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 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Best idea?
Plan out your army and budget. NO IMPULSE BUYS. that is what will kill you.

Yup. So many gamers seem to forget that you can budget your purchases and that you don't need to buy 3,000 points of miniatures in one go.

That being said though, if you're planning to buy a lot of the stuff from Forge World (unique Legion units, Primarchs & other FW models) it can be cheaper to bulk buy it in one go that to make multiple small orders every couple of months.

Never forget that shipping can kill your wallet, too. If you know what you want it's better to try and buy it all in one go (even if it means waiting a few months to have the funds for it) or to combine your order with a friend's (or multiple friends) to save on shipping.

you can save alot off ebay and stuff.

A thought also is that you could buy that new "renegade" box set. The FAQ lets you use the warden and stuff. But you would need Book 4 + Codex: Knights to use them. If you can wait for the imperial Army Red book thow, that would have a updated Knight House hold list in it, meaning only one book to use them.

That's the only issue I have with BaC. Yes, I'm glad 30k is more accessible. I'm not glad that 75% of 30k armies are identical core models with different paint jobs.

A quick question.

Where is this new boxed set i'm hearing about?

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
A quick question.

Where is this new boxed set i'm hearing about?

New "Board game" from GW. It's a Knight Paladin/Errant, Knight Warden and a Sanctum Imperialis. It then has the rules from white dwarf for "Godbreaker Clash" with added missions to play.
The contents can be seen here in the spoiler tag.

Price wise it's costs slightly more then if you were to buy a Warden and Sanctum Imperialis, and you get a Knight Paladin/Errant for "free".

Thanks friend, looks pretty awesome

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Thanks friend, looks pretty awesome

I need more terrain, So I'm hoping i might be able to pick some of thows buildings up cheap from people buying the bundle for the two knights.

I feel bad for saying this, but I'm looking to start a 30K army soon, and I want to avoid BaC like the plague. I don't want my army to be the same as everyone else's!

I'm personally considering Imperial Fists, Space Wolves or White Scars, depending on which is more interesting to paint.

Well sorry to say BaC is the only cheap way to get an instant start on a 30k army.

If you have 40k marines bits you can customize your army more, but lets face it, 30k is basically a civil war with both armies fielding mostly the same stuff just in different colors.

If you want to be special snowflake army then spend money or spend a lot of time converting is basically your options.

To me a marine is a marine--paint job/color, decals, and basing are really the differences between a nice looking army and a crap one. You can be spendy and sub in unique shoulders an such if you really want but decals done right are just as nice IMO and much less costly.

The only real difference in the armies is heraldry and unique units so armor set to me isn't an issue MK IV was issued to about everyone and hell the war last long enough you can use about any to be honest.

For WB you can use a lot of 40k stuff and still be in line with Fluff and look for others you need to lean more on 30k specific items or convert/build yourself.

Again tho BaC is the best deal from GW in a long time---2 BaC sets will easily get you all the marines you need plus HQs, terminators, and dreadnoughts...all you need to add is some vehicles---quick examples-

HQ slots-
2x terminators- whatever you want really with some bits and conversion work.
2x Power armer/artificer/jump pack HQs- whatever you want really with some conversion work/bits

Troops-
2x 10-20 man squads with options in the box to kit out your SGTs
2x up to 6 man melta/6 man plasma special wpn units

Elites-
2x 5 man terminator squads- buy/use bits to custom the way you want.
2x 10 man veteran squads w/ Hvy bolters
2x contemptors---one dual fists, one duel assault cannons is how I did mine

Heavy support-
up to a 6x missile launcher squad from 2 sets or 6x heavy bolters if you don't put them in vet squads.

So you easily have a playable with options force from just 2 BaC sets all you need is a couple vehicles to hit competitive right off.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I feel bad for saying this, but I'm looking to start a 30K army soon, and I want to avoid BaC like the plague. I don't want my army to be the same as everyone else's!

I'm personally considering Imperial Fists, Space Wolves or White Scars, depending on which is more interesting to paint.

Then you'll pretty much have to bite down and save up for the FW units. There really is no other inexpensive way into getting into Legiones Astartes. Well, you could just scavenge up a bunch if plastic MK.6 parts but that's a dammed headache haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Toofast wrote:
That's the only issue I have with BaC. Yes, I'm glad 30k is more accessible. I'm not glad that 75% of 30k armies are identical core models with different paint jobs.

Well. This game is about space marines figting space marines. That's pretty much what it's going to be like no matter what.

And tactical squads are just more of a thing in 30K. You're going to need them.

Depending on the army you play, you may even get some real mileage out of tacticals beyond objective sitting. As a WE player, mine can do some work. Especially with the new Exhortation of Butchery rule and Gahlan Surlak's Master of Inductii ability.

Griddlelol wrote:I feel bad for saying this, but I'm looking to start a 30K army soon, and I want to avoid BaC like the plague. I don't want my army to be the same as everyone else's!

May I suggest an Army that isnt Space Marines then? Because the cost of getting into Space Marines with just FW parts is ridiculously high. Not only that, but most of the Legions use Mk IV armor of some sort anyway and at least one (Imperial Fists) has Mk IV in addition to their Mk III. So either buy BaC and Legion Upgrade kits, wait and see if there is a Mk III box coming out this year from GW or do the Mechanicum. The Mechanicum is cheap compared to the Legions (for Forgeworld parts only armies).

save up for a few months: get some different armor mark (or the upgrade kits to use on a Calth box to make it stand out)


Most people seem to have forgotten: People built 30k armies at a decent rate BEFORE Calth was out what I did was something along these lines:


1) start with the praetor kit, and 4-6 kits of whatever Mark of armour you like ( MK III in my case)
2) from there, save for a while (paint up your dudes), and then in your next order, finish off your 2 tactical squads (or 2-4 more armour sets) as well as your first special thing: a dread, rapier, or legion specific unit
3) again, paint those, save up, get your primarch + special stuff or whatever units are catching your eyes.

@victorvontzeentch most legions used MK IV yes, but since it was so hard to produce and largley distributed by horus: traitors would field more, and even then DG and IH used MK III leagues more than they used MK IV. the same MK III info applies to IF, IH, Salamanders, Wolves, TS (to a point), and many other legions. MK IV was newest, and still fairly uncommon, MK II was arguably more common, with a large number of MK III as well.

I get the 'dislike' of Calth to an extent (I mean I did buy a few to bulk out my legions): while the armies are already set to be visually similar (everyone being marines in the legions and all that) Calth almost compounded that by making it almost rare to see something other then MK IV armour in certain places, even when it makes less sense to use said MK IV ("Oh? this is my Iron warriors siege force in all MK IV.") Now, I don't think it's fair to think less of someone who uses a lot of Calth models, but I also think it's a bit unfair to say calth is the ONLY way to play an affordable 30k army. Spacing out the purchases helps big time in keeping the cost manageable, and I'd personally think doing your army in this manner would make it look a bit better when played in a location that has 3 calth box armies. (it also arguably plays better deppending on how the calth box was assembled)

Most of the Legions from a model stand point use the Mk IV. For the sake of the discussion on BaC I dont care about what they say in the fluff, just the options avalible

Alpha Legion, Blood Angels, Emperor's Children, Ultras, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Tsons, SoH, SW (One of the upgrades show was all Mk IV)

Salamanders (Have Mk IV heads but only Mk III torsos) and Imperial Fists are shown model wise with a Mix of Mk III and IV.

IH and DG have Mk III

IW, DA, WS, WE all have Mk II.

Raven Guard have Mk VI

All of those Legions with out Mk IV upgrades, still look good on the Mk IV legs and arms of BaC.

Additionally nothing about the IW having Mk IV in a seige force makes no sense, its a Legion with high attrition, its gonna use what ever it can get its hands on.


It is great, that you can afford to buy all FW Mk III armor, if I didn't have about a million other hobbies I liked to spend money on I could too. But not everyone could for various reasons afford to start 30k before Calth. Im not saying the armies weren't built at a good rate before anyway. Im just pointing out that this elitest "To hell with BaC." attitude alot of Veteran 30k players have is getting as much out of hand as all the people playing MSU built and painted straight out of the box cookie cutter armies.

Both attitudes do not bode well for the game.

If you want to avoid expensive models i would reccomend Imperial Militia, it will cost less to build a full army because they are cheaper even when you need tons they are absolutely fantastic! I honestly love mine and it gives so much variety in the one army list through the provences that you can build anything you would like.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

It is great, that you can afford to buy all FW Mk III armor, if I didn't have about a million other hobbies I liked to spend money on I could too. But not everyone could for various reasons afford to start 30k before Calth. Im not saying the armies weren't built at a good rate before anyway. Im just pointing out that this elitest "To hell with BaC." attitude alot of Veteran 30k players have is getting as much out of hand as all the people playing MSU built and painted straight out of the box cookie cutter armies.

Both attitudes do not bode well for the game.

I haven't seen much 'to hell with calth' but I'm noticing even newer players are tired of looking at calth only armies. Like I pointed out, I'm not anti-calth (again, I bought 2, and have parts from 2 more ) and I haven't seen much anti-calth beyond this individual thread, and I'm leaning towards thinking that it's a mix of people showing other ways to build their army, and (as I mentioned before) people who want to see some variety in legion armies. :(

My iron warriors is mostly mkiii on 25mm bases. I mostly still focus on mkiii from FW. I love BaC because it means more people to play 30k with.

I also don't mind mixing the plastic MKIV with my left over mkiii and mkii parts to bulk out bolter goons for my tac squads. It works for iron warriors.

It doesn't help that BaC marines have a limited range of poses so the minis tend to look alike.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

It is great, that you can afford to buy all FW Mk III armor, if I didn't have about a million other hobbies I liked to spend money on I could too. But not everyone could for various reasons afford to start 30k before Calth. Im not saying the armies weren't built at a good rate before anyway. Im just pointing out that this elitest "To hell with BaC." attitude alot of Veteran 30k players have is getting as much out of hand as all the people playing MSU built and painted straight out of the box cookie cutter armies.

Both attitudes do not bode well for the game.

I haven't seen much 'to hell with calth' but I'm noticing even newer players are tired of looking at calth only armies. Like I pointed out, I'm not anti-calth (again, I bought 2, and have parts from 2 more ) and I haven't seen much anti-calth beyond this individual thread, and I'm leaning towards thinking that it's a mix of people showing other ways to build their army, and (as I mentioned before) people who want to see some variety in legion armies. :(

You gotta think, for people that are around a bit, its not gonna seem massively Anti-this or that, but when someone comes by and take a glance, even the slightest about out "I'm tired of seeing this." will quickly turn into them thinking everyone is being elitist. Its like how some people think we (any number of us) that jump into a thread about how to build and army and we instantly go dont be WAAC! they think that is elitist. Tone on the internet is a difficult thing to perceive, and many people auto jump to a negative connotation.

I too, inspite of the tone of my last post, do not like the concept of a BaC army straight out the box with out so much as the Legion Shoulder Pads, even that small level of additional detail helps break armies up from the sea of cookie cutter armies with a different splash of paint. But we have to remember, for alot of the cookie cutters, that is their first step onto the road of Legion building. And rather than the implied tone of "This is bad!" Maybe more encouragement of it being a great start, and how maybe they should look into getting Legion Upgrades for their next squad, or throwing in more of (X) Legion's preferred Mark of Armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It doesn't help that BaC marines have a limited range of poses so the minis tend to look alike.

The statement which can be applied to any of FW or GW's models.

Back kits make a good core but soon as you start adding people evolving with more legion specials, slow growth in extra pads, new armour sets like mk3 they will soon evolve past that.

 Lockark wrote:
My iron warriors is mostly mkiii on 25mm bases. I mostly still focus on mkiii from FW. I love BaC because it means more people to play 30k with.

This.

Another point I thought about is that the Box-Dreads are in the 30k list, and they are actully quite nice. The box mortis is just as good as the contemptor version for shooting, but quite cheaper. They also can buy AC. Just convert from the plastic kits and your gold.

 Lockark wrote:
Another point I thought about is that the Box-Dreads are in the 30k list, and they are actully quite nice. The box mortis is just as good as the contemptor version for shooting, but quite cheaper. They also can buy AC. Just convert from the plastic kits and your gold.

Other things box dreads do better:
1) spamming
2) flamestorm cannons (S: 6 AP: 3 flamers ahoy!)
3) missile launchers
4) leagues cheaper (so long as they don't have the 1st company sigil thing, you can use dreads straight from the box)

Source: owning 6 dreads (soon to be 9. GO FURY OF THE ANCIENTS), 3 contemptors, and 3 leviathans

1st company sigil? You mean the cross? Why can't dreads have those?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
1st company sigil? You mean the cross? Why can't dreads have those?

as far as I've been told (and can remember) it was a post heresy thing (though I think Imperial fists had something similar)

I'm a poor college student, at least for the next month. (I'm graduating!) How I've gotten through building up my stuff has been through extensive conversion, penny pinching, buying used and stripping, and reconditioning rogue trader models. I paid for my castallax by collecting aluminium cans for a school year. Totally worth it.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I feel bad for saying this, but I'm looking to start a 30K army soon, and I want to avoid BaC like the plague. I don't want my army to be the same as everyone else's!

I'm personally considering Imperial Fists, Space Wolves or White Scars, depending on which is more interesting to paint.

Well, you could do imperial fists with just regular MK7 plastic 40k marines, since they had the most suits of it! Wolves are also pretty easy to do using 40k bits as their armour is hidden somewhat by their wolfy stuff.

Also, too with regular marine bits and then just ordering third party heads or torsos works really well for heresy - try Maxmini Steam Knight heads (if you order direct from them you can have multiples of one type) or anything from Anvil Industry's Exo Lords range.

I have a whole mini Word Bearer/ allied force made out of, basically, spare parts. Anvil legs, MK4 torsos and pauldrons, Maxmini heads, regular plastic arms with old chaos boltguns. They look totally heresytastic!!!

Speaking of "off-brand" stuff and saving moneys, in HH Book 5 (IIRC) there is an army list for Imperial Militia and Cults. This army list could probably be among the cheapest way to get into 30k, because here we are talking about a basic human template, so any number of model sources could work really well.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
1st company sigil? You mean the cross? Why can't dreads have those?

as far as I've been told (and can remember) it was a post heresy thing (though I think Imperial fists had something similar)

The *curvy* Crux Terminatus found on the plastic Indomitus Terminators and the plastic Space Marine Command Squad is post-Heresy, it represents the (supposed) sacrifice of an Imperial Fist Terminator during the Emperor's battle with Horus (as well as training in Terminator armour).

The squarer Crux Terminatus which you get in the Dreadnought (both regular and venerable) is more of a grey area, as it's closer in style to the 'codex' squad marking for a veteran squad, which was in use with a number of legions during the Heresy & Great Crusade (you get it on the Luna Wolf, Iron Warrior and Death Guard transfer sheets)

This thread has been an inspiration to me.