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If an obsec unit is embarked on a non dedicated transport and contests an objective is it still able to claim obsec status?

Yes. Why wouldnt it?

Page 89, from memory, states you measure a range to/from an embarked unit by measuring to the hull, and nothing in embarking removes or otherwse limits the OS rule.

It has been suggested to me that is the vehicle contesting the objective and embarked troops are not relevant in this case. I can't see a rule that specifically outlines this.

Why cant you see a rule?

The rule is that you must be within X" to claim / deny an objective

Page 89 (or thereabouts) tells you, under Embarking, that if you need to measure ranges to the embarked unit, you measure to /from the hull

If the hull is within x", then so are the unit inside. Thus, the unit inside AND the vehicle are claiming the objective

If the unit inside has ObSec, then this rule is still used.

Units embarked on a transport share (most) rules with that transport, and since ObSec is a "unit-level" rule, yes. The Transport would also have ObSec. However, if the unit were to disembark, the transport would lose that USR.

 EnTyme wrote:
Units embarked on a transport share (most) rules with that transport, and since ObSec is a "unit-level" rule, yes. The Transport would also have ObSec. However, if the unit were to disembark, the transport would lose that USR.

As I understand the rules for embarked troops and transports this isn't quite right, though functionally (when claiming/contesting objectives) the result is essentially the same. The embarked unit doesn't share any of the rules belonging to the transport though the unit does gain Fearless and other rules start to apply to it, such as taking Ld tests when the vehicle is Shaken etc. Being embarked doesn't prevent a unit from claiming an objective, or prevent the vehicle itself from claiming one either, you simply measure how close the embarked unit is to the objective from the hull of the vehicle. This way a unit with ObSec embarked on a non-ObSec transport can claim the objective using that rule and conversely an ObSec transport can use that rule to claim an objective even with a non-ObSec unit embarked on it.

 EnTyme wrote:
Units embarked on a transport share (most) rules with that transport...

I would love to see the quote and/or reference that states that.

I can actually tell you of a few cases where that is where it is only allowed in specific cases, and calls it out as such, and aside from Psychic Powers, the Vehicles are all Dedicated Transports.

I think you can decide which unit is capturing the objective -- the transport, or the troops unit. This seemed very strange to me the first time I heard about it, but after reading the rules again I guess it's possible/allowed.

 Charistoph wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
Units embarked on a transport share (most) rules with that transport...

I would love to see the quote and/or reference that states that.

I can actually tell you of a few cases where that is where it is only allowed in specific cases, and calls it out as such, and aside from Psychic Powers, the Vehicles are all Dedicated Transports.

Transports with embarked units are considered a combined unit, are they not? Unit-level rules are shared with the whole unit. I've seen you make this exact argument.

No, they're not. At all. They're ALWAYS separate units.

 Cleatus wrote:
I think you can decide which unit is capturing the objective -- the transport, or the troops unit. This seemed very strange to me the first time I heard about it, but after reading the rules again I guess it's possible/allowed.

You don't even have to choose which unit is claiming it, the transport and the unit embarked on it are both controlling the objective unless there is also an enemy unit within 3". A unit can only ever claim one objective at a time (you must declare which Objective Marker it is claiming if it's within 3" of multiple objectives) but we aren't told to declare which unit is claiming an objective if we have more than one unit within 3" of a single objective. We're just told that "you control an Objective Marker if there is at least one model from one of your scoring units, and no models from enemy scoring units, within 3" of it".

 EnTyme wrote:
Transports with embarked units are considered a combined unit, are they not? Unit-level rules are shared with the whole unit. I've seen you make this exact argument.

They are not the same unit. No rule states that they are. There are rules that allow them to combine a reserves roll, and the special rules Infiltrate, Outflank and Scout specifically state they are shared with a dedicated transport if beginning embarked. That's it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No, they're not. At all. They're ALWAYS separate units.

Well, they are separate units, but the obsec unit is still inside the transport vehicle. So, ork boyz (have obsec) in a battlewagon (no obsec) are within 3" of an objective. Boyz are inside the battlewagon, which is within 3" of the objective. Consequently, the boyz are within 3" of the objective, as they are inside the battlewagon.

Which is not the same as them being combined as a unit.

They are still very much 2 separate units that occupy the same space.

 Quanar wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
Transports with embarked units are considered a combined unit, are they not? Unit-level rules are shared with the whole unit. I've seen you make this exact argument.

They are not the same unit. No rule states that they are. There are rules that allow them to combine a reserves roll, and the special rules Infiltrate, Outflank and Scout specifically state they are shared with a dedicated transport if beginning embarked. That's it.

Hmm. Maybe I'm extrapolating the reserve rules then. Either way, as other said, the unit inside is considered to be <3" away if the transport is <3" away, so the objective is still being controlled by an ObSec unit.

Other threads that have already discussed this topic:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602834.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/642774.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1560/643980.page#8335775

In 6th ed a unit embarked on a transport was specifically listed as not counting as a scoring unit. There is no such restriction in 7th ed.

Unlike 6th, almost every unit in 7th is a scoring unit though, so that reminder would be rather redundant.

What units don't score in 7th these days? I know spawns and daemon princes resulting from a boon table roll don't score, but that is pretty much it.

nareik wrote:
What units don't score in 7th these days? I know spawns and daemon princes resulting from a boon table roll don't score, but that is pretty much it.

Things that are Swooping, Zooming or embarked in something that is Zooming. Also, units that are falling back.

 EnTyme wrote:
Hmm. Maybe I'm extrapolating the reserve rules then.

Or you've just been playing with people who assume it is so. My group had some heated discussions on it too, with some guys thinking their Fast transports somehow granted the passengers permission to shoot better than the basic Firepoints rule does simply because the transport gets to shoot more guns better when moving.