new releases for several years, is now getting new models and a new sourcebook (this month!) and the thread is littered with complaints. Good job everyone!

Oh **** off. We're complaining that GW is taking two steps forward and one step back. They very nearly killed the SBG with their soaring prices and lack of support/releases over several years, and now they're repeating one of those two mistakes once again.

Stop looking at this from such a blinkered black & white absolutist perspective. Just because we're unhappy with the prices of the new releases, doesn't mean that we're complaining that GW has brought out new releases. Hell, on Facebook I'm singing the praises of the new releases and complimenting people's painting, the new miniatures are fantastic. I do like the new miniatures. But just because I like them doesn't mean I have to accept the absurd prices and shut up.

I'm exercising my right as a consumer to withhold a purchase and voice my reason why.