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If a bunch of terminators come across something that can cause them severe harm, I'm fairly certain they'd just teleport back to orbit and then proceed to hit the planet with a lance battery. Heck, maybe they'd even plant a tracker for an accurate shot...... Because Marines aren't that stupid.

If the termies are by them selves with a single teleport, then its easy mode.

get in tank, drive backwards, keep shooting.

they wont catch up to it and a tank for the most part should have ample armor. at the least long enough to distract them for the cruiser missiles.

otherwise if they can keep teleporting then throw waves apon waves of your own men in a blanket so that they may mishap and die

 welshhoppo wrote:
If a bunch of terminators come across something that can cause them severe harm, I'm fairly certain they'd just teleport back to orbit and then proceed to hit the planet with a lance battery. Heck, maybe they'd even plant a tracker for an accurate shot...... Because Marines aren't that stupid.

and yet they do stupid things all the time in the fluff, like engage in direct sieges of enemy fortresses and pitched firefights

 Vaktathi wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
If a bunch of terminators come across something that can cause them severe harm, I'm fairly certain they'd just teleport back to orbit and then proceed to hit the planet with a lance battery. Heck, maybe they'd even plant a tracker for an accurate shot...... Because Marines aren't that stupid.

and yet they do stupid things all the time in the fluff, like engage in direct sieges of enemy fortresses and pitched firefights

Well who else is going to raid the fortresses? Unless you're chaos terminators and have a bucket load of "renegades" to gum up the enemy. Space marines have to do it the hard way.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
If a bunch of terminators come across something that can cause them severe harm, I'm fairly certain they'd just teleport back to orbit and then proceed to hit the planet with a lance battery. Heck, maybe they'd even plant a tracker for an accurate shot...... Because Marines aren't that stupid.

and yet they do stupid things all the time in the fluff, like engage in direct sieges of enemy fortresses and pitched firefights

Well who else is going to raid the fortresses? Unless you're chaos terminators and have a bucket load of "renegades" to gum up the enemy. Space marines have to do it the hard way.

which no SM chapter would have sufficient numbers to properly actually do, its hard to besiege a city when you only have a thousand dudes and cant cover more than a couple kilometers of territory at a time...it'd leave an awful lot of space (i.e. almost all of it for a city ot large fortress) for an opponent to keep supply lines open, launch counterattacks, escape through, etc.

I mean...the IG is great at that, but SM's get hamfisted into all sorts of stupid situations depending on author.

It'd be a total massacre. The effect of an M4 carbine on tactical dreadnought armor can be best replicated by firing a nerf gun at a boulder.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It'd be a total massacre. The effect of an M4 carbine on tactical dreadnought armor can be best replicated by firing a nerf gun at a boulder.

It doesn't stop a bunch of chump cultest shooting enough rifles to take one or two down once in a while.

it can be done.

Are we taking lore-wise or in game?

I'm not saying it would be 2000-0 for the Termies. A M1 Abrams can put a lot of hurt on them. But they'd clean up the base pretty easy.

i believe the Grey Knights Omnibus

has a case of it.

Edit they are free to have the base but expect a carpet bombing to follow.

Yeah, its because nearly all the authors lose the concept of scale.

You have the IG attack a place. Then you politely ask a space marine to come along. Drop pod onto the command centre. Blow it up and then "thank you. Good day" off they go. It just makes for boring reading, but that is how space marines are supposed to be used, they decend from the heavens like angels of death, chop off the head and go do something else. Maybe they will stay behind and give tactical advice, maybe they'll help with beachheads.


Also, even if you pentrade the armour, you skill have to kill the marine, a shot to the neck isn't going to do it most of the Time, they'll just heal instantly. Even losing an eye isn't a big deal really.

Aye, scale is a thing most 40k authors dont get. That said, even when they do, theres a lot of hand waving in most stories. How do the SM's always know where HQ's are, why are there never adequate AA or anti teleportation defenses, etc.

As for SM injuries, losing an eye would be a big deal in terms of depth perception and movement judgement, a shot to the neck might heal quickly, but if it severs the spine or blows his neck apart the SM is screwed.

Another issues with SM's would be calorie count. Given their body mass, and the energy required for rapid healing, and all those extra organs, a single SM would have to nutrition requirements of an entire company of normal human troops. Even if their digestive systems are more efficient and capable, theyd have to be spending hours each day eating milshakes and cake just to survive XD, or literal tons of random garbage. We wont get into the resulting poop issues.

SM eat superconcentrated nutrient gruel and their waste is recycled by the armour. They did solve that one.

So what is OP comparing to?
Fluff or gameplay?

If it's gameplay, they're slaughtered pretty quick.

If it's fluff, say goodbye to that base, unless there's a plucky soldier in there with plot armour.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It'd be a total massacre. The effect of an M4 carbine on tactical dreadnought armor can be best replicated by firing a nerf gun at a boulder.

I always go back to the saying

"Las gun does diddly....1000 guards man is a gak load of diddly."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So what is OP comparing to?
Fluff or gameplay?

If it's gameplay, they're slaughtered pretty quick.

If it's fluff, say goodbye to that base, unless there's a plucky soldier in there with plot armour.

Again depends whose writing the fluff, one writer says they are a walking tank able to punch through tank armor, another says a single gene stealer can kill a terminator.

 Ashiraya wrote:
SM eat superconcentrated nutrient gruel and their waste is recycled by the armour. They did solve that one.

So all you need to do to defeat Space Marines is to cut off their supply of porridge and watch them starve to death.

Curious as to how the armour converts masses of faecal matter into anything useful in an amount of time that actually gives any in-battle benefit, though.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
SM eat superconcentrated nutrient gruel and their waste is recycled by the armour. They did solve that one.

So all you need to do to defeat Space Marines is to cut off their supply of porridge and watch them starve to death.

Space marines can still consume the courses of their enemies to gain their nutrition, they can digest highly toxic chemicals. Space marine lore is crazy


You know a better debate is?

10 terminators deep striked onto the Death Star, who would win.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
SM eat superconcentrated nutrient gruel and their waste is recycled by the armour. They did solve that one.

So all you need to do to defeat Space Marines is to cut off their supply of porridge and watch them starve to death.

Space marines can still consume the courses of their enemies to gain their nutrition, they can digest highly toxic chemicals. Space marine lore is crazy

But with the massive amount of energy they require that wouldn't actually give them the calories they need to operate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:


You know a better debate is?

10 terminators deep striked onto the Death Star, who would win.

The Rebel Alliance.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
SM eat superconcentrated nutrient gruel and their waste is recycled by the armour. They did solve that one.

So all you need to do to defeat Space Marines is to cut off their supply of porridge and watch them starve to death.

Space marines can still consume the courses of their enemies to gain their nutrition, they can digest highly toxic chemicals. Space marine lore is crazy

But with the massive amount of energy they require that wouldn't actually give them the calories they need to operate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:


You know a better debate is?

10 terminators deep striked onto the Death Star, who would win.

The Rebel Alliance.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh <.<. >.>' Plot armor yeah plot armor!

A little boy playing with a naboo starfighter can probably win against the Deathstar.

Just saying, Terminator Armour either has force fields or is simply tough enough (depending on which wa you interpret things), to survive Volcano Cannons and plasma. A modern tank shell isn't even close to the power of a Volcano Cannons. A Storm Shield can deflect anything, including Volcano Cannons, Plasma, Orbital bombardments, giant monsters and 10 meter tall robots trying to cut them apart with robot sized chainsaws. A modern tank round wouldn't touch them.


Plus, if Terminators were being sent in, they'd be dropped into the centre of the base and operate extremely complex search patterns to find the commanders and execute them with ease.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It'd be a total massacre. The effect of an M4 carbine on tactical dreadnought armor can be best replicated by firing a nerf gun at a boulder.

I always go back to the saying

"Las gun does diddly....1000 guards man is a gak load of diddly."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So what is OP comparing to?
Fluff or gameplay?

If it's gameplay, they're slaughtered pretty quick.

If it's fluff, say goodbye to that base, unless there's a plucky soldier in there with plot armour.

Again depends whose writing the fluff, one writer says they are a walking tank able to punch through tank armor, another says a single gene stealer can kill a terminator.

You have to remember that a Lasgun is superior in all respects to a modern military rifle. A Lasgun can blow holes in concrete and sever limbs with a well placed shot. And a direct hit in the torso is pretty much a death sentence even with care. Sooo... You may need more than just 1000 M4 Carbines/SCARs/MTAR-21s etc.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
SM eat superconcentrated nutrient gruel and their waste is recycled by the armour. They did solve that one.

So all you need to do to defeat Space Marines is to cut off their supply of porridge and watch them starve to death.

Space marines can still consume the courses of their enemies to gain their nutrition, they can digest highly toxic chemicals. Space marine lore is crazy

Yeah, its crazy because they are genetically engineered to remove all of human's weaknesses.



They are strong enough that they aren't really limited by weight of gear.
Their bones, regenerative abilities, healing factor and willpower means they lack human squishiness to die in a single bullet. They have things like an extra heart, even.
Their vision, a real limiting factor in modern militaries, as a man who can't see well can't shoot guns well, limiting his usefulness, is massive improved. Can also see in IR and UV spectrums according to some sources, giving them a built in NV and blacklight (so they can see all the heresy on the ceiling)
Their hearing and balance are massively improved, making them immune to flashbang type weapons.
They are immune to drowning, and with their pain threshold, makes them immune to torture as we know it (such as kneecapping or waterboarding)
Strength to break steel with ease, and can spit acid, making them hard to subdue.
Barely need to eat even, so can't starve them, and they can eat anything between their toxin processing, their super-stomach and super-extra stomach. Can even eat their enemies, thus gaining intel
Their armour augments basically everything, making them immune to almost all small arms, doubling their strength and sensory inputs.
They carry .75 caliber guns, with explosive AP rounds.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It'd be a total massacre. The effect of an M4 carbine on tactical dreadnought armor can be best replicated by firing a nerf gun at a boulder.

I always go back to the saying

"Las gun does diddly....1000 guards man is a gak load of diddly."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So what is OP comparing to?
Fluff or gameplay?

If it's gameplay, they're slaughtered pretty quick.

If it's fluff, say goodbye to that base, unless there's a plucky soldier in there with plot armour.

Again depends whose writing the fluff, one writer says they are a walking tank able to punch through tank armor, another says a single gene stealer can kill a terminator.

You have to remember that a Lasgun is superior in all respects to a modern military rifle. A Lasgun can blow holes in concrete and sever limbs with a well placed shot. And a direct hit in the torso is pretty much a death sentence even with care. Sooo... You may need more than just 1000 M4 Carbines/SCARs/MTAR-21s etc.

It's the same effectiveness as a human punching. Lasguns aren't that effective even against unarmored foes. So, not it's not superior to a modern rifle in any way except number of shots.

Your using game stats to determine that. The Background shows that the Las Guns are much more powerful than a modern assault rifle. A standard bullet isn't blowing off a limb clean or blasting chunks of concrete off the wall in one shot.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Last I checked the imperium uses much much stronger materials then we do. Since its straight up fantasy and doesn't exist I reserve my right to call it supermaterials. Which I think accentuates the silliness of this thread.

The Imperium doesn't have night vision gear on their tanks.

It's not as advanced as you think it is...

Martel732 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It'd be a total massacre. The effect of an M4 carbine on tactical dreadnought armor can be best replicated by firing a nerf gun at a boulder.

I always go back to the saying

"Las gun does diddly....1000 guards man is a gak load of diddly."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So what is OP comparing to?
Fluff or gameplay?

If it's gameplay, they're slaughtered pretty quick.

If it's fluff, say goodbye to that base, unless there's a plucky soldier in there with plot armour.

Again depends whose writing the fluff, one writer says they are a walking tank able to punch through tank armor, another says a single gene stealer can kill a terminator.

You have to remember that a Lasgun is superior in all respects to a modern military rifle. A Lasgun can blow holes in concrete and sever limbs with a well placed shot. And a direct hit in the torso is pretty much a death sentence even with care. Sooo... You may need more than just 1000 M4 Carbines/SCARs/MTAR-21s etc.

It's the same effectiveness as a human punching. Lasguns aren't that effective even against unarmored foes. So, not it's not superior to a modern rifle in any way except number of shots.

a standard human punching a marine in Deathwatch cannot actually harm him, at all, take off the power armour and even then it usually requires a crit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Last I checked the imperium uses much much stronger materials then we do. Since its straight up fantasy and doesn't exist I reserve my right to call it supermaterials. Which I think accentuates the silliness of this thread.

The Imperium doesn't have night vision gear on their tanks.

It's not as advanced as you think it is...

um... yes it does, as shown in Necropolis, Taros campaign etc. you know just because your not explicitly told about it, doesn't mean its not there.

Martel732 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It'd be a total massacre. The effect of an M4 carbine on tactical dreadnought armor can be best replicated by firing a nerf gun at a boulder.

I always go back to the saying

"Las gun does diddly....1000 guards man is a gak load of diddly."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So what is OP comparing to?
Fluff or gameplay?

If it's gameplay, they're slaughtered pretty quick.

If it's fluff, say goodbye to that base, unless there's a plucky soldier in there with plot armour.

Again depends whose writing the fluff, one writer says they are a walking tank able to punch through tank armor, another says a single gene stealer can kill a terminator.

You have to remember that a Lasgun is superior in all respects to a modern military rifle. A Lasgun can blow holes in concrete and sever limbs with a well placed shot. And a direct hit in the torso is pretty much a death sentence even with care. Sooo... You may need more than just 1000 M4 Carbines/SCARs/MTAR-21s etc.

It's the same effectiveness as a human punching. Lasguns aren't that effective even against unarmored foes. So, not it's not superior to a modern rifle in any way except number of shots.

Don't bring game rules into a fluff discussion. They make absolutely no sense.

Well Space Marine tanks do, between their optical enhancements that let the see in IR and UV, and their autosenses.

They make a lot more sense than the fluff written by gibbering illiterate baboons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Your using game stats to determine that. The Background shows that the Las Guns are much more powerful than a modern assault rifle. A standard bullet isn't blowing off a limb clean or blasting chunks of concrete off the wall in one shot.

The background shows nothing, because it doesn't exist in the actual model that is the game. If there's no rule for it, it doesn't exist.

The bottom line is that terminator armor is embarrassing, as is all Imperial equipment really.

Martel732 wrote:
They make a lot more sense than the fluff written by gibbering illiterate baboons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Your using game stats to determine that. The Background shows that the Las Guns are much more powerful than a modern assault rifle. A standard bullet isn't blowing off a limb clean or blasting chunks of concrete off the wall in one shot.

The background shows nothing, because it doesn't exist in the actual model that is the game. If there's no rule for it, it doesn't exist.

Well, then, there are no models or rules for modern military soldiers or their weapons in 40k. So therefore the Terminators win by default because they are facing a non-existent foe by your logic.