General Trans bathroom thread, incl. target, federal involvement and more

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**insaniak**

Mdlbuildr wrote:
As I've posted a few times, the transgender community would likely use the laws properly, but that there were an equal number of people who could use the law maliciously.

Do you honestly believe that men who would be inclined to assault women in public bathrooms are going to be in any way influenced by whether or not the law allows them to walk into said bathroom...?

Have they all previously just been hovering around the door going 'Geeze, I'd really love to go in there and get me some raping done, but I might get in trouble for walking into the ladies' room!'

**d-usa**

The only thing stopping a bad guy in the bathroom, is a good guy in the bathroom.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Mdlbuildr wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Can someone please tell me what being on the sex offender list has to do with which restroom one chooses? I'm not following that train.

Someone posted that he was sure that the people that would use this law properly outweighed those that would use the law maliciously.

As I've posted a few times, the transgender community would likely use the laws properly, but that there were an equal number of people who could use the law maliciously.

So, you are saying that being on the sex offender list is equivalent to intending to use the law maliciously? How are you connecting those? Not everyone on the list is a rapist. Not every rapist is a violent offender. Not every violent rapist will stalk a woman into a public restroom. So, the number of people on the list has almost nothing to do with the number of malicious law-exploiters we can expect, not even as an upper limit in some extremely-hypothetical "assume every rapist is a spherical ball of iron to simplify calculations" kind of a way.

Here's what I can extrapolate from your numbers: Most of the transgender people would benefit from the law. A possibly nonzero number of criminals would benefit from this law. That's not a compelling argument against it.

**Frazzled**

d-usa wrote:
The only thing stopping a bad guy in the bathroom, is a good guy in the bathroom.

Do we need to set up a bathroom militia?

**Easy E**

No, what we need to stop this is more slacktivism!

**jmurph**

d-usa wrote:
The only thing stopping a bad guy in the bathroom, is a good guy in the bathroom.

With a gun.

**Monkey Tamer**

I don't like sharing a bathroom with anyone. I demand private bathroom equality.

**Mdlbuildr**

insaniak wrote:

Do you honestly believe that men who would be inclined to assault women in public bathrooms are going to be in any way influenced by whether or not the law allows them to walk into said bathroom...?

There is moreof a potential for this:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault

And I have 2 young daughters. There are crazy people out there who may just feel that now they get a free pass.

So yes, I am honestly concerned.

**Ouze**

Mdlbuildr wrote:
insaniak wrote:

Do you honestly believe that men who would be inclined to assault women in public bathrooms are going to be in any way influenced by whether or not the law allows them to walk into said bathroom...?

There is moreof a potential for this:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault

And I have 2 young daughters. There are crazy people out there who may just feel that now they get a free pass.

So yes, I am honestly concerned.

I don't understand how this is possible. Surely sexual assault is against the law in Canada?

Perhaps they need to make a law prohibiting rape and other sexual assaults.

**Mdlbuildr**

Ouze wrote:

I don't understand how this is possible. Surely sexual assault is against the law in Canada?

Perhaps they need to make a law prohibiting rape and other sexual assaults.

I guess you didn't read my comment very carefully.

I put in "potential" and "free pass".

And I answered the question put forth. No need to poke fun or get overly sarcastic because you don't like my answer. Jeez.

Furthermore, this criminal actually used the Transgender laws to get into some where he shouldn't have been which is precisely what we are talking about. I gave an example of why I have concerns.

**d-usa**

Mdlbuildr wrote:
insaniak wrote:

Do you honestly believe that men who would be inclined to assault women in public bathrooms are going to be in any way influenced by whether or not the law allows them to walk into said bathroom...?

There is moreof a potential for this:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault

And I have 2 young daughters. There are crazy people out there who may just feel that now they get a free pass.

So yes, I am honestly concerned.

We already covered that gakky article in the last thread, so there is no point replying to it. I look forward to seeing the same single article in every thread to showcase how big the problem is that can't find a second article to back it up.

As for your concern about your daughters, it's a good use of the "think of the children" defense. But what do you think will be more effective: being able to take them to the bathroom yourself, or being forced to stand outside the bathroom while they go alone and you hope the "no penis allowed" rule stops the guy willing to ignore the "don't rape little girls" rule?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Ouze wrote:

I don't understand how this is possible. Surely sexual assault is against the law in Canada?

Perhaps they need to make a law prohibiting rape and other sexual assaults.

I guess you didn't read my comment very carefully.

I put in "potential" and "free pass".

And I answered the question put forth. No need to poke fun or get overly sarcastic because you don't like my answer. Jeez.

Furthermore, this criminal actually used the Transgender laws to get into some where he shouldn't have been which is precisely what we are talking about. I gave an example of why I have concerns.

The very fact that this article exists, in which he is charged, is the perfect example that the didn't get a "free pass".

**Prestor Jon**

Both the Charlotte bathroom statute and the HB2 law are bad laws passed for bad reasons. Neither law was about solving an actual problem, both were passed to pander to political bases in an election year in an attempt to gain support and bolster turnout. They're both unenforceable laws that don't do anything except give politicians another example to put out as a reason for voters to support them at the ballot box,

Were any transgender people in Charlotte being barred from using or forcibly removed from the public bathrooms of the gender they identify with? Were transgender people in Charlotte unable to use public bathrooms prior to that statute? There isn't a single public bathroom anywhere in Charlotte or the state of NC that requires people to show what's in their pants in order to gain admittance to the bathroom of their choice.

The Charlotte statute didn't remove any obstacles preventing from transgendered people from using public restrooms. HB2 hasn't made people any safer in bathrooms and doesn't create any real obstacle that prevents transgendered people from using the same public restrooms they were using before the law was passed.

All the bad things that could happen to you in a bathroom, indecent exposure, lewd behavior, sexual assault, nonsexual assault, kidnapping, murder etc. are just as illegal now as they were before. You are just as safe in a public bathroom today in NC as you were before HB2 was passed, nothing has changed in that regard.

HB2 is an unncessary heavy handed law that violates the principles of federalism and municipal authority. It's an additional law that benefits no one except the politicians using it to create a wedge issue to try to win over segment of voters. Both pieces of legislation are bad, I personally think HB2 is worse because it's about much more than just public bathrooms and sets a bad precedent for state govt usurping legal authority from municipalities.

**MrDwhitey**

I like how that Lifesite has that article under "Homosexuality".

Why?

**d-usa**

Well, looks like 280,000 people will no longer shop at Target because a plastic sign without any verification of actual gender stops rapes and Target is the now the go to place for your kakhi fetish and sexual predation of women.

So Walmart should be happy about the increased business.

http://www.businessinsider.com/target-boycott-over-transgender-bathroom-policy-2016-4

**Crazy_Carnifex**

d-usa wrote:
Well, looks like 280,000 people will no longer shop at Target because a plastic sign without any verification of actual gender stops rapes and Target is the now the go to place for your kakhi fetish and sexual predation of women.

So Walmart should be happy about the increased business.

http://www.businessinsider.com/target-boycott-over-transgender-bathroom-policy-2016-4

Well, Target is used to losing business for bad reasons [cough]Canadian expansion[/cough]

**nkelsch**

d-usa wrote:
Well, looks like 280,000 people will no longer shop at Target because a plastic sign without any verification of actual gender stops rapes and Target is the now the go to place for your kakhi fetish and sexual predation of women.

So Walmart should be happy about the increased business.

http://www.businessinsider.com/target-boycott-over-transgender-bathroom-policy-2016-4

The sad truth is 3/4th of sexual assaults against children are done by "Family Members or people the children know". So statistically the child has a higher chance of being molested by their own parent/step-parent/familymember than a random stranger pooper.

Children who live with a single parent that has a live-in partner are at the highest risk: they are 20 times more likely to be victims of child sexual abuse than children living with both biological parents Poor, Rural and Minority doubles and triples the risk past that.

Also, 81% of sexual assaults against children happen in either the perpetrator's home or the victim's home.

So most of these people 'protesting' Target are probably statistically more likely to facilitate the molestation of their own children themselves by someone they know in their own home, than for their kids to get molested by a stranger in the bathroom at target.

**d-usa**

Looks like the state should remove all children from their homes, and house them in gender specific bathrooms until they reach adulthood. That's the only way to protect them.

**TheWaspinator**

The really stupid thing about this whole thing is that I'm certain transgender people have been using the "wrong" restroom for years and most people never noticed. Seriously, just mind your own business and unless you're peeking into stalls it's really never going to come up.

**Kilkrazy**

You are no doubt right.

For some reason the USA has got itself into a right tizzy over this issue, which has never arisen at all in the UK AFAIK.

**Peregrine**

Kilkrazy wrote:
For some reason the USA has got itself into a right tizzy over this issue, which has never arisen at all in the UK AFAIK.

The reason is simple: because the republican party needs to keep the religious right happy if they want to win elections. It's the same reason republican politicians keep making futile attempts to overturn gay marriage. It doesn't matter if the law accomplishes anything (or even has a chance of surviving a court challenge), it tells an important element of their base "we hate the same people you hate". Meanwhile the low-information "undecided" voters hear some variation of "we have to protect our children from rapists" and think of course, there must be a reason for the law, without ever really understanding the issue beyond what the right-wing politicians and religious leaders are saying.

**DarkTraveler777**

A mild bump as Oxford, Alabama enters the bathroom fray:

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/04/27/3773081/oxford-alabama-transgender-jail/

On Tuesday night, the City Council of Oxford, Alabama unanimously approved a new ordinance that will punish individuals for using restrooms that do not match their biological sex as stated on their birth certificate. The policy is a direct response to Target indicating that trans people are welcome and will be respected in their stores.

According to the text of the ordinance, “citizens have a right to quite [sic] solicitude [sic] and to be secure from embarrassment and unwanted intrusion into their privacy while utilizing multiple occupancy bathroom or changing facilities by members of the opposite biological sex.”

It also warns that “single sex public facilities are places of increased venerability [sic] and present the potential for crimes against individuals utilizing those facilities which may include, but not limited to, voyeurism, exhibitionism, molestation, and assault and battery.”

Anywhere within the city’s police jurisdiction, it is now a criminal offense for transgender people to use restrooms that match their gender identity unless they have undergone surgery and successfully changed the gender marker on their birth certificate.

Each individual violation will result in a $500 fine or up to six months in jail. CNN reported this week that “most people urinate four to seven times during a day.”

The ordinance is actually more expansive than North Carolina’s HB2, which only applies to government buildings and public schools and universities.

In a prepared statement after the ordinance’s passage, Council President Steven Waits said that the council passed it “not out of concerns for the 0.3 percent of the population who identify as transgender,” but “to protect our women and children,” according to the Anniston Star. Apparently many residents had complained about Target’s policy statement about transgender inclusion.

“We welcome transgender team members and guests to use the restroom or fitting room facility that corresponds with their gender identity,” the company said last week, reiterating a policy that was already in place. “Everyone deserves to feel like they belong. And you’ll always be accepted, respected and welcomed at Target.”

If transgender customers or employees try to take advantage of this inclusive policy at the Target in Oxford, they could soon find themselves in jail.

A sorta not joking question, but are people expected to carry their birth certificates now in Oxford?

**Spinner**

I was about to get cheerful about another state being crazier than mine (and then, you know, depressed because people are making laws like this), but then I noticed it was just Oxford rather than Alabama.

Nice try, guys, but we're still the Stupid Bathroom Law champion! Which, I guess...makes us Number One?

(Making it look like you typed your legal ordinance with autocorrect is a nice touch, though.)

**MrMoustaffa**

This law has a crazy amount of support in Kentucky, many are pushing for a similar deal as we have Targets too. I've seen a shocking number of people from back home saying they were boycotting target and supporting a "bathroom law" of our own. I dont think anything is on the cards yet for us, but if the people on my facebook are any Indica ion, it'll happen soon.

I haven't been this embarrassed about my home state since that bigoted hag refused to hand out marriage licenses.

**d-usa**

What if a transgender gay couple wants to get married in a bathroom there?

**whembly**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
This law has a crazy amount of support in Kentucky, many are pushing for a similar deal as we have Targets too. I've seen a shocking number of people from back home saying they were boycotting target and supporting a "bathroom law" of our own. I dont think anything is on the cards yet for us, but if the people on my facebook are any Indica ion, it'll happen soon.

I haven't been this embarrassed about my home state since that bigoted hag refused to hand out marriage licenses.

It's the "wedge issue" de jour now...

Which is unfortunate as I don't believe most people care if trans go into their bathroom of choice to take care of "bidness". There's more than enough privacy for everyone...

I guess there's an arguement about locker/changing rooms... but... eh.

Nah... it's a wedge issue.

**TheWaspinator**

The enforcement issue might be the dumbest part of this whole thing. They want people to present their birth certificates on demand to prove their gender? Really? We're seriously going to a "papers please" scenario? There is something really wrong with parts of this country.

That's not even going into how these laws ignore the reality that gender is more complicated than binary. Which bathroom are you supposed to force people with androgen insensitivity syndrome to use?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

**Kilkrazy**

The ordinance only applies to single sex facilities. The easy way around this is for Target to mark all their ladies' loos as being for women and men, and all their gents' as being for men and women.

The other point is that maintenance workers are exempt. Clearly the presence of a crew of hulking men in the ladies' loo is perfectly acceptable so long as they are cleaning it.

**BuFFo**

Jihadin wrote:
Wait....people still shop at Target....I think...I might have one near me somewhere...

My girlfriend does.... and she would never want to share a bathroom with a man, for what that's worth.

**Goliath**

BuFFo wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Wait....people still shop at Target....I think...I might have one near me somewhere...

My girlfriend does.... and she would never want to share a bathroom with a man, for what that's worth.

So you're advocating that policies banning the use of toilet based on gender identity are a good thing?

**Dreadwinter**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Indica ion

Copper Mountain, Colorado huh? I see what you did there.