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OgreChubbs wrote:
snip

People can't accept blame. It's hard to accept blame for your own failures so people have to make up stories. It's kind of pathetic really but it's how people are.

-----

Odd as it is I know a girl from Toronto on here that agrees with what you generally say. She hates how women are treated in the middle east though. I hear Toronto has plenty of people that would be considered right wing. They do seem to love their health care system though.

I still wonder why she won't move to Michigan. We love hockey here too. Our weather is about the same. Really the only difference is health care and sorta more right wing. That said Michigan is the state with fairly high unemployment. Only a few hours away from Toronto though.

-----

Anyway I'm gonna go play some computer games (xcom 2). I fully expect this thread to go the way most SJW threads go on Dakka (getting locked). Hopefully in the future the whole thing can die over for both groups and we can accept each other more again. Shame how much these threads tend to break people apart.

Was brought up on another forum I read as well. Someone found this and it sounds like it might be the court case she's referenced.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/taking-a-stand-against-abuse-284204591.html

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wyrd Response via Nathan Caroland (owner)

--to bring her on board to be the Woman's Ambassador to Gaming--

But then she'd have diplomatic immunity!

Pity the OP couldn't come up with a more specific title, preferably one that is a little less flame-baiting.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I fully expect this thread to go the way most SJW threads go on Dakka (getting locked).

You know why these threads get locked? Because certain posters love to generalize. What happens then is the forum equivalent of this:
This piles on for a while, and then other users jump in, sometimes to try and de-generalize, sometimes to take up a contrarian viewpoint...and the thread degenerates until the mods have to step in, edit here, delete there, issue a few warnings, suspend a user or two....

So, let's try this: Next time I see a user use "SJW" in a manner I consider pejorative, I'm banning them from the OT for a month. No other warnings.

What I see in the OP is the usual Internet flaming that is a side effect of giving absolutely everyone relatively easy access to a platform to speak from.

But why did it deserve its own thread? What useful discussion can we add other than 'some people are sadly sorely misguided, shake your head and move on'?

looks like not having the "right" politics kill freedom of speech
Just like on Facebook and Twitter if you cut out a mans tongue you only prove you fear what he may say.

Oldmike wrote:
Sadly the uk is just as bad if not worse some have made a job out of exposing the SJW types and all the biggest ones are from UK. After all the BBC ran a program that stated men are raised to hate women. Sadly it was not a joke.

Nah, this whole obsession for SJWs thing seems like a pretty US based thing to me. If the BBC did a programme on this I would be certain that it was looking at the issue rather than promoting a viewpoint. Of course you could link to said programme and we can see.

To be honest this is barmy right up there with the DnD made a devil worshipper stuff you used to get back in the day.

@Janthkin: Didn't say it to offend really. It's just an easy abbreviation for what they seem to be about. I could say feminist instead I suppose. The other just seemed easier to type with caps lock on.

Some good UK based guys are
http://www.youtube.com/user/SargonofAkkad100

Thou more MRA then SJW
http://www.youtube.com/user/DoctorRandomercam

From the UK but no longer lives their
http://www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t

The BBC episode was about a year ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0dZIQZIfkg

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
@Janthkin: Didn't say it to offend really. It's just an easy abbreviation for what they seem to be about. I could say feminist instead I suppose. The other just seemed easier to type with caps lock on.

See thing is then you get NAFALT or you hate women. I think it's the shoe fits deal or lack of experience with the authoritarian left.

You guys might want to watch out. I wouldn't want to make a mod angry after they say not to do something.

I disagree with the feminist approach by a lot but the extremists on their side are just awful. The more moderate feminists aren't too bad though. I'd go into more detail but it might cause a conflict on the boards and I'm really more in the mood to play computer games with a friend right now than to have a fruitless argument.

 djones520 wrote:

Ok, having actually read through that... I'm about 100% positive that it's all made up.

I'm with you. I didn't read it all, only glanced over it. 100% made up.

Even the flimsiest, most meaningless blog entry is useful ammunition if you're always wanting to be outraged about something and need a quick fix of butthurt.

Does anyone remember on the eve of the 2008 election, there was a lady who claimed she was mugged by a black dude, who then stopped to carve a B on cheek, and then told her she now had to vote for Obama. It was a crazy hoax, of course.

At the time people made a lot of noise that this was such a clear indication of a racist freak out about the increasingly likely election of black man to the Whitehouse. It wasn't, it was just a lone crazy woman who made up stories in which she fantasized about being persecuted. In the end the woman received a suspended sentence for filing a false complaint, in exchange for psychiatric care. Because she was obviously gakbox crazy.

This crazy lady is the same. So are the MRA guys. They're all just crazies living very weird fantasies out over the internet.

The only reason they get any attention at all is because people like to use them to attack the greater social movements they're loosely attached to. Really we should just look at these people, shake our heads and file them away in the same place that we put the people who think they're elves and dragons.

Unfortunately, my local gaming groups seem to be swallowing this in it's entirety. But then there's a reason I withdrew from it some time ago.

Here's the thing. They want us to take action when we see something not ok. While I'm sure there's things we'd all agree are not ok, who is the arbiter of the grey? If some Tublrina decides that Kaya's midriff is too sexy, that Lilith's push up armour objectifies her or Deneghra's 'female armour' (insert you own particular gaming lines sexy models here) is triggering or inappropriate? That Bombadier Bombshell is blatantly sexist! What happens then? Seriously, forget all the stuff in the article for a moment- we all agree that's terrible- that's clearly in the black. But what about the grey? What do we do when someone complains that those Infinity models are too sexualised? What if someone decides they don't like the fact that I made the chained guy pulling my Vessel of Judgement black?

What happens when someone complains your models upset them?

 sebster wrote:
file them away in the same place that we put the people who think they're elves and dragons.

You know who else filed away elves and dragons? SAURON! Obviously you support the construction of ominously named monolithic structures, and spreading darkness across the land

That story seems a bit unlikely, to say the least. I could believe some of the individual things have happened in some form, but all of them to one person? And why just in gaming circles? Surely there are sexist, racist and right-up criminal persons elsewhere too?

I've gamed for 26 or so years with a large group of guys and not so few girls either and not a single problem of this type. In fact, once we guys started playing the little sister of one of us started her own group with some of her friends after a few games with us. They didn't abandon the hobby despite starting it with a bunch of presumably horny 18-year old guys. The only really strange comment I've heard a (guest star) female player make was about our resident Mr. Money last summer, and it wasn't a complaint about his behavior. She just found him to be "frighteningly normal".

And ofc, anyone running a FLGS here is more than happy to see women walk in through the door. It means sales of novels and Japanese comics which is a large part of the selection these days. No matter how many plastic figures he's bought a guy who accosts girls in the shop will not be doing it for long. Some older shopkeeper might still harbor prejudice against Romani and not everyone is fond of foreign-looking people but times are hard and any business is good business...

Hmm. I suspect some posters above are correct - the game angle is just a tool to make an attack against the evil white man and his dominance.

 AduroT wrote:
Was brought up on another forum I read as well. Someone found this and it sounds like it might be the court case she's referenced.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/taking-a-stand-against-abuse-284204591.html

What happened to "Not all nerds are like this. Most people manage a healthy divide between fantasy and reality," and what there is now, a campaign claiming all white men are terrorists, and that if you're not with her, you're against all women? I guess that's what happens when you're socialising in a echo chamber with your SJW women and 'genderqueer' friends who seem to have an axe to grind.

So she won a precedent setting human rights case against an attacker? Good for her, and that means that there should be a public record of this that a casual observer could read.

 AduroT wrote:
Was brought up on another forum I read as well. Someone found this and it sounds like it might be the court case she's referenced.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/taking-a-stand-against-abuse-284204591.html

Edit: It was already linked earlier in thread, apologies.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You guys might want to watch out. I wouldn't want to make a mod angry after they say not to do something.

I disagree with the feminist approach by a lot but the extremists on their side are just awful. The more moderate feminists aren't too bad though. I'd go into more detail but it might cause a conflict on the boards and I'm really more in the mood to play computer games with a friend right now than to have a fruitless argument.

If you post in off topic forum you probably will receive a ban eventually. The mods are very openative here and ban anyone who disagrees or they deem goes against their point of view.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
In many ways I hate the 2012 time period onward. Maybe the world really did end in a sense and now we're living a trigger happy SJW world. Sad thing is there are places in the world where women do have it bad as well as race and religion. Pretty sure this is what the First World Problems Meme started existing for. What's sad is that real struggles happen (people dying from terrorist attacks for example) and in comparison these people's problems are a joke in comparison.

This post is a good example of why many people feel they need to be so strident in combating gender and race problems:

- Equating first world problem memes, generally all along the lines of "The pizza box doesn't fit in the fridge," with genderized and racial harassment, assault, rape, murder, etc., is to assert these as trivial problems, which is pretty offensive and small minded.

- It is definitely unfortunate that many people are killed quite frequently in terrorist actions, almost entirely in parts of the world not covered in western media. That hardly seems to justify the overwhelming volume of harassment women endure online, the shocking commonality of rape and assault, and so on.

We COULD live in a world where people are both not killed by terrorists and not raped in substantial numbers. But not treating the latter as a real problem is part of what enables it to be so.

 Kojiro wrote:
Here's the thing. They want us to take action when we see something not ok. While I'm sure there's things we'd all agree are not ok, who is the arbiter of the grey? If some Tublrina decides that Kaya's midriff is too sexy, that Lilith's push up armour objectifies her or Deneghra's 'female armour' (insert you own particular gaming lines sexy models here) is triggering or inappropriate? That Bombadier Bombshell is blatantly sexist! What happens then? Seriously, forget all the stuff in the article for a moment- we all agree that's terrible- that's clearly in the black. But what about the grey? What do we do when someone complains that those Infinity models are too sexualised? What if someone decides they don't like the fact that I made the chained guy pulling my Vessel of Judgement black?

What happens when someone complains your models upset them?

Just having an environment where people can raise those issues and have a discussion about it is probably the approach. If someone feels a model is offensive and you can have a real discussion about it, then there's an avenue to figure out what that entails. Maybe they don't feel it so strongly as to be an issue. Maybe it really is a problem and other people will agree and determine some course of action. I would guess in some of these examples, what people really want is just an acknowledgement of the issue. Are some Infinity models unfortunately sexualised? Probably a lot of people, men and women, would agree with that. But that isn't the same as wanting them banned or anything like that. Gray issues can be arbitrated the same way they always have to be: By coming to some consensus. There's no magic oracle out there to give a definitive response. The key is to build a community that isn't trying to force everything into black and white.

For a non-gender, non-race (well, mostly) example, one of the 40k players in our community has an extremely well modeled Guard army very overtly themed around Nazis and child soldiers. Is that offensive? I don't actually know or have a strong opinion myself, but there's been friendly discussion along those lines. So at a minimum, if someone did have a real problem with it, our community and environment (and that player) would seem to be open to and supportive of bringing it up, rather than outright quashing and ignoring like gender issues in gaming so frequently are. That in itself is a big step and would ameliorate a lot of these issues, just recognizing that they are issues.

Something about this article seems kind of fishy....

I mean, sexism does exist,its a sad fact, but to have this level of sexism on an apparently daily basis and ignored by the authorities as well? Doesn't smell right.

 djones520 wrote:


The post was made on TUMBLR...

I think this explains a lot. I have a friend. Genuinely nice guy, but about once a week he posts a link to some blog or other on facebook and has a rant about "SJW this" "Feminazi that".

People need to remember, there are about 7.2 billion people in the world. About 40% of them have internet access. That means around 2.9 billion people have the ability to post whatever the hell they like on the internet.

Some people need to learn, just because someone posts something and managed to pass it through a spell checker does not mean it is well thought out, widely believe, in anyway to be listened to or even true.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You guys might want to watch out. I wouldn't want to make a mod angry after they say not to do something.

I disagree with the feminist approach by a lot but the extremists on their side are just awful. The more moderate feminists aren't too bad though. I'd go into more detail but it might cause a conflict on the boards and I'm really more in the mood to play computer games with a friend right now than to have a fruitless argument.

If you post in off topic forum you probably will receive a ban eventually. The mods are very openative here and ban anyone who disagrees or they deem goes against their point of view.

As someone who's been in OT for far too long and yet haven't ever been banned despite disagreeing with moderators, perhaps you should try not being an donkeycave?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You guys might want to watch out. I wouldn't want to make a mod angry after they say not to do something.

I disagree with the feminist approach by a lot but the extremists on their side are just awful. The more moderate feminists aren't too bad though. I'd go into more detail but it might cause a conflict on the boards and I'm really more in the mood to play computer games with a friend right now than to have a fruitless argument.

If you post in off topic forum you probably will receive a ban eventually. The mods are very openative here and ban anyone who disagrees or they deem goes against their point of view.

As someone who's been in OT for far too long and yet haven't ever been banned despite disagreeing with moderators, perhaps you should try not being an donkeycave?

I've been here 7 years and haven't yet been banned that i can remember. I think you might be doing something wrong.

From the article:

I am thirteen years old and in a game store for the first time. I examine their selection of dice and take them to the counter to pay.

“How old are you?” asks the balding, middle-aged man behind the counter.

“Thirteen.”

“Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed!” he chuckles in glee. The Warhammer 40K gamers at the table behind him take up the refrain. “Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed! Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed!”

My daughter is 13. She enjoys gaming (asked to play Battle Lore last night to celebrate her last night of Spring Break. She beat me.) and paints figures and has been helping me with basing and terrain for a few years at this point. She has gone to gaming conventions (and played several games at them) and game stores, but as she is a kid, it is always with me. I cannot imagine anyone talking to a 13 year old girl like that, and wonder (assuming it is true) where the hell the parents were. I would have been in the face of anyone who came close to that level of disgusting behavior towards a kid even if it was not my kid. If someone acted like that towards my daughter, they would definitely understand I did not approve of that behavior.

 CptJake wrote:
From the article:

I am thirteen years old and in a game store for the first time. I examine their selection of dice and take them to the counter to pay.

“How old are you?” asks the balding, middle-aged man behind the counter.

“Thirteen.”

“Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed!” he chuckles in glee. The Warhammer 40K gamers at the table behind him take up the refrain. “Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed! Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed!”

My daughter is 13. She enjoys gaming (asked to play Battle Lore last night to celebrate her last night of Spring Break. She beat me.) and paints figures and has been helping me with basing and terrain for a few years at this point. She has gone to gaming conventions (and played several games at them) and game stores, but as she is a kid, it is always with me. I cannot imagine anyone talking to a 13 year old girl like that, and wonder (assuming it is true) where the hell the parents were. I would have been in the face of anyone who came close to that level of disgusting behavior towards a kid even if it was not my kid. If someone acted like that towards my daughter, they would definitely understand I did not approve of that behavior.

That doesn't sound like a real thing that actually occurred. Every time my wife or daughter was in a game or comic store, all the little nurglings lost the ability to speak, or even make eye contact, much less start a chant-a- thon.

The sad thing is there are definitely scum out there like that. I've never met someone who would say something like that to a 13 year old, let alone lead a chant of it with all the other players, but it's not outside the realms of possibility (just absurdly unlikely).

That all of these things just keep happening to this person who has been driven out of 3 wargaming communities...

Also which edition of Battlelore?

 MrDwhitey wrote:
The sad thing is there are definitely scum out there like that. I've never met someone who would say something like that to a 13 year old, let alone lead a chant of it with all the other players, but it's not outside the realms of possibility (just absurdly unlikely).

That all of these things just keep happening to this person who has been driven out of 3 wargaming communities...

Also which edition of Battlelore?

There are enough bastards in the world that I could see the first comment, until the dad comes in and beats the out of the guy.

The chant-a-thon however is ridiculous.

Yes, it does read a lot like /r/thathappened material.

And most likely is, I see no proof of it happening so I'll assume the most likely event.