Mr Morden wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Really? Everyone gets a cavalry option? Not only would that be arguably OP if they were equivalent with TWC, it'd butcher fluff. I could however see assault bikes instead with 2 wounds and t 5 if they wanted to make up for it.

Depends - if they were actually pointed correctly (shock) they would be fine if as you say to have assault bike/cavalry.

The fluff is butchered anyway with regards to Marines - Vanilla and Flavoured looking hard at Centurions and ."flavour units" plus the explosion of SM flyers.

Oh please.

We're talking about a setting where lost technology is found almost every day and immediately put back into production if it was for the Astartes. It's been that way for how long?

er never.

Most "new" SM vehicles were a result of wrangles with the Adeptus Mechanicus and took quite some time to appear following the actual discovery.

Sadly GW decided that rather than bring out a series of "fluff" units for many and varied Chapters they would just keep hammering away at the same old Chapters and make sillier and sillier flavoured units like Wolfs on a wolf sleigh being pulled by.......guess what Wolves,

 Mr Morden wrote:
And how long did it take for them to make the knives into standard weapons for the Astartes - was it immediately because as you know very well that's not what happens - it takes time.

Yeah Centurions were not ham-fistedly crammed into the range - oh wait.

Yeah all the new flyers were not hamifistedly crammed in.

Yeah the Super Wolf Sleigh was not crammed in.

Wolves were originally just something that accompanied Leman Russ, then they got pushed in more as the Codex became more and more Wolfy- the original army list for the Wolves back in Chapter Approved had nothing of the sort but rather than making more inersting stuff for more Chapters they had to keep ramping up the flavour to a million

So we got a few Wolves
oh and then Cyberwolves
and then Space Wolves riding Giant Wolves
and then A Space Wolf with Wolf Claws and Wolf Necklace.
A Space Wolf on a Wolf Sleigh being pulled by Wolves
see the pattern its the Same with Blood Angels and Dark Angels

but then you know all this even if you are ignoring it.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Naaris wrote:
There's a part of me that always wanted to make BA army or SW army. I plan to do it when I can set the time and money aside. BA have cool fluff and are unique enough to have their own book like SW and DA and GK.,

All they need is a better codex inline with Spacewolves. Not saying they need Black Rage / Red Thirst Vampire Magic super units like Wulfen, but maybe????

Should everyone in the army have access to Jump Packs, including unique HQ's? Yes.
Should BA Artificer armor provide a 6++ like SW Runic armor? Yes.
Should BA Lightning Claws be called Blood Talons, like dreads, give +1 Str - like wolf claws? Yes.
Should all BA with Jump packs get a rule that each model gets d3 hammer of wrath? Yes!
Should BA have access to Centurions? NO!
Should BA have access to Grav Cannons? NO!
Should BA be given a new weapon like SW did with Helfrost? YES! - How BA get a marine version of Death Spinners - Range 12", Str 6 AP - , Assault 2 - "Blood Boil" - When rolling To Wound for a weapon that has this special rule, use the target’s Initiative instead of its Toughness (note that the model’s Toughness is still used to determine whether an attack has the Instant Death special rule). In addition, if a 6 is rolled To Wound when attacking with a weapon that has this special rule, the Wound is resolved at AP2.

Should Libby Dreads be better or taken in a conclave? Yes.
Wouldn't it make more sense that Sanguinary priests be treated like Lone Wolves and have no Force Org Slot - allowing them to be taken as one per Troop/Fast/Elite unit taken. Or allow a SPriest to be taken by any infantry or bike or Jump pack unit as a sargent upgrade - FNP for all! YES!
Should the Sanguinor be an MC - Str 6, T6, W5 with FNP and move him to LOW - at his current price? YES!
Should the Techmarine HQ to take a TFC? YES!
Should Mephiston get a 4++ and Eternal warrior at his current price? Yes!

Does the army need a Command Squad, Sternguard Squad and Vanguard Veteran Squad? NO! Should those units be folded into 1 Elite squad that can pick and choose weapons and get some bonuses - Like wolf Guard? YES!
Do they need both types of Terminator Squads listed? No - Just give them Blood Terminators that can pick and choose weapons - Like wolf Guard terminators? Yes!
Should they get Cataphractii Terminators? Yes!
Should they get Super Vampires? Maybe! - or maybe buffs below to DC and Sanguinary Guard are enough coupled with the BA Jump pack buffs and ability to take a SPriest with any squad.
Do their Dreads need a point decrease and more attacks? Yes.
Do Furiosos and DC dreads need more distinctive abilities? Yes.
Should Lemartes be able to be taken as part of a DC upgrade, unit like Lukas the Trickster is for Blood Claws? Yes of course.
Should Sangiunary Guard's death masks give them a 4++ but cost 10ppm? YES!
Should Sanguinary Guard's Axe give +3 Str AP2 and sword give +1Str Ap3 w/ Rending? Yes!
Should Sanguinary Guard have 2 wounds? YES!
Should Sanguinary Guard be T5s? YES! - These effectively become TWC for BA
Should Death Company get Jump Packs for free? Yes!
Should Death Company get that Wulfen ability for 1 last strike the turn they die? Yes!
Should Death Company get access to Blood Talons(as mentioned above)? Yes!
Should Death Company get access to Storm Shields? Yes!
Should Death Company be T5? Yes! - These effectively become TWC for BA - albeit a different flavour

Should BA Assault Squads have access to all close combat weapon selections and stormshields? Yes
Should BA get Stormtalons and Stormhawks? YES!

That about does it. I made their codex competitive again. Bask in the glory. I want to buy this now

No, no, no and no.

This makes 0 sense. You're just cop pasting the space wolves codex onto the blood angels. Why are death company t5, same with the sang guard? Why should their artificer have a 6++? Why would they have a death spinner like weapon? All your doing is strapping upgrades onto stuff and giving them free gak to make them better.

Naaris wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Naaris wrote:
There's a part of me that always wanted to make BA army or SW army. I plan to do it when I can set the time and money aside. BA have cool fluff and are unique enough to have their own book like SW and DA and GK.,

All they need is a better codex inline with Spacewolves. Not saying they need Black Rage / Red Thirst Vampire Magic super units like Wulfen, but maybe????

Should everyone in the army have access to Jump Packs, including unique HQ's? Yes.
Should BA Artificer armor provide a 6++ like SW Runic armor? Yes.
Should BA Lightning Claws be called Blood Talons, like dreads, give +1 Str - like wolf claws? Yes.
Should all BA with Jump packs get a rule that each model gets d3 hammer of wrath? Yes!
Should BA have access to Centurions? NO!
Should BA have access to Grav Cannons? NO!
Should BA be given a new weapon like SW did with Helfrost? YES! - How BA get a marine version of Death Spinners - Range 12", Str 6 AP - , Assault 2 - "Blood Boil" - When rolling To Wound for a weapon that has this special rule, use the target’s Initiative instead of its Toughness (note that the model’s Toughness is still used to determine whether an attack has the Instant Death special rule). In addition, if a 6 is rolled To Wound when attacking with a weapon that has this special rule, the Wound is resolved at AP2.

Should Libby Dreads be better or taken in a conclave? Yes.
Wouldn't it make more sense that Sanguinary priests be treated like Lone Wolves and have no Force Org Slot - allowing them to be taken as one per Troop/Fast/Elite unit taken. Or allow a SPriest to be taken by any infantry or bike or Jump pack unit as a sargent upgrade - FNP for all! YES!
Should the Sanguinor be an MC - Str 6, T6, W5 with FNP and move him to LOW - at his current price? YES!
Should the Techmarine HQ to take a TFC? YES!
Should Mephiston get a 4++ and Eternal warrior at his current price? Yes!

Does the army need a Command Squad, Sternguard Squad and Vanguard Veteran Squad? NO! Should those units be folded into 1 Elite squad that can pick and choose weapons and get some bonuses - Like wolf Guard? YES!
Do they need both types of Terminator Squads listed? No - Just give them Blood Terminators that can pick and choose weapons - Like wolf Guard terminators? Yes!
Should they get Cataphractii Terminators? Yes!
Should they get Super Vampires? Maybe! - or maybe buffs below to DC and Sanguinary Guard are enough coupled with the BA Jump pack buffs and ability to take a SPriest with any squad.
Do their Dreads need a point decrease and more attacks? Yes.
Do Furiosos and DC dreads need more distinctive abilities? Yes.
Should Lemartes be able to be taken as part of a DC upgrade, unit like Lukas the Trickster is for Blood Claws? Yes of course.
Should Sangiunary Guard's death masks give them a 4++ but cost 10ppm? YES!
Should Sanguinary Guard's Axe give +3 Str AP2 and sword give +1Str Ap3 w/ Rending? Yes!
Should Sanguinary Guard have 2 wounds? YES!
Should Sanguinary Guard be T5s? YES! - These effectively become TWC for BA
Should Death Company get Jump Packs for free? Yes!
Should Death Company get that Wulfen ability for 1 last strike the turn they die? Yes!
Should Death Company get access to Blood Talons(as mentioned above)? Yes!
Should Death Company get access to Storm Shields? Yes!
Should Death Company be T5? Yes! - These effectively become TWC for BA - albeit a different flavour

Should BA Assault Squads have access to all close combat weapon selections and stormshields? Yes
Should BA get Stormtalons and Stormhawks? YES!

That about does it. I made their codex competitive again. Bask in the glory. I want to buy this now

No, no, no and no.

This makes 0 sense. You're just cop pasting the space wolves codex onto the blood angels. Why are death company t5, same with the sang guard? Why should their artificer have a 6++? Why would they have a death spinner like weapon? All your doing is strapping upgrades onto stuff and giving them free gak to make them better.

I can't hear you because all of the blood raining down!

BA are 1 of the 4 snowflake marysue unique SM chapeters that have their own codex but they are littered with crap that comes from the vanilla dex. The improvements listed would Blood Bloody Blood Blood the Blood Angels and make them thematic. You know Jetpack loving assault loving marines who's "chapter tactic" is FURIOUS CHARGE. SO Their Elite units should reflect that. S Guard are beefed up golden angels which could stand to be much tougher than they are. DC are crazy guys that are doomed to die so why not get jacked up on Black Rage and red thrist which could be argued that the frenzy causes them to be much tougher than a normal marine. Hence T5.

Why doesn't their armor grant 6+. Writers at GW could easily retconn that all BA Artificer armor has flecks of Sanguinous's blood or armor bits in it that give it 6++

They have a deathspinner like weapon because they don't have grav and it give them a weapon to combat MC's and other tough creatures. Plus it sounds fluffy. And because its only range 12" it fits the BA motif of "The Blood Angels are designed for blitzkrieg. If you're playing Blood Angels, it's because you want a fast-paced and slightly reckless play style. This army, more than most, caters to raw aggression." They have yo get close to the enemy to use it. Then Assault whats left!

Naaris wrote:
You understand how wounding against Initiative works right?

5 BA assault marines with my gun, shoot 10 Str 6 shots at a riptide at BS 4. The gun wounds the riptide against his Initiative which is 2. So its Str6 vs I2. That means that those guys wound that riptide on a 2+ . If they roll 6's those wounds are also at AP2.

Why do you think that warp spider spam cheese is tournament winning grade weapons. They kill MC's and GC's the same. You reduce wraithknights who are usually T8 to taking their armor save all the time and sometimes just their FNP.

Naaris wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Naaris wrote:
There's a part of me that always wanted to make BA army or SW army. I plan to do it when I can set the time and money aside. BA have cool fluff and are unique enough to have their own book like SW and DA and GK.,

All they need is a better codex inline with Spacewolves. Not saying they need Black Rage / Red Thirst Vampire Magic super units like Wulfen, but maybe????

Should everyone in the army have access to Jump Packs, including unique HQ's? Yes.
Should BA Artificer armor provide a 6++ like SW Runic armor? Yes.
Should BA Lightning Claws be called Blood Talons, like dreads, give +1 Str - like wolf claws? Yes.
Should all BA with Jump packs get a rule that each model gets d3 hammer of wrath? Yes!
Should BA have access to Centurions? NO!
Should BA have access to Grav Cannons? NO!
Should BA be given a new weapon like SW did with Helfrost? YES! - How BA get a marine version of Death Spinners - Range 12", Str 6 AP - , Assault 2 - "Blood Boil" - When rolling To Wound for a weapon that has this special rule, use the target’s Initiative instead of its Toughness (note that the model’s Toughness is still used to determine whether an attack has the Instant Death special rule). In addition, if a 6 is rolled To Wound when attacking with a weapon that has this special rule, the Wound is resolved at AP2.

Should Libby Dreads be better or taken in a conclave? Yes.
Wouldn't it make more sense that Sanguinary priests be treated like Lone Wolves and have no Force Org Slot - allowing them to be taken as one per Troop/Fast/Elite unit taken. Or allow a SPriest to be taken by any infantry or bike or Jump pack unit as a sargent upgrade - FNP for all! YES!
Should the Sanguinor be an MC - Str 6, T6, W5 with FNP and move him to LOW - at his current price? YES!
Should the Techmarine HQ to take a TFC? YES!
Should Mephiston get a 4++ and Eternal warrior at his current price? Yes!

Does the army need a Command Squad, Sternguard Squad and Vanguard Veteran Squad? NO! Should those units be folded into 1 Elite squad that can pick and choose weapons and get some bonuses - Like wolf Guard? YES!
Do they need both types of Terminator Squads listed? No - Just give them Blood Terminators that can pick and choose weapons - Like wolf Guard terminators? Yes!
Should they get Cataphractii Terminators? Yes!
Should they get Super Vampires? Maybe! - or maybe buffs below to DC and Sanguinary Guard are enough coupled with the BA Jump pack buffs and ability to take a SPriest with any squad.
Do their Dreads need a point decrease and more attacks? Yes.
Do Furiosos and DC dreads need more distinctive abilities? Yes.
Should Lemartes be able to be taken as part of a DC upgrade, unit like Lukas the Trickster is for Blood Claws? Yes of course.
Should Sangiunary Guard's death masks give them a 4++ but cost 10ppm? YES!
Should Sanguinary Guard's Axe give +3 Str AP2 and sword give +1Str Ap3 w/ Rending? Yes!
Should Sanguinary Guard have 2 wounds? YES!
Should Sanguinary Guard be T5s? YES! - These effectively become TWC for BA
Should Death Company get Jump Packs for free? Yes!
Should Death Company get that Wulfen ability for 1 last strike the turn they die? Yes!
Should Death Company get access to Blood Talons(as mentioned above)? Yes!
Should Death Company get access to Storm Shields? Yes!
Should Death Company be T5? Yes! - These effectively become TWC for BA - albeit a different flavour

Should BA Assault Squads have access to all close combat weapon selections and stormshields? Yes
Should BA get Stormtalons and Stormhawks? YES!

That about does it. I made their codex competitive again. Bask in the glory. I want to buy this now

No, no, no and no.

This makes 0 sense. You're just cop pasting the space wolves codex onto the blood angels. Why are death company t5, same with the sang guard? Why should their artificer have a 6++? Why would they have a death spinner like weapon? All your doing is strapping upgrades onto stuff and giving them free gak to make them better.

I can't hear you because all of the blood raining down!

BA are 1 of the 4 snowflake marysue unique SM chapeters that have their own codex but they are littered with crap that comes from the vanilla dex. The improvements listed would Blood Bloody Blood Blood the Blood Angels and make them thematic. You know Jetpack loving assault loving marines who's "chapter tactic" is FURIOUS CHARGE. SO Their Elite units should reflect that. S Guard are beefed up golden angels which could stand to be much tougher than they are. DC are crazy guys that are doomed to die so why not get jacked up on Black Rage and red thrist which could be argued that the frenzy causes them to be much tougher than a normal marine. Hence T5.

Why doesn't their armor grant 6+. Writers at GW could easily retconn that all BA Artificer armor has flecks of Sanguinous's blood or armor bits in it that give it 6++

They have a deathspinner like weapon because they don't have grav and it give them a weapon to combat MC's and other tough creatures. Plus it sounds fluffy. And because its only range 12" it fits the BA motif of "The Blood Angels are designed for blitzkrieg. If you're playing Blood Angels, it's because you want a fast-paced and slightly reckless play style. This army, more than most, caters to raw aggression." They have yo get close to the enemy to use it. Then Assault whats left!

Martel732 wrote:
I'd have to think long and hard for a BA rewrite. The first question is how codex compliant are they?

Martel732 wrote:
They still use tac squads, not grey hunters or crusader squad type units. BA are a weird bird, really.

 Mr Morden wrote:

So we got a few Wolves
oh and then Cyberwolves
and then Space Wolves riding Giant Wolves
and then A Space Wolf with Wolf Claws and Wolf Necklace.
A Space Wolf on a Wolf Sleigh being pulled by Wolves

 Griddlelol wrote:
Father Christmas Grimnar is the dumbest thing in any codex.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Really the most genius thing they could ever do is:

-Release space marine dex with all the basic units, formations, and chapter tactics for all the chapters, including the ones that used to be separate books. No named characters, no chapter specific traits, powers, relics or anything.

-Have a small softback supplement for each chapter with the named characters, special units, traits, powers, relics, and their own voltron-formation, as well as data sheets for formations that are unique to their chapter. (Like any involving death company for BA, for example.)

-printin' dat money.

 insaniak wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Really the most genius thing they could ever do is:

-Release space marine dex with all the basic units, formations, and chapter tactics for all the chapters, including the ones that used to be separate books. No named characters, no chapter specific traits, powers, relics or anything.

-Have a small softback supplement for each chapter with the named characters, special units, traits, powers, relics, and their own voltron-formation, as well as data sheets for formations that are unique to their chapter. (Like any involving death company for BA, for example.)

-printin' dat money.

They did this in 3rd edition. It was fairly universally reviled.

People hated having to buy multiple books to play a single army.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Seriously people? It's not that hard to re-organise Loyalists without the sheer lunacy of a ginormous & unfeasibly gakfest mega codex of dooooooom!

1. Codex Space Marines
- as it is now, with background & Chapter Traits for the 'codex adherent' First Legions and their successor Chapters.
Throw the new Librarius lore in here as the generic 'Space Marine' lore, and then shove the other 3 lores into the BRB, since there's exactly 0 fluff or actual reasons that non-Muhreeens can't use them, other than obnoxious favoritism...

2. Codex Champions of the Imperium
- as the new Angels of Death supplement is now, with additional rules, Warlord Traits, Relics, and specialist Decurion style detachments for the Imperial/Crimson Fists, Iron Hands, White Scars, Salamanders, Raven Guard & Black Templars.
(Smurfs can go feth themselves, they get enough as it is in the basic codex, including far too many special snowflake characters!)

3. Codex Angels of Death
- a new supplement codex for both the Blood Angels & Dark Angels, including their background, unique units & characters, Sanguinary & Interromancy psychic lores, Warlord Traits, Relics and formations + Decurion style detachments.

4. Codex Space Wolves

5. Codex Grey Knights

Now BA's & DA's draw the bulk of their stuff from the main Marine book, and their supplement codex can simply add/remove unit options where it fits... Wolves & Knights are too distinct in their organisations to even think of throwing under the basic codex, and we do all this while removing only a single book. (as both Angels 'dexes get mashed together)

Then for Chaos, we can have;
1. Codex Chaos Space Marines
- add in Legion/Renegade Traits for the Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Red Corsairs & Crimson Slaughter. A fully expanded psychic lore for each of the Gods, a larger Relic table, and formations + Decurion style detachment.
Basically, make the basic Chaos 'dex into a mirror of the basic Loyalist 'dex, but with it's own unique flavourings & wargear. (ie: marks, gifts/mutations, daemon engines, etc...)

2. Codex Champions of Chaos
- a supplement with rules for the World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard & Emperor's Children, including unique Warlord Traits, wargear/Relics, new god-specific units, and formations + unique Decurion style detachments for each.
Basically, it's to Chaos what both the Champions of the Imperium/Angels of Death are to the Loyalist side.

3. Codex Khorne Daemonkin

4. Codex Daemons

5. Codex Lost and the Damned
- a return of a mixed list for the mortal hordes of Chaos! Apostate Cardinals/Arch Heretics, Rogue Psykers, Traitor Generals & their regiments, Mutant hordes, Plague Zombies, Cultists and all manner of various whacky Chaotic war engines.
Hell, you could even throw a handful of Dark Mech in as well, since a goodly number of the various unit entries can easily be generic templates. (ie: a 'Renegade Veterans' unit could have options for carapace armour & Hellrifles, which could be a chaotic meshing of hot-shot/basic skittarii type gun, and therefore become a 'Dark Mech Retinue'!)

Naaris wrote:
There's a part of me that always wanted to make BA army or SW army. I plan to do it when I can set the time and money aside. BA have cool fluff and are unique enough to have their own book like SW and DA and GK.,

All they need is a better codex inline with Spacewolves. Not saying they need Black Rage / Red Thirst Vampire Magic super units like Wulfen, but maybe????

Should everyone in the army have access to Jump Packs, including unique HQ's? Yes.
Should BA Artificer armor provide a 6++ like SW Runic armor? Yes.
Should BA Lightning Claws be called Blood Talons, like dreads, give +1 Str - like wolf claws? Yes.
Should all BA with Jump packs get a rule that each model gets d3 hammer of wrath? Yes!
Should BA have access to Centurions? NO!
Should BA have access to Grav Cannons? NO!
Should BA be given a new weapon like SW did with Helfrost? YES! - How BA get a marine version of Death Spinners - Range 12", Str 6 AP - , Assault 2 - "Blood Boil" - When rolling To Wound for a weapon that has this special rule, use the target’s Initiative instead of its Toughness (note that the model’s Toughness is still used to determine whether an attack has the Instant Death special rule). In addition, if a 6 is rolled To Wound when attacking with a weapon that has this special rule, the Wound is resolved at AP2.

Should Libby Dreads be better or taken in a conclave? Yes.
Wouldn't it make more sense that Sanguinary priests be treated like Lone Wolves and have no Force Org Slot - allowing them to be taken as one per Troop/Fast/Elite unit taken. Or allow a SPriest to be taken by any infantry or bike or Jump pack unit as a sargent upgrade - FNP for all! YES!
Should the Sanguinor be an MC - Str 6, T6, W5 with FNP and move him to LOW - at his current price? YES!
Should the Techmarine HQ to take a TFC? YES!
Should Mephiston get a 4++ and Eternal warrior at his current price? Yes!

Does the army need a Command Squad, Sternguard Squad and Vanguard Veteran Squad? NO! Should those units be folded into 1 Elite squad that can pick and choose weapons and get some bonuses - Like wolf Guard? YES!
Do they need both types of Terminator Squads listed? No - Just give them Blood Terminators that can pick and choose weapons - Like wolf Guard terminators? Yes!
Should they get Cataphractii Terminators? Yes!
Should they get Super Vampires? Maybe! - or maybe buffs below to DC and Sanguinary Guard are enough coupled with the BA Jump pack buffs and ability to take a SPriest with any squad.
Do their Dreads need a point decrease and more attacks? Yes.
Do Furiosos and DC dreads need more distinctive abilities? Yes.
Should Lemartes be able to be taken as part of a DC upgrade, unit like Lukas the Trickster is for Blood Claws? Yes of course.
Should Sangiunary Guard's death masks give them a 4++ but cost 10ppm? YES!
Should Sanguinary Guard's Axe give +3 Str AP2 and sword give +1Str Ap3 w/ Rending? Yes!
Should Sanguinary Guard have 2 wounds? YES!
Should Sanguinary Guard be T5s? YES! - These effectively become TWC for BA
Should Death Company get Jump Packs for free? Yes!
Should Death Company get that Wulfen ability for 1 last strike the turn they die? Yes!
Should Death Company get access to Blood Talons(as mentioned above)? Yes!
Should Death Company get access to Storm Shields? Yes!
Should Death Company be T5? Yes! - These effectively become TWC for BA - albeit a different flavour

Should BA Assault Squads have access to all close combat weapon selections and stormshields? Yes
Should BA get Stormtalons and Stormhawks? YES!

That about does it. I made their codex competitive again. Bask in the glory. I want to buy this now

Experiment 626 wrote:
@War Kitten: Smurfs get the single largest codex in the entire game... And ideally, a supplement that gives added unique perks to the other 1st Founding Chapters should also include some drawbacks as well, so it's not entirely just 'Smurfs +1'.

For example, Salamanders should get back their ability to take Hammernators within their regular 'tactical' Terminator squads, but have more restricted access to Bikes, and especially Jump Packs & Land Speeders, as the high gravity of their homeworld makes using & training with such things much more difficult.
Meanwhile, the White Scars' own fluff forbids Dreadnoughts, or else, they are extremely rare. Hence, a special Scars detachment should heavily limit Dreadnoughts, and force all infantry units to take transports, since their whole shtick is supposedly meant to be highly mobile warfare.

Likewise, perhaps Ravenguard get 0 access to Centurions ('cause those are totally super stealthy!) but more Infiltrating, while Templars lose out on Devastators, Whirlwinds & Thunderfire Cannons, but can take Combat Shields + more specialist close combat gear in their Assault/Biker squads, the latter of which can also again mix Scout Bikers within the squad.

If you don't want to abide by these fluffier restrictions, than a player can just choose to run a basic C: SM's army using their favourite Chapter Tactics, but they lose out on the super special snowflake added Traits & relics.

But really, considering how the Ultramarines are supposed to be THE ultra codex-adherent Chapter, it's a bit rich giving them added special snowflakness in a further supplement.
Their snowflakiness is that they rigidly adhere to the holy codex above all else. Just add the 'new' basic formations such as the Skyhammer, etc... to the main codex. (and Sicarius' speartip formation if it's not already in there)

 Frozocrone wrote:
You can blame Ward for that. I can't imagine the other 8 Legions 'being flawed because they weren't the pinnacle of the Imperium, the ultramarines' would have gone well with collectors.

It's been toned down a bit, but never forgotten.