RevisedChaos Marine Supplements -- 1st rules leaks

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**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Icculus wrote:
The one power that gets me for a Rules as Written issue is the new psychic power for the Sorcerers.

There is one sentence in there, it says: "The unit cannot be locked in combat"

The way it is stated makes it sound like a requirement, like you may not target a unit already locked in combat. However, it doesnt say that. It says. The unit cannot be locked in combat. As though the power prevents that unit from being locked in combat for the duration of the power. So you can shoot with them, but then in the subsequent assault phase you may not charge them

I doubt anyone would play it that way, but on my first reading of it, I was a little confused.

It hasn't even been released yet, and already, it needs a FAQ to clear up confusion!

Sometimes I love GW for the comedy value it provides

**General Kroll**

Runic wrote:
Munga wrote:
So many people trying to be downers.

Just ignore 'em. Being a downer hardly changes anything anyway. It would be interesting to see a release that wouldn't cause that. So far one has not existed. It doesn't matter if its powerful or underpowered. Spoiler: Such a release simply doesn't exist.

Personally I will make some use of the new supplements and build a fairly competitive Chaos force one way or another, there are a lot of books to look for options. I will do just fine, and I will have fun.

Agreed, they really are damned if they do and damned if they don't with some people on here. I've seen a bunch of people moaning that it's not powerful enough, a bunch that it's too powerful and the orks and guard got left out as a result, a bunch saying it's just right, and the usual bunch saying it cost too much.

It's like frigging goldilocks and the three bears in here.

**Runic**

General Kroll wrote:
It's like frigging goldilocks and the three bears in here.

You succesfully spilled my coffee.

**General Kroll**

Runic wrote:
General Kroll wrote:
It's like frigging goldilocks and the three bears in here.

You succesfully spilled my coffee.

Coffee is for heretics. Good.

**Nordicus**

General Kroll wrote:
Runic wrote:
General Kroll wrote:
It's like frigging goldilocks and the three bears in here.

You succesfully spilled my coffee.

Coffee is for heretics. Good.

That certainly explains my 5-cups-a-day-rule

**Kaiyanwang**

Nordicus wrote:

That certainly explains my 5-cups-a-day-rule

Amatuer.

New rules can always be a nice thing, and we know CSM are in dire need. Nonetheless, I am a bit concerned because I doubt the data-slates and whatnot can address the basic problems of the codex like overpriced units, lack of synergy, CoS rule, lack of delivery systems.

Is not negativity for the sake of it - if your doctor says your diet lacks of vitamins, you do not fix the issue eating cheese and sausages. But let's see.

**pepsuber**

Only 5 cups? Pfft weakling.

In all seriousness though, I wonder what the Crimson slaughter rules will be, Im pretty sure it will invovle cultists. They have their own box coming out and all.

**Sidstyler**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Icculus wrote:
The one power that gets me for a Rules as Written issue is the new psychic power for the Sorcerers.

There is one sentence in there, it says: "The unit cannot be locked in combat"

The way it is stated makes it sound like a requirement, like you may not target a unit already locked in combat. However, it doesnt say that. It says. The unit cannot be locked in combat. As though the power prevents that unit from being locked in combat for the duration of the power. So you can shoot with them, but then in the subsequent assault phase you may not charge them

I doubt anyone would play it that way, but on my first reading of it, I was a little confused.

It hasn't even been released yet, and already, it needs a FAQ to clear up confusion!

Sometimes I love GW for the comedy value it provides

I figured it was obvious that the reason it says "the unit cannot be locked in combat" is because the whole point of the ability is to resolve a shooting attack with an enemy unit, and you can't make shooting attacks when locked in combat.

People are trying too hard to make this gak confusing, and others are just rules lawyering the gak out of it to help ensure that whatever little buff CSM could have gotten from this is completely lost, and they stay right where they are: in the fething trash.

**General Kroll**

Kaiyanwang wrote:
if your doctor says your diet lacks of vitamins, you do not fix the issue eating cheese and sausages. But let's see.

Speak for yourself! Sausages for the sausage God! Cheese for the cheese throne!

**Kaiyanwang**

General Kroll wrote:
Kaiyanwang wrote:
if your doctor says your diet lacks of vitamins, you do not fix the issue eating cheese and sausages. But let's see.

Speak for yourself! Sausages for the sausage God! Cheese for the cheese throne!

Pellagra, Overcosted sorcerer champions forced to challenge, Scurvy, Berserkers failing to be threatening in melee, Rickets, chaos marines seldom selected as troops in the CSM codex, Beri-Beri, over-representation of the mark of Nurgle because the others are nonfunctional unless a specific combo is deployed.

None of these is a good thing.

**Nordicus**

pepsuber wrote:
Only 5 cups? Pfft weakling.

Kaiyanwang wrote:
Amatuer. .

I didn't say how much was in the cup

**gungo**

Zanderchief wrote:
What bs this is!

They release this at the same time as giving the loyalist even more buffs!

Ok so we don't know all the details but we do no that its two sperate releases that the loyalists get in one bundle!

I, like many, bought the original books and now to update would have to buy both again. They could have shoved all this in to one book for the same price as the snowflake brigade book!

Until we get an actual book with new sculpts then my Black Legion army will have no money or time spent on it.

Waaagh ghazskull was a free digital download update. I don't see how the chaos ones are any different.
On the flip side this is literally the third reprinting of some of the space marine rules with each iteration having something new forcing you to buy it again. They went from montka, to individual mini dexs, to a combined space marine dex. Now that's being screwed for someone who now ha to buy all 3.

**avedominusnox**

http://www.spikeybits.com/2016/04/breaking-new-chaos-wargear-spotted.html
This came up a bit earlier. It doesn't contain anything in particular. Artifacts have the same name and points costs. We only need to get the rules. The most important thing is that as per the limits per army you can take as many as you want in your list. You can't duplicate. Which is pretty amazing regarding the other books.
Correction, as per this http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?20775-Chaos-Space-Marines-Rumor-Roundup/page2 the artifacts remain the same.

**Huron black heart**

Well at the very least my opponent has more to think about when facing my force, even if I ultimately choose not to take any of the new stuff.
That being said I like the Cabal's new power

**avedominusnox**

The BLs artifacts were ok. So it's not a big thing that they remained the same. The +1 ML is ok, and sunburst is cool. Not perfect though. Still the cabal gives amazing potential.

**Carnikang**

I mean, it's nice to see they acknowledge that CSM still exist other than as a spooky punching bag, but my collection of power armor won't expand until Chaos gets an actual update.

But, the formations look okay for use. They don't look overpowered (like some) nor do they look like a cast for the broken leg that is the Codex. But we'll see how they play once its released.

**SonsofVulkan**

Those sorcerers conclave look nasty, put them on bikes gives them 42" threat range without LOS. Shooting phase, turboboost them back out of LOS and/or range. Still might have to throw them into a unit of flesh hounds in case the opponent is very shooty or has drop pods.

**Debilitate**

Yea, the gear is exactly the same. I wonder if the Crimson Slaughter us going to package together the random dataslates from the last year and throw em in a book. And if the BL supp is anything to go by, the CS book will also have the exact same wargear.

The Forgefiend formation looks interesting but it's 445 points bare minimum (which is fine because you wantnothing more than 8 str8 shots at BS5 that reroll wounds and pens once a game). Forgefiends are still hideously overcosted.

The cabal power seems cool but situational. Seems to vary in effectiveness from "I'm playing against Guard" to "grav cents/warp spiders/stormsurge".

**SonsofVulkan**

Debilitate wrote:
Yea, the gear is exactly the same. I wonder if the Crimson Slaughter us going to package together the random dataslates from the last year and throw em in a book. And if the BL supp is anything to go by, the CS book will also have the exact same wargear.

The Forgefiend formation looks interesting but it's 445 points bare minimum (which is fine because you wantnothing more than 8 str8 shots at BS5 that reroll wounds and pens once a game). Forgefiends are still hideously overcosted.

The cabal power seems cool but situational. Seems to vary in effectiveness from "I'm playing against Guard" to "grav cents/warp spiders/stormsurge".

Not really that situational when you look at the current meta.....

Riptide wings, storm surges, WK, grav units... even if you take control a unit of scatbikes and use it to shoot at another is a win.

**DaPino**

To me, the cabal power looks like the CSM codex has become self-aware. "Your codex sucks so bad, we'll let you give it a go with another armies unit".

On the absolutely overpowered other side.
You could bring in a cabal as allies of convenience and target one of your own units for top trolling.

Imagine: You're a Tau player and you've got a unit of 3 stormsurges. Well, for the low-low price of 250 points, you get 7 dice and a re-roll to give your entire stormsurge unit the opportunity to DOUBLE their firepower.

Looks like CSM might be the next hot gak after all.

**Requizen**

DaPino wrote:
To me, the cabal power looks like the CSM codex has become self-aware. "Your codex sucks so bad, we'll let you give it a go with another armies unit".

On the absolutely overpowered other side.
You could bring in a cabal as allies of convenience and target one of your own units for top trolling.

Imagine: You're a Tau player and you've got a unit of 3 stormsurges. Well, for the low-low price of 250 points, you get 7 dice and a re-roll to give your entire stormsurge unit the opportunity to DOUBLE their firepower.

Looks like CSM might be the next hot gak after all.

HA

Tau + Gorepack + Cabal trolling. I like it.

**Selym**

nudibranch wrote:
Ohhh myyy, Shroud of Deceit... That's a nice Stormsurge you got over there...

Oh, you brought a Reaver Titan?

K den.

Shame this means there will probably be no Codex update this year.

**nudibranch**

Selym wrote:
nudibranch wrote:
Ohhh myyy, Shroud of Deceit... That's a nice Stormsurge you got over there...
Oh, you brought a Reaver Titan?

K den.

Shame this means there will probably be no Codex update this year.

Doesn't work on vehicles I'm afraid.

On the targeting your own models side, notice how the power specifies enemy unit. Any model on your side, no matter where they sit on the ally table, are considered friendly models.

**Kaiyanwang**

DaPino wrote:
To me, the cabal power looks like the CSM codex has become self-aware. "Your codex sucks so bad, we'll let you give it a go with another armies unit".

I thought the same thing. There is some "meta" level in this rules.

Looks like CSM might be the next hot gak after all.

Nah. Is like the helldrake when it was brand-new. Is a fig leaf while the rest is the naked truth. A truth that sucks.

You know, this is sad if you think about it. GW just threw a bone to CSM but refused to address any structural issue. And the price for this "bone" is two whole books. Unbelievable.

**gungo**

The price is free is you have the digital codex.

**DaPino**

nudibranch wrote:
Selym wrote:
nudibranch wrote:
Ohhh myyy, Shroud of Deceit... That's a nice Stormsurge you got over there...
Oh, you brought a Reaver Titan?

K den.

Shame this means there will probably be no Codex update this year.

Doesn't work on vehicles I'm afraid.

On the targeting your own models side, notice how the power specifies enemy unit. Any model on your side, no matter where they sit on the ally table, are considered friendly models.

Sadly, you seem to be right on the account of them not being able to cast the power. However, they are definitely NOT friendly models.

BRB Page 127:

Units from the same army that are Allies of convencience treat each other as 'enemy units' that cannot be shot at, charged or targeted by psychic abilties

**Kaiyanwang**

gungo wrote:
The price is free is you have the digital codex.

That is nice. If.

But in any case, is 2 books not addressing the fundamental problems of the original codex.

**Vash108**

I am far from getting my hopes up for this. We have seen the same thing a few times like with Orks. It just a rules polish and not an update.

**Red Corsair**

Using the cabal on a stormsurge would be pretty fething hilarious. Turn 1 use all its missiles on it's friends

**Charax**

So..Hand of Darkness
"Surrendered" to Mortarion to secure the Death Guard's assistance.

Not available to Death Guard. Only available to Black Legion.

Did they steal it back? from Mortarion??