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Doesn't sniper also give precision shots, as it should?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Doesn't sniper also give precision shots, as it should?

Pretty sure it does, think I forgot that.

Trebloc wrote:

Any way to reduce or combine unit types? I'm thinking about those that are very similar, or those that are rarely used. Like maybe combine Beast & Cavalry and Bikes & Jetbikes. Get rid of Chariot.

just add movement and size values to the units profile and you can skip unit types completely

 General Kroll wrote:
Yeah, there's really nothing stopping them from redoing all the codices at the start of a new edition. They've certainly done it before.

GW has moved away from the Codex format and into the campaign book format, as evidenced by well... all the evidence.

I doubt there will be a round of new codices anymore, a complete one atleast. Or maybe, just maybe with a huge gap inbetween releases.

tneva82 wrote:

Trebloc wrote:
Remove/combine as many special rules as possible. Just too many. Could probably reduce them by around 1/3 without a huge problem. Also, remove/limit the rules that transfer across the entire unit (it's weird that my Sisters of Battle can only walk 6", but slap Saint Celestine in there for Hit & Run, and they can suddenly "jump" out of combat up to 18" away). I think if few/no rules transfer, a lot of unintended combinations would go away.

GW made clean slate with AOS. What did we get? Even more special rules! Everything has to have special rule.

Don't expect them to trim down number of special rules. Expect even more. Every unit needs to have awesome special rule to make the it stand out!

It's not quite the same. The problem I have is that each unit has several lists of special rules that one has to find is several books and keep track of and remember all the time.

You can say that AoS has special rules for each unit, but it's more like each unit has a handful of unique rules. This adds much more flavour and is easier to keep track of, becauseo AoS has less special rules per unit


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 Wolfblade wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Doesn't sniper also give precision shots, as it should?

Pretty sure it does, think I forgot that.

What I'm talking about...

Its not that hard to forget though. Sniper rifles being able to allocate wounds is pretty logical.

Two sets of rules. One for large scale games and a more in depth set of rules for smaller games.

 DarkBlack wrote:


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 Wolfblade wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Doesn't sniper also give precision shots, as it should?

Pretty sure it does, think I forgot that.

What I'm talking about...

I suppose I should also I say I almost NEVER use snipers as the the two units who have them in my army (kroot or sniper drones) I usually never take, and same with my local group. If I used them more, or others did, I'd sure remember the rules.

Huron black heart wrote:
Two sets of rules. One for large scale games and a more in depth set of rules for smaller games.

To be fair this could easily be done with a more streamlined abstract base set of rules, and then an Appendix that adds the extra special rules for smaller scale games where those things matter more.

I would like Stomp, Thunderblitz, and Seize the Initiative to stop being in the rulebook entirely.

I would like to see psychic disciplines that aren't Daemonology or Telepathy buffed up to equal them.

I desire no other changes.

A Codex: Ecclesiarchy or Mknistorum with a combined forces of the Frateris Militia, Sisters of Battle, and maybe some Arbites related things mixed in to bring the Heresy hunting forces to a larger Army feel.

Bonus points for plastic Sisters and rules that make the Sororitas units better at hunting Witches. Also points drops across the board, especially since Scouts are 10 points a model, have a largley better statline (+1 WS/I/T), rules (ATSKNF/CT which are always on rules vs the AoF which are limited in use and tend to be worse) and are cheaper with only a dip in their armour save to compensate. I'm not asking for Guardsmen prices, just Space Marine scout prices.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I would like Stomp, Thunderblitz, and Seize the Initiative to stop being in the rulebook entirely.

I would like to see psychic disciplines that aren't Daemonology or Telepathy buffed up to equal them.

I am curious as to what reasons you have for wanting to get rid of stomp, thunderblitz and Seize the initiative....


I don't think that the Technomancy really needs any buffing. In a rather devastating, yet fun game, the local GK player took his librarians with technomancy, and managed to roll the power that lets you control and shoot the guns of an opponents' vehicle... yeah, that got rough, pretty quickly (until a knight gallant was able to take care of that problem)

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I would like Stomp, Thunderblitz, and Seize the Initiative to stop being in the rulebook entirely.

I would like to see psychic disciplines that aren't Daemonology or Telepathy buffed up to equal them.

I am curious as to what reasons you have for wanting to get rid of stomp, thunderblitz and Seize the initiative....


I don't think that the Technomancy really needs any buffing. In a rather devastating, yet fun game, the local GK player took his librarians with technomancy, and managed to roll the power that lets you control and shoot the guns of an opponents' vehicle... yeah, that got rough, pretty quickly (until a knight gallant was able to take care of that problem)

That power is the primaris power. He didn't have to roll it. But its success rate is so very low....

Consolidating into assaults (as a disordered charge and subject to overwatch as normal) would be great to see back.

Movement stats and old Fantasy charge rules would be nice too (movement plus roll for charge. Half distance if you fail).

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

I am curious as to what reasons you have for wanting to get rid of stomp, thunderblitz and Seize the initiative....

Stomp can not only kill things regardless of what those things might be, it can do so from 15" away from the guy doing the Stomping and any assault it is involved in. Meanwhile, you can't even shoot back at the thing doing the Stomping, since it's in assault. This is too much violation of the normal game state.

Seize the Initiative simply holds more weight than any single die roll should over the course of one game.

Sieze the initiative is in to balance to potential power of going first. It forces more strategic deployments in case you end up losing first turn privileges instead of letting people set up to stop face without their opponent getting a chance to go.

That said I always liked going second. It lets me play a bit more defensively at the start and ensures I'll always get the last move (save for the Harlequin warlord trait) so I can ensure that late game if I control key points I win.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

I am curious as to what reasons you have for wanting to get rid of stomp, thunderblitz and Seize the initiative....

Stomp can not only kill things regardless of what those things might be, it can do so from 15" away from the guy doing the Stomping and any assault it is involved in. Meanwhile, you can't even shoot back at the thing doing the Stomping, since it's in assault. This is too much violation of the normal game state.

Seize the Initiative simply holds more weight than any single die roll should over the course of one game.

Seize the Initiative is dumb, but fun at times. Stomp needs to be removed, or massively nerfed. The fact that it can kill Primarchs is mega stupid.

Pretty sure being stepped on by a super heavy should be a potential death sentence for any who suffer it. That said I think it should be limited to models within 2" of the base.

tneva82 wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:

 Runic wrote:
The game being balanced is a fantasy I'm afraid, no one should expect that or they will be sorely disappointed.

To balance the game would require a rewrite of most codices and supplements and FW books, and that's obviously not gonna happen. Unless ofc the designers come up with some clever solution that bypasses that workload somehow.

I expect a cool new whole faction, Imperium of Man getting a nerf allies wise/xenos codices faring better and rules that have been clarified (seems to be happening already.)

Yeah, there's really nothing stopping them from redoing all the codices at the start of a new edition. They've certainly done it before.

3rd ed and fb 6th ed too. Pretty sure my 2nd ed codexes isn't all that usable in 3rd ed

Nothing stops them if they decide they want to do it. Their product, they can do whatever they wish and it's never resulted in game total death(AOS got closest and even that has it's fans...). Hey theoretically it COULD be even move that would win them popularity if done right!

But really what would be reason they couldn't do it? Not going to invalidate recent books? False. They invalidated FB armybook within year or so(vampire counts in 5th->6th ed) and of course every end times book in FB got invalidated with the AOS. Expensive hardbacks and last one invalidated in mere months...

It might be the language or something, but I'm really struggling to see your point here.

Wolfblade wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:
However rending always wounds on a 6 in addition to becoming AP2, bladestorm is only ap2 on a 6, and sniper is not-poison 4+, and ap2 on a 6.

They are all very similar though, and I don't think rationalising them all into one rule would take away anything vital from the game. For example it would be easy to give Shuriken Catipults the rending special rule, and the sniper rifle the rending special rule in addition to a special rule that stated something always wounded on a 4+ You could even do away with the poison special rule and rename it the wound special rule. It would perform the same task within the game.

That might actually be a huge buff for a lot of weapons. Vs everything that isn't a vehicle, it's flat out better than gauss. Instead of JUST wounding, it's also denying any armor save too. Not to mention the D3 extra armor pen on a 6, which allows an S4 wep to glance everything but AV14 with some luck.

There's also a few units (some nurgle stuff maybe? I forget) that cause poison to be less effective besides GMC.

If it's a buff then so be it. I don't think it would really be THAT huge.

 General Kroll wrote:


If it's a buff then so be it. I don't think it would really be THAT huge.

Its goes from the basic gun being unable to kill say, a rhino on front/side armor to killing it on a 6. It's like super gauss for non vehicles. And let's be honest, Eldar don't need MORE power, which in turn would create a bigger gap in the current imbalance of power. Simplicity is not always better.

I've seen one other person mention it, I think re-working a lot of what is out here into a d10 system would help. Stats ranked 1-10 just seem limited to me with a d6. Plus it would allow armour to mean something again if the AP system was re-balanced with it. I don't see it actually happening, but I don't see allies or unbound going away either.

Nocturus wrote:
I've seen one other person mention it, I think re-working a lot of what is out here into a d10 system would help. Stats ranked 1-10 just seem limited to me with a d6. Plus it would allow armour to mean something again if the AP system was re-balanced with it. I don't see it actually happening, but I don't see allies or unbound going away either.

That was me. It would work out quite nicely, too.

Well, nerf the grav weapons is a must. The actual gravs weapons are so fething broke

Also a revision of all the psi powers. There are to may to much powerful. Also there are no control: some armies have access to near all the powers of the book in addition several exclusives and other armies only have their esclusive....no fair

The walkers should be buffed somehow

Franarok wrote:
Well, nerf the grav weapons is a must. The actual gravs weapons are so fething broke

Also a revision of all the psi powers. There are to may to much powerful. Also there are no control: some armies have access to near all the powers of the book in addition several exclusives and other armies only have their esclusive....no fair

The walkers should be buffed somehow

Only if MCs are nerfed first. Or rather, the "problem" MCs, as many will insist.

Buff vehicles by giving them saving throws like everyone else, nerf MCs by letting you cripple them as they take damage.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Buff vehicles by giving them saving throws like everyone else, nerf MCs by letting you cripple them as they take damage.

The problem is that Riptides, DKs, and WKs never take said damage.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

I am curious as to what reasons you have for wanting to get rid of stomp, thunderblitz and Seize the initiative....

Stomp can not only kill things regardless of what those things might be, it can do so from 15" away from the guy doing the Stomping and any assault it is involved in. Meanwhile, you can't even shoot back at the thing doing the Stomping, since it's in assault. This is too much violation of the normal game state.

Seize the Initiative simply holds more weight than any single die roll should over the course of one game.

Lol, I guess I've been playing Stomp wrong all this time..... But then again, when I'm using stomp (usually with my knights) I keep the markers within the current combat because I'm usually trying to get it OUT of combat, or I may be trying to roll like gak so that it can't be shot the next round


While I see what you're saying about Seize the Initiative, others have addressed the "pro" argument better than I could have, and I rather agree with them.


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Martel732 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Buff vehicles by giving them saving throws like everyone else, nerf MCs by letting you cripple them as they take damage.

The problem is that Riptides, DKs, and WKs never take said damage.

Based on my own experience and exposure to those units, the DK dies. Riptides CAN die, they just take a bit of work. It's WKs that never seem to fail anything, especially with FNP.

 Wolfblade wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:
However rending always wounds on a 6 in addition to becoming AP2, bladestorm is only ap2 on a 6, and sniper is not-poison 4+, and ap2 on a 6.

They are all very similar though, and I don't think rationalising them all into one rule would take away anything vital from the game. For example it would be easy to give Shuriken Catipults the rending special rule, and the sniper rifle the rending special rule in addition to a special rule that stated something always wounded on a 4+ You could even do away with the poison special rule and rename it the wound special rule. It would perform the same task within the game.

That might actually be a huge buff for a lot of weapons. Vs everything that isn't a vehicle, it's flat out better than gauss. Instead of JUST wounding, it's also denying any armor save too. Not to mention the D3 extra armor pen on a 6, which allows an S4 wep to glance everything but AV14 with some luck.

There's also a few units (some nurgle stuff maybe? I forget) that cause poison to be less effective besides GMC.

You may want to check the bolded part in your rule book, IIRC they ditched the additional D3 in the last change.

Cheers

Andrew

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Buff vehicles by giving them saving throws like everyone else, nerf MCs by letting you cripple them as they take damage.

I've personally tried to come up with a number of different ways to approach the Vehicle Saving Throws and it usually comes down to something that's either over-powered, overly complicated, or both. Maybe GW can come up with a better solution than the half-a-dozen or so solutions I've come up with, but the better approach seems to be making vehicles harder to kill via other means (not to too my own horn, but this is an example). Honestly, Saving Throws for vehicles is a good idea but the impracticality of it has made me skeptical.

I like the idea Crippling MC's, but just like with the Vehicle Saving Throws, the nature of putting something like that into practice has made me skeptical haha.

Nocturus wrote:
I've seen one other person mention it, I think re-working a lot of what is out here into a d10 system would help. Stats ranked 1-10 just seem limited to me with a d6. Plus it would allow armour to mean something again if the AP system was re-balanced with it. I don't see it actually happening, but I don't see allies or unbound going away either.

Only downside to this is D6 stack nicer (for storage and shipping, hance those little cubes GW sells them ib) and tend to be cheaper to buy large quanities. I learned that after stocking up on D10s for Dark Heresy.