Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

At Lock & Load the casual players outnumber the tournament players 3 to 1. Or thereabouts. So there definitely is a non-competitive scene. PP also keeps releasing - typically as downloads, leagues or in No Quarter - scenarios (often with alternate model stats) and now recently campaigns clearly not meant for competitive play.

Sining wrote:

Cause they're a limited release and on their way to being squatted it seems

I guess I won't be buying the new Prime Conflux that comes out a month after MkIII drops, then. First new model in the CoC range not in their original book.

A friend of mine took a break from warmachine. Maybe 18 months. His favorite type of game is a 50 point game where you fight a battle with a variety of stuff. The guy who talked him into giving the game another shot took an Earth Breaker, Ossrum, Thor & McNail and assassinated him on the top of turn 2. So they deployed, he moved all his models forward and the game was over and he got to pack up all his stuff. Most of it went on eBay shortly after.

22" threat range line of sight ignoring knock down attacks are just bad game design. Add in the win at all cost culture and I can see why WM/H has the reputation it does.

This new edition is the only reason I haven't started selling my stuff. I'm willing to let them have another shot at fixing this game.

---

 Sarouan wrote:
The most hilarious part for me was the one talking about personnalising your army. In Warmachine, where each profile is very rigid in the rules and suiting the exact equipment of the miniature. Honestly, if there is a game that would be perfectly fine with prepainted miniatures, it's Warmachine/Horde. You have to take a special character with his own story at a set point in time (favorite weapons included), all units have a profile based on what they are exactly looking and the possibilities for conversion are actually as high as converting your own bike; you may do it, but it's not really meant to.

Warhammer was the game when you could really personnalize your army. Warmachine/Horde was always a game of comboting with very rigid rules/profiles and practically no place for options. Them trying to change the course is very funny to see.

You are correct that the unit profiles themselves are not changeable. The same unit with different weapon options is an entirely different profile (i.e. weapons on warjack hulls). This doesn't mean that there is no room for customization - unless you consider applying your own paint scheme, kitbashing and model reposes are not examples of customizing your models. Under the tag are a converted Iron Fang Kovnik (changed to an upright stance) and a battlegroup with a converted all-metal Grolar Warjack and a converted all-metal Rager Warjack. YMMV.

 MattofWar wrote:
A friend of mine took a break from warmachine. Maybe 18 months. His favorite type of game is a 50 point game where you fight a battle with a variety of stuff. The guy who talked him into giving the game another shot took an Earth Breaker, Ossrum, Thor & McNail and assassinated him on the top of turn 2. So they deployed, he moved all his models forward and the game was over and he got to pack up all his stuff. Most of it went on eBay shortly after.

22" threat range line of sight ignoring knock down attacks are just bad game design. Add in the win at all cost culture and I can see why WM/H has the reputation it does.

This new edition is the only reason I haven't started selling my stuff. I'm willing to let them have another shot at fixing this game.

---

Same here!

I'm hanging on to my Khador in the hopes that the game changes enough to become interesting to me, but...I'm not that hopeful.

 keezus wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
The most hilarious part for me was the one talking about personnalising your army. In Warmachine, where each profile is very rigid in the rules and suiting the exact equipment of the miniature. Honestly, if there is a game that would be perfectly fine with prepainted miniatures, it's Warmachine/Horde. You have to take a special character with his own story at a set point in time (favorite weapons included), all units have a profile based on what they are exactly looking and the possibilities for conversion are actually as high as converting your own bike; you may do it, but it's not really meant to.

Warhammer was the game when you could really personnalize your army. Warmachine/Horde was always a game of comboting with very rigid rules/profiles and practically no place for options. Them trying to change the course is very funny to see.

You are correct that the unit profiles themselves are not changeable. The same unit with different weapon options is an entirely different profile (i.e. weapons on warjack hulls). This doesn't mean that there is no room for customization - unless you consider applying your own paint scheme, kitbashing and model reposes are not examples of customizing your models. Under the tag are a converted Iron Fang Kovnik (changed to an upright stance) and a battlegroup with a converted all-metal Grolar Warjack and a converted all-metal Rager Warjack. YMMV.

Spoiler:

To continue on this....

From top to bottom we have Orsus' Zoktavir's personal Bokur, who has been decked out on Orgoth relics. In reality, no. It's the Avatar's of War Berserker Ogre with a couple of Khador bits added. The model was 99% perfect as is and I just made a big ass buckler/shield type thing to make him "legal".

Next is a converted Gudrun the Wanderer. I always thought he looked a little diddy and needed making more beefy. It's also based on an AoW Ogre, but is instantly recognisable as Gudrun.

Next was an experiment to see if a certain something fitted a warjack just because. What resulted was a Llaelese pattern "duelist" Nomad with it's sword replaced with a wajack sized Rapier made from a hors d'oeuvre skewer. and a sprinkling of Brettonian bits. Plus (to continue the trend of using upside down heads ) an upside down Buccaneer head as I thought it looked little like a Fencer's mask.

Finally we had Drake McBain's personal Nomad "Rattletrap". Only the weapon, Buckler (which was too small. A Steam Tank hatch was put under it) and head are from the Nomad kit. The rest is made from an Ironclad body, Buccaneer legs, random 40k Ork parts and a Khador left arm, a PoM heavy right and even a CoC vector for the left hand. It's a real personal hodge podge that is still recognisable as a Nomad.



So no. There's no customisation in WMH

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Warmahordes really has very little casual play, just competitive play at different levels. It's one area where the Magic analogy breaks down, in that there is no equivalent to Commander or draft for Wm/H, where savvy, but not hardcore, players can at least hand with the bruisers.

It's definitely limited my interest in the game, as I don't have the desire to become good. I like playing, but I get rolled pretty easily by even reasonably competitive players.

Does the game support narrative play? I had the book, had a circle force, gave it a try but sold it all as it seemed one dimensional.

Warmachine does not have built in narrative play. Most wargames don't. That said it can be added if you're willing to do the work. My group played a successful narrative journeyman campaign. The guy running ours simply wrote a story to explain why we were fighting who and where each week. It was quite a bit more work than he anticipated. But it was quite fun.

On the thing about "Combomania"
It was fun, but I want stuff that is more moderate and not prone to combos o be viable.
For example, they just releases that minion with the weird mount and is a sniper that had armor piercing. thought it looked cool and may have been a goot trouble shooter. I was immediatly told not to do it because it is too underpowered and you cant do combos with it. kinda a bummer.

Pretty much why I hate caster kill wins. I always try to go to the scenario win but I can't just ignore the caster if it's in my way. I feel you should be punished for caster kill but not and auto loss, my thoughts were that if you kill an opponents caster you should get some victory points not an auto win, that way you could include more Journeymen and Jack Marshals to help ease the loss of your caster.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
On the thing about "Combomania"
It was fun, but I want stuff that is more moderate and not prone to combos o be viable.
For example, they just releases that minion with the weird mount and is a sniper that had armor piercing. thought it looked cool and may have been a goot trouble shooter. I was immediatly told not to do it because it is too underpowered and you cant do combos with it. kinda a bummer.

Then those people don't know what in the hell they are talking about. The Efaarit solo is built for combos, esp with Slaughterhousers with Finisher.

well I was thinking like circle with him.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
well I was thinking like circle with him.

Well they're designed to be a force multiplier for Slaughterhousers.

If your group can't see the use in a fast moving light cav sniper that can be an absolute thorn in the side with removing support solos/UAs/WAs etc. then I don't know what to say. It's not meant to be used in a vacuum.

Well, the combo of a new edition meaning I can start effectively at square 1 and the cheap starters means I've mentally comitted to at least dip a toe into the game, something I've been umming and aahing over pretty much since I started actively gaming again 5 or 6 years ago.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, the combo of a new edition meaning I can start effectively at square 1 and the cheap starters means I've mentally comitted to at least dip a toe into the game, something I've been umming and aahing over pretty much since I started actively gaming again 5 or 6 years ago.

Which starter you gonna go for?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, the combo of a new edition meaning I can start effectively at square 1 and the cheap starters means I've mentally comitted to at least dip a toe into the game, something I've been umming and aahing over pretty much since I started actively gaming again 5 or 6 years ago.

My friend has like 3 armies. we gonna get the decks and try the game out again.
Might even buy his legion army off him.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, the combo of a new edition meaning I can start effectively at square 1 and the cheap starters means I've mentally comitted to at least dip a toe into the game, something I've been umming and aahing over pretty much since I started actively gaming again 5 or 6 years ago.

Which starter you gonna go for?

Legion probably. I'd looked hardest at Circle beforehand, but I'm more impressed by the big flappy thing in the Legion starter than anything else.

I guess we will see no 2-Players big Starter Sets for both Systems?

I'd say they're pretty redundant, given the cost of the single faction boxes, just buy your favorite two and call it done?

I'll probably get whatever starter has a caster I want.

Trolls/Menoth for sure.

The rest is going to be down to taking a closer look at the models.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
On the thing about "Combomania"
It was fun, but I want stuff that is more moderate and not prone to combos o be viable.
For example, they just releases that minion with the weird mount and is a sniper that had armor piercing. thought it looked cool and may have been a goot trouble shooter. I was immediatly told not to do it because it is too underpowered and you cant do combos with it. kinda a bummer.

This is about the third or fourth time you've mentioned jerky behavior by the people you know that play warmahordes. I have my problems with the game, but I think you just know some people that aren't a lot of fun.

I like pretty much all the new caster models, it's gonna be hard for me to choose which starters to get (and gonna be hard not to start all the factions I know I shouldn't start).

 ImAGeek wrote:
I like pretty much all the new caster models, it's gonna be hard for me to choose which starters to get (and gonna be hard not to start all the factions I know I shouldn't start).

Just buy them all, it's what I plan on doing.

Speaking of warcasters, has there been any announcement when they'll release them individually?

And thus PP proves that the best way to get gamers to forget about anti-consumer policies is to wave shinies in front of their faces.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
And thus PP proves that the best way to get gamers to forget about anti-consumer policies is to wave shinies in front of their faces.

Yeah basically, rationally I know I should probably just boycott cause I don't agree, but I'm just fan boy and can't stop my excitement.

 Knight wrote:
Speaking of warcasters, has there been any announcement when they'll release them individually?

Not any hard date as of yet. Metals should drop a couple of months after the boxes, going from their last set of battle boxes.

Hmm if they are finally allowing official pre-measuring and getting rid of caster kill might give it another go

 Mr Morden wrote:
Hmm if they are finally allowing official pre-measuring and getting rid of caster kill might give it another go

They haven't said anything about getting rid of caster kill (yet anyway).

Wait, what's this about getting rid of caster kill? That would sure make me reconsider things.

In the end I decided I'm going to take the same approach to this new edition of WM/H as I do to historical miniature games. Not caring about any connection between miniature manufacturer and rules producer.

So if I want to make a Cryx army but don't like mechanithralls made of PVC, I can go get whatever zombie miniatures I want and whatever 40k power fist bitz I want and make my own. There are loads of ways to modify any robot miniature I want to be steam powered and have the right weapons. If I want Nyss Hunters, maybe I'll use Dark Eldar Wyches as the basis of a conversion as I don't like the hobgoblin look of the PP ones. I'll likely get either the printed cards for the faction or the warroom and have the rules all handled.

I don't play in tournaments, so the whole official model thing doesn't matter to me at all. I also think that painting style and consistent basing does more than enough to tie very different miniatures together.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
And thus PP proves that the best way to get gamers to forget about anti-consumer policies is to wave shinies in front of their faces.

Didn't bother me in the slightest