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I can see tournaments limiting this power to purchased terrain and fortifications such as bastion and ADL. Most likely don't want to deal with moving thier terain .

Most fortifications are already overpriced and not really tournament competitive worst case is you get a few people tryin to roll for a random moving bastion first turn assault gimmick at an added cost.

Boy they keep finding new ways to jump the shark, don't they?

I'm not a fan of moving terrain.

Don't like it!

I don't get this from a fluff perspective. Most psychic powers might damage or kill a few models in a unit...and here a single psyker can move an entire mountain?

What psyker has this much power save for the chaos gods or the emperor himself?

 JimOnMars wrote:
What psyker has this much power save for the chaos gods or the emperor himself?

Yeah it makes little sense, especially in the realm of having to roll to hit with psychic screech. "Misses with psychic screech, lifts up entire mountain range in anger"

I kinda wish the faq on Facebook would allow us to ask questions regarding the new space marine rules. However after seeing the AoS answers (with crazy things like multiple unique models in an army and unhindered buff stacking) I'm expecting some tournament rules to be completely changed. I'm expecting a lot more ITC rule changes to be prevalent compared to the allow everything to share every special rule that I'm expecting the faqs to be.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I don't get this from a fluff perspective. Most psychic powers might damage or kill a few models in a unit...and here a single psyker can move an entire mountain?

What psyker has this much power save for the chaos gods or the emperor himself?

Well, if you're diving into fluff, one of the main reasons they search for random psykers in the imperium (aside from being a possible mid-day snack for Empy,) is that while unsupervised and living a normal life with everybody, they might accidentally destroy a planet among other terrifying things. Trained psykers limit themselves so as to both not do that as well as not have their brain explode. Occasionally they find the sacrifice worth it. (EG in the assassin board game backstory, an IG psyker willingly overloads to throw a psychic message across a not-insignificant distance over the galaxy to warn the LoT about chaos sorcerer what's-his-name's ritual and get them to deploy an assassin force.)

As for mechanics, I'm not incredibly impressed with shifting worldscape. ESD and veil of time definitely bring in some power, but shift is easy to play against because of the restrictions. If you don't want to be charged by a deathstar using it, be near the back of a terrain piece with 1 dude sitting outside it. They can't launch terrain to you because your piece is in the way, and they can't drag you to them because you'll just get out of the terrain instead. Also wc3 where the (IMO) better power of ESD is wc2, and geo has what may be the worst primaris in the game, and not a lot of other hot powers other than phase form.

In practice we've found that on a typical tourney-emulating table of terrain, the restrictions on moving pieces make it really situational. One of the games I put a batrep up for, my opponent was careless and didn't leave a devastator out of terrain, so I dragged them in a small terrain piece to charge them, and then the power never got used again. Wouldn't have gotten used the first time had he been more mindful of it.

Does it limit the distance to 24" or are dice involved?

I can see a couple of uses they may/may not have intended:
Moving terrain to block LOS on a unit out in the open, and possibly moving the terrain off the board, taking an enemy unit with it.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The answer to this is IN the powers rules.

The rule specifically states that the terrain must be able to be physically moved.

All a tournament needs to do is secure The terrain down with double-sided tape, and no flying terrain features.

Or simply declare all terain "secured" to the tables for the purposes of this power.

It's not that hard and People are freaking out over very little.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The answer to this is IN the powers rules.

The rule specifically states that the terrain must be able to be physically moved.

All a tournament needs to do is secure The terrain down with double-sided tape, and no flying terrain features.

Or simply declare all terain "secured" to the tables for the purposes of this power.

It's not that hard and People are freaking out over very little.

I fully expect most tournaments to keep thier boards as permanant terrain and this power will be limited to purchased terrain such as a bastion. Overall geomancy is one of the worst psychic trees and I doubt we will see it ever in any tournament setting.

Much worse powers then this such as rerollable saves and invisibility. Which are much better psychic trees. Now if fw amends loth to choose any of the new trees you might see this power in a gimmick list.

gungo wrote:

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The answer to this is IN the powers rules.

The rule specifically states that the terrain must be able to be physically moved.

All a tournament needs to do is secure The terrain down with double-sided tape, and no flying terrain features.

Or simply declare all terain "secured" to the tables for the purposes of this power.

It's not that hard and People are freaking out over very little.

I fully expect most tournaments to keep thier boards as permanant terrain and this power will be limited to purchased terrain such as a bastion. Overall geomancy is one of the worst psychic trees and I doubt we will see it ever in any tournament setting.

Much worse powers then this such as rerollable saves and invisibility. Which are much better psychic trees. Now if fw amends loth to choose any of the new trees you might see this power in a gimmick list.

Geokinesis even without Shifting Worldscape is far away from being a bad discipline. The ability to remove Run/Flat Out/Turbo Boost is massive, ignoring cover and LoS on shooting is huge, and healing a Character plus giving IWND makes Smashbane (or other Deathstar ICs) even more terrifying. The damaging powers aren't too shabby either, the Primaris ruins big units without Invulns or FNP and has a 1/6 to immobilize a vehicle.

The trading places electro power is a much bigger deal. Smart tournaments will modify it like Invisibility.

Seems just like a soup-ed up version of Tau Rampart movable terrain. Looking forward to moving Skyshield Landing Pad with 3 Imperial Knights or something similar, throw in the ignore cover\LOS power also
Add in Culexus, Coteaz and other fun stuff to mess with deathstars and other stuff.

Requizen wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The answer to this is IN the powers rules.

The rule specifically states that the terrain must be able to be physically moved.

All a tournament needs to do is secure The terrain down with double-sided tape, and no flying terrain features.

Or simply declare all terain "secured" to the tables for the purposes of this power.

It's not that hard and People are freaking out over very little.

I fully expect most tournaments to keep thier boards as permanant terrain and this power will be limited to purchased terrain such as a bastion. Overall geomancy is one of the worst psychic trees and I doubt we will see it ever in any tournament setting.

Much worse powers then this such as rerollable saves and invisibility. Which are much better psychic trees. Now if fw amends loth to choose any of the new trees you might see this power in a gimmick list.

Geokinesis even without Shifting Worldscape is far away from being a bad discipline. The ability to remove Run/Flat Out/Turbo Boost is massive, ignoring cover and LoS on shooting is huge, and healing a Character plus giving IWND makes Smashbane (or other Deathstar ICs) even more terrifying. The damaging powers aren't too shabby either, the Primaris ruins big units without Invulns or FNP and has a 1/6 to immobilize a vehicle.

I highly disagree.
-healing a character means he took wounds and didn't die. The most realistic common use for this is going to be to heal libbies after they peril. Most full size armies, especially when you tell them that you can heal a dude, will focus down things they want down. You could get lucky and have this power be relevant every few games, though.

-By the time you're worried about an enemy close to your Libby turbo boosting away to an objective or something, either the Libby is long dead or the speedy units have just...moved away from him, or you're just flat out dominating. This power looks pretty sweet on paper but in practice it's really just good in a couple corner cases.

-Do the math on the primaris. It's possibly the worst power in the game. The abilities are very schizophrenic and don't sync well. It wants to target both a big blob-ish unit but also an elite unit with good armor. Units tend to be only one of those, not both. Unless you're playing against a heresy army and they use 20 man squads I suppose. And to add to that, any unit with MTC is just immune to it. That's most scout-type units across the armies, all MC's, all GC's, any necron army using a decurion, as well as any other formation that grants it, plus more. All this shoddiness costs you TWO warp charges, when you could easily and reliably out damage it with other offensive primaris powers that are WC1. Definitely not "ruining" anything.

-phase is good, but it's pretty much just perfect timing. Yes if they happen to be using a large LOS-blocker to totally hide like...a barrage unit, phase's other benefit can be relevant, but unless you're just having a Libby perfectly time a dev squad sitting backfield, odds are you can move them in such a way to gain a little LOS to that unit anyway, and with either power, a little LOS is all you need.

-the 6" single heavy flamer hit per unit blast, like chasm, is competing for a spot in the hall of infamy for "worst powers ever."

-for the last one, not only is it specific to buildings and ruins, thus requiring that your opponent pack into those while already knowing that you rolled this power, but it has chasm-like damage. That is to say pitifully low. And it even has a random roll to fail!

I got my book yesterday.

I don't like the moving terrain power. Not even a little.

I had a chance to play against these powers in a tourney last weekend. My opponent had a bike star (white scars of course), conclave, Coteaz, and some grav cents. He also had a Scout formation that had the speeders (can't remember the name of the formation). I set my Kroot up as a bubble wrap wall and set my ghost keels a few inches behind them. He stole the initiative, moved the scouts up to my front line, used the psy power to swap one scout squad with the bike star. Normal shooting removed the Kroot from another bike squad andd the scouts leaving a nice big hole in my bubble wrap. First turn charge cleared out the ghost keel and the bike star would have cleaned me out by turn two. I really had zero opportunity to react and never got a turn to play.

Several of us had plenty of time to look at the game and see what could have been done different. I would have needed to put everything on the very edge of the board except the Kroot to give me more of a gap and force him to take a longer charge. There was however no way to guarantee zero chance of a first turn charge. Even if we FAQ it to state a unit can't charge if there was a rule preventing the unit they swapped with from charging he still could have charged due to the scout formation he used (allowed to charge first turn). ThIs power would have to state you can't charge if you use it.

My overall thoughts on the powers is that the taxi terrain has its limitations but still can force first turn charges. I think people forget you can move an opponent on terrain to get closer as well. The swap with another unit power can be pretty overwhelming for armies that have no chance to stop psy powers. Without a hammer and anvil set up there is a great chance for a first turn charge. It is very un-fun and pointless to even play the game especially considering librarius has a very strong chance of getting the power they want and getting the power off. Add in the Marine ability to create overwhelming Death Stars that can move fast (both shooting and assault) and you have the absolute top tier power lists.

Just thought of something funny. If you or your opponent puts their objective onto a piece of terrain. On Turn 5, you can move that objective/terrain either away from your opponent or to within claiming distance of your own units. Lol.

 jy2 wrote:
Just thought of something funny. If you or your opponent puts their objective onto a piece of terrain. On Turn 5, you can move that objective/terrain either away from your opponent or to within claiming distance of your own units. Lol.

That's been mentioned in another thread. Some argue that an objective can't be moved, period. I honestly don't know, but this is not the place for that argument.

Objectives are points on the board, they never move no matter what the terrain does.

 gdzilla wrote:
Objectives are points on the board, they never move no matter what the terrain does.

Never move? Are you sure?

I seem to recall an objective that you can actually take with you. What was it called again? Oh, that's right, the Relic.

 jy2 wrote:

 gdzilla wrote:
Objectives are points on the board, they never move no matter what the terrain does.

Never move? Are you sure?

I seem to recall an objective that you can actually take with you. What was it called again? Oh, that's right, the Relic.

That's the only one with that ability; however, this is not the place for this debate. Take it to You Make Da Call. Or, Bettah Call Saul. Either.

I don't like how ITC is trying to nerf all of these new SM powers, geokenesis I understand but why touch the others? They are not overpower!

From ITC FAQ
"Geokinesis Discipline:
Phase Form: we recommend altering this psychic power to be Warp Charge 2, and to allow the targeted unit to either ignore Line of Site or to Ignore Cover, but not both simultaneously.
Shifting Worldscape: we recommend banning this power for tournament play or altering it to only allow the controlling player to move a terrain piece in a straight line along the table. It may not move over intervening models and at no point may it move within 4" of another piece of terrain or enemy unit. It otherwise obeys all other rules of the power.
Fulmination Discipline:
Electrodisplacement: We recommend altering this psychic power to treat the casting Psyker's unit as Deep Striking when moved and therefore being unable to assault in the turn it uses Electrodisplacement. Further, the casting Psyker may not target a unit locked in combat to swap places with."

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
I don't like how ITC is trying to nerf all of these new SM powers, geokenesis I understand but why touch the others? They are not overpower!

From ITC FAQ
"Geokinesis Discipline:
Phase Form: we recommend altering this psychic power to be Warp Charge 2, and to allow the targeted unit to either ignore Line of Site or to Ignore Cover, but not both simultaneously.
Shifting Worldscape: we recommend banning this power for tournament play or altering it to only allow the controlling player to move a terrain piece in a straight line along the table. It may not move over intervening models and at no point may it move within 4" of another piece of terrain or enemy unit. It otherwise obeys all other rules of the power.
Fulmination Discipline:
Electrodisplacement: We recommend altering this psychic power to treat the casting Psyker's unit as Deep Striking when moved and therefore being unable to assault in the turn it uses Electrodisplacement. Further, the casting Psyker may not target a unit locked in combat to swap places with."

If you think Electodisplacement isn't overpowered as feth you don't really know much about the game. Watch any of their battle reports where they do their best to abuse it.

Requizen wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
I don't like how ITC is trying to nerf all of these new SM powers, geokenesis I understand but why touch the others? They are not overpower!

From ITC FAQ
"Geokinesis Discipline:
Phase Form: we recommend altering this psychic power to be Warp Charge 2, and to allow the targeted unit to either ignore Line of Site or to Ignore Cover, but not both simultaneously.
Shifting Worldscape: we recommend banning this power for tournament play or altering it to only allow the controlling player to move a terrain piece in a straight line along the table. It may not move over intervening models and at no point may it move within 4" of another piece of terrain or enemy unit. It otherwise obeys all other rules of the power.
Fulmination Discipline:
Electrodisplacement: We recommend altering this psychic power to treat the casting Psyker's unit as Deep Striking when moved and therefore being unable to assault in the turn it uses Electrodisplacement. Further, the casting Psyker may not target a unit locked in combat to swap places with."

If you think Electodisplacement isn't overpowered as feth you don't really know much about the game. Watch any of their battle reports where they do their best to abuse it.

Haha so what if I could get turn 1 charge, a player can still prevent it by using screening units to protect the more important ones.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
I don't like how ITC is trying to nerf all of these new SM powers, geokenesis I understand but why touch the others? They are not overpower!

From ITC FAQ
"Geokinesis Discipline:
Phase Form: we recommend altering this psychic power to be Warp Charge 2, and to allow the targeted unit to either ignore Line of Site or to Ignore Cover, but not both simultaneously.
Shifting Worldscape: we recommend banning this power for tournament play or altering it to only allow the controlling player to move a terrain piece in a straight line along the table. It may not move over intervening models and at no point may it move within 4" of another piece of terrain or enemy unit. It otherwise obeys all other rules of the power.
Fulmination Discipline:
Electrodisplacement: We recommend altering this psychic power to treat the casting Psyker's unit as Deep Striking when moved and therefore being unable to assault in the turn it uses Electrodisplacement. Further, the casting Psyker may not target a unit locked in combat to swap places with."

If you think Electodisplacement isn't overpowered as feth you don't really know much about the game. Watch any of their battle reports where they do their best to abuse it.

Haha so what if I could get turn 1 charge, a player can still prevent it by using screening units to protect the more important ones.

You honestly sound like you've never played against a decently piloted Imperial Superfriends Deathstar. Or against anyone who plays at a tournament level. Which is totally fine, but don't pretend that you speak for the tournament community if that's the case.

Requizen wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
I don't like how ITC is trying to nerf all of these new SM powers, geokenesis I understand but why touch the others? They are not overpower!

From ITC FAQ
"Geokinesis Discipline:
Phase Form: we recommend altering this psychic power to be Warp Charge 2, and to allow the targeted unit to either ignore Line of Site or to Ignore Cover, but not both simultaneously.
Shifting Worldscape: we recommend banning this power for tournament play or altering it to only allow the controlling player to move a terrain piece in a straight line along the table. It may not move over intervening models and at no point may it move within 4" of another piece of terrain or enemy unit. It otherwise obeys all other rules of the power.
Fulmination Discipline:
Electrodisplacement: We recommend altering this psychic power to treat the casting Psyker's unit as Deep Striking when moved and therefore being unable to assault in the turn it uses Electrodisplacement. Further, the casting Psyker may not target a unit locked in combat to swap places with."

If you think Electodisplacement isn't overpowered as feth you don't really know much about the game. Watch any of their battle reports where they do their best to abuse it.

Haha so what if I could get turn 1 charge, a player can still prevent it by using screening units to protect the more important ones.

You honestly sound like you've never played against a decently piloted Imperial Superfriends Deathstar. Or against anyone who plays at a tournament level. Which is totally fine, but don't pretend that you speak for the tournament community if that's the case.

Oh I'm very well aware how powerful it is, using it with my IH/DA deathstar. I'm just annoyed that every time something cool comes along, ITC community wants it nerfed kinda like they are sick and tire of Aaron Aelong winning GTs with a deathstar army lol

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
I'm just annoyed that every time something cool comes along,

You and I have VERY different definitions of the word "cool".

That's OK. It takes a village to beat a child, as they say. However, in a tournament setting, some of these powers are just plain silly.

I'm actually having a blast moving terrain around in my test games. It actually isn't too bad. Then again, we normally play on a densely-terrained table and so we don't have as much freedom with terrain-movement as one probably would on a more normal table. So far, I've only been able to pull off 3 or 4 assaults in 3 games, none of which were on Turn 1.

 gdzilla wrote:
Objectives are points on the board, they never move no matter what the terrain does.

Correction : objectives *can* move (and i'm not speaking of the relic special case). They're definitively not fixed points on the board.

The rulebook even gives an example : put an objective on top of a building, destroy the building, the objective then drop on the ground (cf "Placing Objectives Markers").
Granted it did not move horizontally, just vertically, but it did move.

So even if we decide that objectives don't move with the piece of terrain they are on, but rather drops on the ground as in the destroyed building case, it still can favor the SM player greatly. For example if you put an objective on the top-floor of a ruin, an obsec drop pod can't DS on top of it and secure it forever. It's foot-slogging content is able to go get it, but it will lose quite some time doing so (and they might not want to climb that ruin in the first place). But move the ruin, drop the objective and suddenly it is in easy reach of any SM unit.

Personally I'm not against the idea, but I just don't like that we apply it for the wrong reasons. The rulebook never says that objectives are *fixed* points on the board, and it actually gives at least 2 cases where objectives can be moved (relic and buildings removed from the table).

 RabbitMaster wrote:

 gdzilla wrote:
Objectives are points on the board, they never move no matter what the terrain does.

Correction : objectives *can* move (and i'm not speaking of the relic special case). They're not fixed points on the board.

The rulebook even gives an example : put an objective on top of a building, destroy the building, the objective then drop on the ground.
Granted it did not move horizontally, just vertically, but it did move.

So even if we decide that objectives don't move with the piece of terrain they are on, but rather drops on the ground as in the destroyed building case, it still can favor the SM player greatly. For example if you put an objective on the top-floor of a ruin, an obsec drop pod can't DS on top of it and secure it forever. It's foot-slogging content is able to go get it, but it will lose quite some time doing so.

Interesting example. I think that argues that objectives on moving terrain would also drop to the ground.

It also says that Objectives are "points on the battlefield" not on terrain.

It's still ambiguous and you should talk to opponents during casual games. But I think it's clear how most all tournaments will rule.