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Crazyterran wrote:Someone mentioned Sevrin Loth: note that Sevrin Loth may only roll on the new powers at the moment, but he may not pick from them. He can only pick from Biomancy, Telepathy, and Telekinesis.
I mentioned Sevrin Loth and yes; there is no rule allowing him to pick powers from the new disciplines, only to roll on them. I brought up Sevrin Loth to suppose that the new powers would overrule the restriction to which powers a units may take - for example the DW librarian that can only take biomancy. I am aware that this does not currently allow that librarian to take the new powers as there is nothing RAW stating that he may, but it was to address someone's objection that he would be limited by the biomancy restriction.
That's the reference card for this product, for the rulebook psychic disciplines. That just goes to show that Reference Cards simply do not give access to disciplines on a unit level and that even leaving a discipline unused by a faction is common, even if the faction has access to the discipline.
The point of showing that is to point out that a Faction having a particular discipline available to it according to the reference card does not mean that all Psykers within that Faction have access to those disciplines, as evidenced in Astra Militarum, Daemons etc. where a particular Psyker unit has access to a certain discipline while another Psyker unit has access to other disciplines.
I think retrogamer's point was that there has been a blood angels codex update since the card was released, hence the change in powers available to them (I cannot say for certain as I do not have the new BA codex to compare).
Your point about disciples available to certain codices vs disciplines available to units within said codex remains.
Edit: spelling
On the old ref card Astra Militarum has access to ALL classic disciplines, same as Inquisition - but both factions have no unit with access to at least one of those disciplines.
The DW guy is clearly intended to be limited to biomancy, so I think he shouldn't gain access to the new ones at all. There's good reason to say the "Librarius" isn't available to SM Factions that do not have Librarians, specifically Space Wolves. Just two examples where I think that the intent probably isn't "sure, give them those powers, too".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/05 08:16:50
nekooni wrote: Future use? By mistake? Why has the Astra Militarum access to ALL regular disciplines?
To be fair, probably because the Astra Militarum codex states the Primaris Psyker has access to Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy and Telekinesis and the Astropath has access to Telepathy, plus the rulebook states they have access to Malefic and Sanctic Daemonology as well as Force if they have a weapon with the Force special rule (which the Primaris Psyker does).
But once again, that highlights how a Faction may overall have access to a range of disciplines while only certain Psykers within that Faction have access to specific disciplines.
I love you guys but sometimes you guys are on another level. Sometimes you can create problems with RAI vs RAW and I think its done intentionally to start a debate to display intellect that is not appreciated due to the fact that the debate is an unneccessary evil.
Could it be worded better yes, but what cannot be worded better?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/05 14:32:47
CKO wrote: I love you guys but sometimes you guys are on another level. Sometimes you can create problems with RAI vs RAW and I think its done intentionally to start a debate to display intellect that is not appreciated due to the fact that the debate is an unneccessary evil.
I feel like this is another example of a common mistake on this forum, which is assuming that those involved in intensive or very particular rules arguments actually play their games in the same way. Certainly for myself I do not, and I think discussions such as this have a lot of value in terms of quickly resolving actual queries or disagreements in game. Those that cannot be quickly or otherwise agreeably resolved have a roll off, as they should.
This is a rules discussion forum, after all.
Could it be worded better yes, but what cannot be worded better?
Sure, but given we've got a number of Factions we know have access to a wide range of disciplines per the reference cards yet only certain units within that Faction having access to one or a few of those disciplines and another unit having access to the others, it's not simply a matter of saying, "Ah yes, clearly all Psyker units in those Factions should have the same access."
It's further complicated by Grey Knights being made up entirely of Psykers, yes despite it being clear the majority of their units know only specific powers. One could easily say, "Well if we accept a Grey Knights Strike Squad is allowed only to know the powers specified why can we not insist a Grey Knights Librarian or Brother Captain is allowed to know only the Disciplines specified in the same way?"
Yes, my HIWPI is to allow all Librarians or equivalent thereof, as well as the Grey Knight Brother Captain, to have access to those powers, but given the precedent elsewhere it's not at all right to say, "Oh it's so obviously this for sure with no doubt whatsoever."
I don't see it mentioned in this thread yet, but it was in the previous thread that this was argued in. I believe the intent is clearly to allow the special marines to use the new powers, considering the website explicitly calls them out when talking about the new powers when you go to the page to buy the book. But then the book itself only calls out Space Marine Faction. So it falls to the players to decide if space marine faction in this callout applies to DA, BA, etc. as well. The only other time "Space Marine Faction" is specifically mentioned to include those extra books is in the CSM codex.
The "who can generate" question is silly. If we believe the rule callout to mean blood angels can generate these powers, then it's any psyker in the blood angels codex, as stated in the rule callout. This question doesn't really apply to the argument, because it explicitly states "any psyker" can generate these powers. This would (if we believe BA can access the powers) mean that any psyker can use them, due to the codex being older than AoD, so it adds the rules to it. Some people seem to be using this argument (maybe not this thread) to say "Well the codex doesn't say it!" Of course the codex doesn't say it. It can't. Neither does the SM codex. The rules are in AoD.
RAW I think the arguments are stronger to mean vanilla marines only, but RAI I think they fethed it up badly, and meant for all marines to be able to generate from the new powers (if the model/unit generates powers and doesn't come preloaded, like GK troops). The wording really screws over people that bought the book thinking they could use the powers because they're literally told they're able to until they read the book, as well.
BossJakadakk wrote: I don't see it mentioned in this thread yet, but it was in the previous thread that this was argued in. I believe the intent is clearly to allow the special marines to use the new powers, considering the website explicitly calls them out when talking about the new powers when you go to the page to buy the book. But then the book itself only calls out Space Marine Faction. So it falls to the players to decide if space marine faction in this callout applies to DA, BA, etc. as well. The only other time "Space Marine Faction" is specifically mentioned to include those extra books is in the CSM codex.
The "who can generate" question is silly. If we believe the rule callout to mean blood angels can generate these powers, then it's any psyker in the blood angels codex, as stated in the rule callout. This question doesn't really apply to the argument, because it explicitly states "any psyker" can generate these powers. This would (if we believe BA can access the powers) mean that any psyker can use them, due to the codex being older than AoD, so it adds the rules to it. Some people seem to be using this argument (maybe not this thread) to say "Well the codex doesn't say it!" Of course the codex doesn't say it. It can't. Neither does the SM codex. The rules are in AoD.
RAW I think the arguments are stronger to mean vanilla marines only, but RAI I think they fethed it up badly, and meant for all marines to be able to generate from the new powers (if the model/unit generates powers and doesn't come preloaded, like GK troops). The wording really screws over people that bought the book thinking they could use the powers because they're literally told they're able to until they read the book, as well.
AoD is an SM supplement and provides rule support for SM use of the new disciplines. There are (currently) no other rules granting any special marine units access to the new disciplines.
It would have been very easy to include an rules for the special marine factions in AoD. Not clean, but easy. Cleaner might be publishing rules for the special marine factions in an WD issue or in an upcomming campaign book.
Access by faction means very little, as demonstrated by the reference card provided with the 7th Ed Psychic powers deck. A tick doesn't imply access for all units or access without purchasing an artefact from a codex supplement for example.
nekooni wrote: Still no unit in GK codex has access to it. The regular psychic reference card also shows discipline access for factions that have no unit that actually uses it.
Wait like which..? All listed factions have Psykers no? I think it would be fairly ridiculous for anyone to argue against you using the new disciplines on the grounds that whilst your faction can use it none of your units can...
There are no rules supporting or defining access for special marine faction units to the new disciplines.
Without rules providing permission, it is quite ridiculous to just assume that every psyker in a special marine faction has access to all new disciplines at no opportunity cost and expect opponents to be fine with that.
If you choose to ignore the quick reference chart then yes it would be ridiculous.
Otherwise it is ridiculous not to think that the quick reference chart counts as rules indicating exactly which factions can now take which new powers - which it does.
nekooni wrote: Still no unit in GK codex has access to it. The regular psychic reference card also shows discipline access for factions that have no unit that actually uses it.
Wait like which..? All listed factions have Psykers no? I think it would be fairly ridiculous for anyone to argue against you using the new disciplines on the grounds that whilst your faction can use it none of your units can...
There are no rules supporting or defining access for special marine faction units to the new disciplines.
Without rules providing permission, it is quite ridiculous to just assume that every psyker in a special marine faction has access to all new disciplines at no opportunity cost and expect opponents to be fine with that.
If you choose to ignore the quick reference chart then yes it would be ridiculous.
Otherwise it is ridiculous not to think that the quick reference chart counts as rules indicating exactly which factions can now take which new powers - which it does.
Yes it indicates that other factions can use the powers. Now find me a rule that lets specific units within those factions to use the powers. This is the real issue, not whether or not other factions can use them, but which units can.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
I totally understand the argument. Like I said, RAW I agree with you, but I really dislike it. RAI could go either way, I think. As I said, I just believe it was supposed to be all-inclusive due to the advertising on the website (which still says the psychic disciplines are add-ons to the other codices, btw), and the printing of the reference card.
The book itself (per the picture shown) says "Any psyker with the Space Marine Faction" are who get access to the new disciplines. So there is no question of who can generate the powers within a codex, just a debate of "Can BA/DA/etc. access these disciplines" because of the advertising and the reference card. Per the book, no, not unless they clarify that "Faction" is supposed to be all-inclusive. Per everything else, yes.
So, the tick doesn't imply access for all units. I'm not saying it does. It implies access to the discipline for at least one unit. But then, we read the book, and it says "Any psyker." So the logical conclusion (if we were to for some reason agree that BA can use it) would be that any BA psyker that can generate powers can generate them from the new disciplines. IOW, the units that can use the powers are already spelled out as "Any psyker." That's all I'm trying to say. There's not really any fog covering what units would be able to generate the powers. We just need GW to tell us what armies (if any) actually do have access outside vanilla marines.
Seems like some tournaments are allowing what I believe to be the RAI, but again, I agree that would be houseruling. Definitely HIWPI though.
nekooni wrote: Still no unit in GK codex has access to it. The regular psychic reference card also shows discipline access for factions that have no unit that actually uses it.
Wait like which..? All listed factions have Psykers no? I think it would be fairly ridiculous for anyone to argue against you using the new disciplines on the grounds that whilst your faction can use it none of your units can...
There are no rules supporting or defining access for special marine faction units to the new disciplines.
Without rules providing permission, it is quite ridiculous to just assume that every psyker in a special marine faction has access to all new disciplines at no opportunity cost and expect opponents to be fine with that.
If you choose to ignore the quick reference chart then yes it would be ridiculous.
Otherwise it is ridiculous not to think that the quick reference chart counts as rules indicating exactly which factions can now take which new powers - which it does.
Yes it indicates that other factions can use the powers. Now find me a rule that lets specific units within those factions to use the powers. This is the real issue, not whether or not other factions can use them, but which units can.
"Any psyker" is explicitly stated in the rule callout in AoD.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/06 18:48:42
nekooni wrote: Still no unit in GK codex has access to it. The regular psychic reference card also shows discipline access for factions that have no unit that actually uses it.
Wait like which..? All listed factions have Psykers no? I think it would be fairly ridiculous for anyone to argue against you using the new disciplines on the grounds that whilst your faction can use it none of your units can...
There are no rules supporting or defining access for special marine faction units to the new disciplines.
Without rules providing permission, it is quite ridiculous to just assume that every psyker in a special marine faction has access to all new disciplines at no opportunity cost and expect opponents to be fine with that.
If you choose to ignore the quick reference chart then yes it would be ridiculous.
Otherwise it is ridiculous not to think that the quick reference chart counts as rules indicating exactly which factions can now take which new powers - which it does.
Yes it indicates that other factions can use the powers. Now find me a rule that lets specific units within those factions to use the powers. This is the real issue, not whether or not other factions can use them, but which units can.
"Any psyker" is explicitly stated in the rule callout in AoD.
"Any Psyker" or "Any Psyker of the Space Marine Faction"?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/06 18:51:39
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
nekooni wrote: Still no unit in GK codex has access to it. The regular psychic reference card also shows discipline access for factions that have no unit that actually uses it.
Wait like which..? All listed factions have Psykers no? I think it would be fairly ridiculous for anyone to argue against you using the new disciplines on the grounds that whilst your faction can use it none of your units can...
There are no rules supporting or defining access for special marine faction units to the new disciplines.
Without rules providing permission, it is quite ridiculous to just assume that every psyker in a special marine faction has access to all new disciplines at no opportunity cost and expect opponents to be fine with that.
If you choose to ignore the quick reference chart then yes it would be ridiculous.
Otherwise it is ridiculous not to think that the quick reference chart counts as rules indicating exactly which factions can now take which new powers - which it does.
Yes it indicates that other factions can use the powers. Now find me a rule that lets specific units within those factions to use the powers. This is the real issue, not whether or not other factions can use them, but which units can.
"Any psyker" is explicitly stated in the rule callout in AoD.
"Any Psyker" or "Any Psyker of the Space Marine Faction"?
"'Any Psyker with the Space Marines Faction..."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/06 18:57:36
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Why would you over look the quick reference chart? I believe the chart was made to make life easier for those of us who do not think to much about rules and who want a simple answer. To fabricate reasons that contradicts the simple and logical response that one would have after reading a reference chart seems to be rules lawyering.
If I knew about the quick reference chart I would have never asked the question! To bring up another question about who is just deviating away from the fact that the answer to the original question is simple. So as a response a new debate is started about who is a psyker?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/06/06 19:18:43
"Any Psyker" or "Any Psyker of the Space Marine Faction"?
Technically, both. (I do realize that what you're saying is there's a modifier)
But the question is more (in my mind) "What armies comprise the Space Marine Faction?" Not "What units have access to the powers?" These are different questions. Again, the units that would have access if we believe BA are part of the SM Faction is spelled out.
If you say that it's only referring to what units within C:SM get access, then I feel like your argument is simply that the reference card was printed wrong, and that Space Marine Faction simply means C:SM.
What if it simply said "The Space Marine Faction may access these disciplines"? Would anyone be arguing that tactical squads could take them, because it didn't specify psykers?
BossJakadakk wrote: But the question is more (in my mind) "What armies comprise the Space Marine Faction?" Not "What units have access to the powers?" These are different questions. Again, the units that would have access if we believe BA are part of the SM Faction is spelled out.
Check 'Factions' (pg. 118, main rulebook). It's abundantly clear that Blood Angels are not of the 'Space Marines Faction'. Blood Angels are of the 'Blood Angels Faction'.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Here is a simple thing Who are Space marines? Blood Angels are a type of Space Marine, So are Space Wolves, So are Deathwatch, Grey Knights are some sort of super Space Marine. All this back and forth is rule lawyering cause someone doesn't like it and wants it different. The quick reference Chart which is a GW document quite plainly says what is what.
"We have all and none. Death better come to the other bastard first." - SSG Alton, 19th Valerian Light Infantry Regiment
"With iron and fire the beast shall be lain low at the hands of the Hunters whose home is under the Bloodmoon." - Bloodmoon Hunters Chapter
"Bring on the Angels of Blood and Darkness as thy descend from the heavens to smite our enemies. Let the Wolves of war rend and tear our foes to pieces. And we of the Bloodmoon Hunters shall bring the iron and fire as our vehicles crush all that oppose us under our treads." - Tech-Captain of the Bloodmoon Hunters
My 40k Armies:
Bloodmoon Hunters (Iron Hands Successors)
Lunar Venatorii Regiments (Astra Miltarium)
Mjior Prime Expediton (Skitarii/Admech)
Ordo Machinum (Inquisition)
Codex: Angels of Death is a space marine supplement, which is why it just states space marines.
I actually bought the new cards and not the AoD supplement.
So for the rules for the new cards, the only thing to go by is the reference sheet that came with the cards which clearly states which factions can use them.
Nobody is. RaW that doesn't do much because it says that they have access to the powers but not who. For example it says Space Wolves have access to Geokinesis but with what unit? Could be just Njal or it could be Grey Hunters. The card doesn't give any unit permission to access the power.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
BossJakadakk wrote: But the question is more (in my mind) "What armies comprise the Space Marine Faction?" Not "What units have access to the powers?" These are different questions. Again, the units that would have access if we believe BA are part of the SM Faction is spelled out.
Check 'Factions' (pg. 118, main rulebook). It's abundantly clear that Blood Angels are not of the 'Space Marines Faction'. Blood Angels are of the 'Blood Angels Faction'.
I know, and that's why I agree with your assessment RAW. I just object to people trying to prove the point of "OK fine let's say the BA can use the powers, which units have access? NONE!" It takes away from the debate by asking a totally irrelevant question. If you acknowledge psykers from BA can take these powers (and therefore are covered under the rules callout that states "Any psyker from the SM Faction...", then psykers from BA can take these powers. "Any psyker" is HIWPI, but definitely not RAW.
If you disagree with the reference card, then you likely think it was not meant to be printed how it is. That's a logical assumption based on the supplement book.
There is also precedent (but only one I think?) of when "Space Marines" includes all space marine codices (CSM Hatred: SM). This isn't how they wrote AoD though, so RAW it really is just vanilla manila. It's a restriction I really believe they didn't think through enough, though. I believe the writers thought that "Space Marine Faction" means something different than it does RAW.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/06/06 20:08:47
We have specific permission for any Psyker with the Space Marines Faction to use the new Disciplines. ONLY Psykers chosen from Codex: Space Marines have the Space Marines Faction.
Psykers chosen from Codex: Blood Angels do not have the Space Marines Faction.
Psykers chosen from Codex: Space Wolves do not have the Space Marines Faction.
Psykers chosen from Codex: Dark Angels do not have the Space Marines Faction.
Psykers chosen from Codex: Grey Knights do not have the Space Marines Faction.
Until there is an FAQ or Errata telling us which non-Space Marines Faction Psykers have access to the new Disciplines... none of them do. The reference card implies that they might in the future, but currently we have no wording anywhere granting any Psykers from a non-Space Marines Faction access to the new Disciplines.
I know some of you are convinced that Blood Angels have the Space Marines Faction. They don't. Go back and reread the rule book. If you don't understand such a core concept, you really shouldn't be participating in such an emphatic way in a rules debate. The concept of a Faction is absolutely critical to how an army is constructed. Can you put a unit of Sanguinary Guard into a Grey Knights Detachment? Nope. Why not? They have different Factions and that's not allowed. Can you give a Blood Angels Psyker a Psychic Power from a Discipline that only Space Marines Faction Psykers have access to? Nope. Why not? Wrong Faction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, these sorts of discussions could be avoided by doing what they really need to do. Axe the Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolf Codexes and roll them into Codex: Space Marines just like all the other First Founding Chapters.
There is no Codex: Salamanders or Codex: Iron Hands. Why should there be a Codex: Blood Angels? Having their own Codex means they don't get all the toys that Vanilla Marines get. This includes the new Psychic Powers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/06 20:11:10
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BossJakadakk wrote: There is also precedent (but only one I think?) of when "Space Marines" includes all space marine codices (CSM Hatred: SM). This isn't how they wrote AoD though, so RAW it really is just vanilla manila. It's a restriction I really believe they didn't think through enough, though. I believe the writers thought that "Space Marine Faction" means something different than it does RAW.
Its not a precedent, as the Designers Note in Codex Chaos Space Marines is quite specific in that it applies to rules in that book which provide 'Preferred Enemy (Space Marines)' or 'Hatred (Space Marines)' and never says anything at all about the 'Space Marines Faction'.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
BossJakadakk wrote: There is also precedent (but only one I think?) of when "Space Marines" includes all space marine codices (CSM Hatred: SM). This isn't how they wrote AoD though, so RAW it really is just vanilla manila. It's a restriction I really believe they didn't think through enough, though. I believe the writers thought that "Space Marine Faction" means something different than it does RAW.
Its not a precedent, as the Designers Note in Codex Chaos Space Marines is quite specific in that it applies to rules in that book which provide 'Preferred Enemy (Space Marines)' or 'Hatred (Space Marines)' and never says anything at all about the 'Space Marines Faction'.
Agreed. You can also have Preferred Enemy (Characters) or (Psykers), so Preferred Enemy doesn't necessarily refer to a given Faction. In fact, Preferred Enemy identifies a specific "type of foe". Preferred Enemy (Tau Empire) would refer to a type of foe called a "Tau Empire" type foe. We assume that to mean Tau Empire Faction. Similarly, we assume Space Marines means Space Marines Faction. The callout in the CSM book is because the author's intention doesn't match with the most reasonable (and widespread) interpretation.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
BossJakadakk wrote: There is also precedent (but only one I think?) of when "Space Marines" includes all space marine codices (CSM Hatred: SM). This isn't how they wrote AoD though, so RAW it really is just vanilla manila. It's a restriction I really believe they didn't think through enough, though. I believe the writers thought that "Space Marine Faction" means something different than it does RAW.
Its not a precedent, as the Designers Note in Codex Chaos Space Marines is quite specific in that it applies to rules in that book which provide 'Preferred Enemy (Space Marines)' or 'Hatred (Space Marines)' and never says anything at all about the 'Space Marines Faction'.
That's valid, I was actually just wondering if it said "Faction" in the callout or not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And really the only reason I'm even here is because I almost bought the book thinking I'd be able to use the powers with my small BA force, due to the fact that the website explicitly tells us the book has new powers for all librarians among all the SM armies. Once I saw the quoted part of AoD, I was like wtf. Then I saw the reference card. Even further wtf.
So much wtf with this release. That's the reason I acknowledge RAW, but am very in favor for a forgiving RAI/HIWPI playstyle (and yeah I know this board is for RAW, I've been agreeing with RAW-vanilla-only)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/06 20:24:34
BossJakadakk, this board is not necessarily for RAW. however RAW plays a big part (which is why it's important to note if you are talking RAW/HYWPI). That said, I don't think many people play strict RAW in this case and are fine with Psykers that generate powers from the various Adeptus Astartes, being allowed to roll on these.
I know my group plays this way (can't recall if all GK can generate or not).
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
Happyjew wrote: BossJakadakk, this board is not necessarily for RAW. however RAW plays a big part (which is why it's important to note if you are talking RAW/HYWPI). That said, I don't think many people play strict RAW in this case and are fine with Psykers that generate powers from the various Adeptus Astartes, being allowed to roll on these.
I know my group plays this way (can't recall if all GK can generate or not).
Oh really? That's actually good to know, even though I do try to make sure I say when I'm talking about HIWPI and such.
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(I do realize that what you're saying is there's a modifier)
Bloodmoon Hunters (Iron Hands Successors)
Lunar Venatorii Regiments (Astra Miltarium)
Ordo Machinum (Inquisition) 
