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Well if all we're looking to do is to get the Tetrad to jink or to wound it, then 490 pt ally Imperial Guard:

Company Command Squad: Vets get Flakk missile team
Vet squad: Flakk missile team
2x Punisher Leman Russ w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsoons

Give the Vet squad FRFSRF, or Ignores Cover and let them fire at the DPs, and then have the Punishers fire. Now you're firing 40 shots from the gatling cannons, and 18 shots from the Heavy Bolters at the DPs while the other 1360 pts of your SMs/GKs go and deal with something else.

Doesn't sound like an option you'd like? Alright, then lets stick with the SM codex first:

Land Raider Crusader
Centurion Dev Squad (No Grav Cannons, just vanilla models) - (x2) 9x Bolter/Heavy Bolter shots (all Twin-Linked)
10x SM Tac Squad w/ Heavy Bolter + Plasma Gun
Sternguard - Dragonfire Bolts

Now GK:

Land Raider Crusader
Purgation Squad - 4x Psilencer (24 Potentially ID shots)
10x Strike Squad - 20 Storm Bolter shots
10x Terminator Squad - 20 Storm Bolter shots (Or splash Psilencer)

Just flood the dice pool.

OR...Get rid of the Leman Russ tanks for the IG ally and ally an infantry platoon instead and bring a mass conscript squad and give them FRFSRF. Base conscript squad, that's anywhere from 30 - 50 shots. Give them Prescience and you got yourself a pewpew squad that they might have to consider jinking for..

Except that Traditio's argument is that his Bolters should be able to mow down anything you can potentially put on the table, otherwise you're being a WaaC's TFG and playing the game wrong.

In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Careful now, you'll end up being accused of being a good for nothing, whiny Chaos player who just needs to L2P & 'gitgud'!

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

There is no codex IoM. Come try the BA and see how that goes for you. They're not really any better than the CSM, and don't have access to anything as good as a plague marine. Especially after the grenade nerf. Poison weapons ftw!

Martel732 wrote:

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

There is no codex IoM. Come try the BA and see how that goes for you. They're not really any better than the CSM, and don't have access to anything as good as a plague marine. Especially after the grenade nerf. Poison weapons ftw!

I've played my now 'on permanent hold' Tzeentch Marines as BA's a few times in order to get better access to Psykers & simply 'burning everything in sight' in general.
As long as you're not going up against smash mouth/curbstomping Tournament killing lists, BA's are solidly middle tier.

If the only thing you can play against however is top level fluff abomination filth, then yeah, BA's suck.
They're still better off than CSM's however, and you guys have a freaking complete model line!

Seriously Martel, try building say a 'Tactical Squad', that only comes with 8 bolters... Or try building a usable Terminator Squad that's missing over 50% of it's basic options. Or how would you 'enjoy' having to fork out $220 just to buy a Devastator Squad that can field 4 Autocannons?
Welcome to the world of CSM players.

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Oh great, now you've summoned Martel to complain about how bad BA are yet again.

Getting back on topic.... the attack patterns are incredible, 4+ invulnerables, IWND, Ignores cover, Tank hunter, game long preferred enemy, air superiority... yeah I like these new rules but without fighters, FMC hunting will hurt

Experiment 626 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

There is no codex IoM. Come try the BA and see how that goes for you. They're not really any better than the CSM, and don't have access to anything as good as a plague marine. Especially after the grenade nerf. Poison weapons ftw!

I've played my now 'on permanent hold' Tzeentch Marines as BA's a few times in order to get better access to Psykers & simply 'burning everything in sight' in general.
As long as you're not going up against smash mouth/curbstomping Tournament killing lists, BA's are solidly middle tier.

If the only thing you can play against however is top level fluff abomination filth, then yeah, BA's suck.
They're still better off than CSM's however, and you guys have a freaking complete model line!

Seriously Martel, try building say a 'Tactical Squad', that only comes with 8 bolters... Or try building a usable Terminator Squad that's missing over 50% of it's basic options. Or how would you 'enjoy' having to fork out $220 just to buy a Devastator Squad that can field 4 Autocannons?
Welcome to the world of CSM players.

Models don't really matter to me, but I can see where that would be an irritation on the bits side of things.

There is nothing middle tier about BA. I can army swap and show this over and over as many times as you like.

Back on topic though, my play group likely will not even use this book. We'll wait for it to be rolled into 8th ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Oh great, now you've summoned Martel to complain about how bad BA are yet again.

I could use another bad Imperial list, if you like. How about IG? The point is that codex:IoM doesn't exist.

Martel732 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Oh great, now you've summoned Martel to complain about how bad BA are yet again.

I could use another bad Imperial list, if you like. How about IG? The point is that codex:IoM doesn't exist.

That would be good. Anything but BA would be nice.

francieum wrote:

 godardc wrote:
You know that psychic scream can't hit FMC when they are flying, don't you ?

New FAQ states that scream and other similar witchfires with no profile don't roll to hit.

Yes it does, which means this rule from the rule book takes affect

"In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot."

The FAQ does not rescind that restriction so Scream and similar powers can't affect flyers unless the caster has skyfire.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Oh great, now you've summoned Martel to complain about how bad BA are yet again.

I could use another bad Imperial list, if you like. How about IG? The point is that codex:IoM doesn't exist.

That would be good. Anything but BA would be nice.

Ultimatly though his point is a valid one not every person who runs any IoM army is gonna wanna roll a CentStar or something. sure we CAN but turning that around, chaos deamons are considered pretty powerful these days, but that doesn't mean the CSM codex isn't critically weak.

that said I'm not sure Blood Angels are so much weak as Space Marines are just better. that said Blood Angels would be easy eneugh to FQ/Errata into line, give em the same stat profile as space marines stuff now holds when space marines are better, give em access to the SM fliers and suddenly blood angels are better

BrianDavion wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Oh great, now you've summoned Martel to complain about how bad BA are yet again.

I could use another bad Imperial list, if you like. How about IG? The point is that codex:IoM doesn't exist.

That would be good. Anything but BA would be nice.

Ultimatly though his point is a valid one not every person who runs any IoM army is gonna wanna roll a CentStar or something. sure we CAN but turning that around, chaos deamons are considered pretty powerful these days, but that doesn't mean the CSM codex isn't critically weak.

that said I'm not sure Blood Angels are so much weak as Space Marines are just better. that said Blood Angels would be easy eneugh to FQ/Errata into line, give em the same stat profile as space marines stuff now holds when space marines are better, give em access to the SM fliers and suddenly blood angels are better

The only things Blood Angels need are 7.5ed equivalent rules; Grav cannons, Scout/Dreadnought statline adjustments, Bloodcurion style detachment, better thought out formations, etc...

While it may suck to be the 'have not' Loyalist army, they can get in line and wait for the likes of CSM's who literally need a 110% model line overhaul, and Dark Eldar who critically no longer function at a basic level unless the new FAQ draft gets fixed.

There's the fun fact they might not get Scout and Dreadnought updates though.

It's easy to tell the people who don't play daemons.

I've seen the claim that the only way to get 2++ re-rollable is with Grimoire... Not true. Impossible robes and cursed earth.

I've seen the claim that you get FNP from endurance... Not true- we have these things called greater rewards.. Ever here of them? 4+++ FNP.

I've seen people say DP s are OP. - LOL

The Imfernal Tetrad is nowhere near as bad as some people are saying, but neither is it anywhere as good as others are saying. Bring it with a daemon cad and you can have a pretty nice flying circus (though not major tourney winning) ally in a renegade knight and small daemon cad and you have a pacific rim list that can do ok (but again, not going to win major tourneys)

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Chaos and Orks have the same access to scatbikes that any imperial army has to other imperial goodies. In fact the orks and chaos can take those same imperial goodies. A Libby and 5 marines and you can add in whatever you want, or you can throw in a formation. The very worst you'll have to deal with is not being able to deploy close by and keeping them a little apart mid game.

I just find it really silly that some people complain that a certain faction has better allies when everyone can literally ally with everyone.

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
It's easy to tell the people who don't play daemons.

I've seen the claim that the only way to get 2++ re-rollable is with Grimoire... Not true. Impossible robes and cursed earth.

I've seen the claim that you get FNP from endurance... Not true- we have these things called greater rewards.. Ever here of them? 4+++ FNP.

I've seen people say DP s are OP. - LOL

The Imfernal Tetrad is nowhere near as bad as some people are saying, but neither is it anywhere as good as others are saying. Bring it with a daemon cad and you can have a pretty nice flying circus (though not major tourney winning) ally in a renegade knight and small daemon cad and you have a pacific rim list that can do ok (but again, not going to win major tourneys)

The Tetrad is bad because it's typically a 1000-1200+ points sink that will never earn close to its investment back. Is it fun? Sure it is. But even against another fluff bunny list it's hardly difficult to deal with.
I've gotten to the point that I'm not even paying for wings on my Tzeentch Princes anymore - 40pts is highway robbery on a platform that's already badly overcosted, and is fragile as gak.

As for our various Rewards, yeah, Greater Gifts are damn sweet! But they're about as reliable as claiming that every Prince will automatically be sporting Iron Arm.
2 rolls max is only about a 36%'ish or so chance of getting the better FnP.

Mind you, I much prefer to take a Mutating Warpblade and play 'Spawn Factory' with opposing Sergeant equivalents!

 niv-mizzet wrote:

Franarok wrote:
In general an IoM player saying someone is OP is funny

Chaos and Orks have the same access to scatbikes that any imperial army has to other imperial goodies. In fact the orks and chaos can take those same imperial goodies. A Libby and 5 marines and you can add in whatever you want, or you can throw in a formation. The very worst you'll have to deal with is not being able to deploy close by and keeping them a little apart mid game.

I just find it really silly that some people complain that a certain faction has better allies when everyone can literally ally with everyone.

The whole point of allies is to add new synergies to your force.

If I want to play a fluff abomination, then I'll just build an IoM Superfriends list and get the same thing, only 1000x more effective!

Admittedly I did forget about the impossible robes and greater reward fnp, but in my defense I don't play tzeentch and I've never rolled the fnp result on my Keeper of Secrets before.

But it's not like Greater Rewards are reliable anyway.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Are flyers worse now because flying MCs can still get skyfire all day everyday?

I noticed in the new book that only fighters get skyfire mode anymore

FMC's lost ruin cover saves and vector strike after jinking. That's a serious blow to Tyranids at least. I doubt people will field Hive Crones from now on, and Flyrants becomes even more fragile.