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It's uncharted territory so the market was always going to suffer, same with the value of the pound.

As for me, I still don't like it but we won't see whether it was the right or wrong decision until 2-3 years after negotiations are complete and 10 years when we can get an idea of how the economy and migration rates were affected.

Not being British, I don't really care a great deal either way.

I think the biggest set backs aren't that the vote was to leave, but rather....

1) The amount of fearmongering involved meaning even before negotiations have started people have all got their knickers in a twist. We really have little idea what's going to happen in the coming years.

2) That it was so divisive for the community. If the vote was 70/30 or even 60/40 in either direction it would have been better than 52/48 in either direction.

If I were living in Britain, well, I probably would be better educated on the subject which might swing my vote, but based on my existing knowledge I would have voted leave and I'd still be happy I voted leave but would be disappointed with those 2 points.

The divisiveness is absolutely the worst thing about it.

The UK is a representative democracy, so when the government takes a decision you don't like, you can decide to punish them at the next election by voting for a different party, and maybe there will be a new government.

In this case it is your friends and neighbours who may have made the decision you don't like. You've still got to live with them, even though you think it's irrevocable.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The divisiveness is absolutely the worst thing about it.

The UK is a representative democracy, so when the government takes a decision you don't like, you can decide to punish them at the next election by voting for a different party, and maybe there will be a new government.

In this case it is your friends and neighbours who may have made the decision you don't like. You've still got to live with them, even though you think it's irrevocable.

For two years, I've lived with people who voted NO in the Scottish independence referendum, and there was never any trouble in Scotland. For a few days afterwards, there was gnashing of teeth, and a lot of disappointed people, but the country got back to normal.

The UK will get back to normal if people accept the result, and stop saying silly things like people were duped, we need a second referendum etc etc

Opportunistic scumbags like the Lib Dems promising to take us back into the EU, will only make things worst.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The divisiveness is absolutely the worst thing about it.

Sadly, it's already here. It's too late. And the rift is serious after this disastrous campaign from both sides. From what I have seen, the agressivity and the blatant lies (it seems the Brexit side admitted they were lieing on a core argument for their campaign not so long ago) were quite high on this one.

People are left totally confused with the consequences of their actions. Of course, some may have anticipated them (maybe knew them from the start) and these people obviously don't care at all about the others as long as their own rear is safe.

What is really disgusting is that it will be the poor and weak who will pay the full price, again. But hey, I know some people here just don't care about that.

hmm. bodes well eh ?

how does the song go again ?

Be nice if our political leaders actually stepped up though eh ?

Amongst the most depressing facts is that Nick poxy Clegg warned us and -- allbeit perhaps due to statistical inevitability -- looks right :

I think we, as a collective population, could be forgiven for not listening to Clegg, given that he betrayed his beliefs and the people

VoteLeaveDerbyshire has it wrong. I don't think Leave has ever said 'we will stop immigration', I think it's more 'we will limit immigration to manageable levels'. Sadly the media and/or people have misinterpreted that to mean 'no more ruddy immigrants'.

Or maybe they just didn't get enough retweets on their first tweet

Not to be a rules lawyer, but leave's exact words were:

"Control Immigration"

You could actually double the immigration rate without lying under that statement.

 Selym wrote:
Not to be a rules lawyer, but leave's exact words were:

"Control Immigration"

You could actually double the immigration rate without lying under that statement.

Most certainly they could. There was discussion of adopting Australia's points system. Remain's counter argument is that Australia actually accepts more migrants than the UK (but obviously Australia has more control over who they allow entry to).

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Not to be a rules lawyer, but leave's exact words were:

"Control Immigration"

You could actually double the immigration rate without lying under that statement.

Most certainly they could. There was discussion of adopting Australia's points system. Remain's counter argument is that Australia actually accepts more migrants than the UK (but obviously Australia has more control over who they allow entry to).

Yea, but Australia only accepts more migrants than the UK as it is a far more desirable place to live, with far more opportunities and more accepting society. Clearly the best way to reduce immigration is to make our country a hell hole that no one would want to live in!

I'm sure the voters who voted leave to stop immigration will appreciate the subtle differences and semantic get out clauses Vote Leave left for themselves.

As a leaver I haven't changed my opinion on my voting preference. I am concerned by other things post the vote.

The media has had a large part in the negativity running upto and after the vote.
On both sides of the coin bias and sensationalist reporting has seen the news turn into something more suitable for a prime time entertainment slot.

Politicians are as guilty, their policies appear to be derived from their own soundbites rather than the opposite. I think they think they are in a reality TV show and act accordingly.

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm sure the voters who voted leave to stop immigration will appreciate the subtle differences and semantic get out clauses Vote Leave left for themselves.

I'm not entirely sure it's that subtle... I mean in the actual speech the outline of the plan was given.

"We have a glorious opportunity, to pass our laws and set our taxes entirely according to the needs of the UK, we can control our borders in a way that is not discriminatory but fair and balanced and take the wind out of the sails of the extremists and those who would play politics with immigration[. Above all, we can find our voice in the world again, a voice commensurate with the fifth biggest economy on earth. Powerful, liberal, humane, an extraordinary force for good in the world. "

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm sure the voters who voted leave to stop immigration will appreciate the subtle differences and semantic get out clauses Vote Leave left for themselves.

All the people I work with voted out. The reason being they wanted the Muslim immigrants out, I got the p*ss taken out of me, when I tried to explain that coming out of Europe,
Would have no effect on commonwealth immigration. Most people don't see the difference between EU migrants, and commonwealth migrants.
People don't like sharia law in england, and all the anti muslim fear mongering, has finally come home to roost. Well done ukip.

 Compel wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm sure the voters who voted leave to stop immigration will appreciate the subtle differences and semantic get out clauses Vote Leave left for themselves.

I'm not entirely sure it's that subtle... I mean in the actual speech the outline of the plan was given.

"We have a glorious opportunity, to pass our laws and set our taxes entirely according to the needs of the UK, we can control our borders in a way that is not discriminatory but fair and balanced and take the wind out of the sails of the extremists and those who would play politics with immigration[. Above all, we can find our voice in the world again, a voice commensurate with the fifth biggest economy on earth. Powerful, liberal, humane, an extraordinary force for good in the world. "

I'm not sure that people were paying quite so much attention to that, as the lies plastered on buses and "Take Back Control!"

Well, if the rhetoric on immigration is anything like it is here in America, then it's full of dog whistles.

I'm not really up to snuff on how one leaves the EU. A lot of the talk seems to presume that it's a sudden break with no time to prepare, or to ease out over a number of years to lessen the strain of all the things that have to be done. Is there no way to make a gradual exit that can be managed?

 LordofHats wrote:
I'm not really up to snuff on how one leaves the EU. A lot of the talk seems to presume that it's a sudden break with no time to prepare, or to ease out over a number of years to lessen the strain of all the things that have to be done. Is there no way to make a gradual exit that can be managed?

Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, when enacted, will give the EU and the UK 2 years to sort everything. If both parties agree to, discussions can go beyond the 2 years.

It's a clean break when they separate, but discussions will have gone on before 'divorce day' to ensure a smooth transition and maintain relations.

 LordofHats wrote:
I'm not really up to snuff on how one leaves the EU. A lot of the talk seems to presume that it's a sudden break with no time to prepare, or to ease out over a number of years to lessen the strain of all the things that have to be done. Is there no way to make a gradual exit that can be managed?

Ideally, the UK will be able to negotiate a gradual exit with the EU. But the problem is that for succesful negotiations, both parties have to agree to everything. And trying to agree something and negotiate with the EU is an absolute nightmare because the EU can never agree on anything with itself in the first place. So far it seems like the EU Commission and a large number of member states want to kick out the UK immediately, while Germany (as always) is urging for everyone to take things easy and would be more favourable to enter into negotiations with the UK for a gradual exit.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I think we, as a collective population, could be forgiven for not listening to Clegg, given that he betrayed his beliefs and the people

To be fair on the LD and NC they did ensure that the Conservatives did not go completely nuts and it held back some of the more extreme Tory measures. What they really are guilty of is naivety - they wrongly believed that the populace would understand that behind the scenes they ensured some legislation never got off the drawing board. Unfortunately the public never saw this and that the legislation that did go through was blamed on them. Nick Cleggs naivety was to sell LDs soul by not leaving 3 years into the coalition when it was becoming apparent that they were not able to achieve anything. At the beginning though if we had no coalition it would have been a chaotic government with no clear winner with all legislation blocked resulting another quick election (which may not have changed anything).


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 loki old fart wrote:

All the people I work with voted out. The reason being they wanted the Muslim immigrants out, I got the p*ss taken out of me, when I tried to explain that coming out of Europe,
Would have no effect on commonwealth immigration. Most people don't see the difference between EU migrants, and commonwealth migrants.
People don't like sharia law in england, and all the anti muslim fear mongering, has finally come home to roost. Well done ukip.

It's a perfect example of why Parliament should make these decisions not the public, referendums can be used to get the mood of the populace but nothing more. There is X? number of people here that have a made a questionable, and really racist, decision on misleading information versus one persons more understanding world view. This is one example, it raises the question of just how many votes were based on such views and that the consequence could last for decades is staggering.

I have had a complete change of heart. I was basically devastated in the 24th but as time has gone on and the likelihood of Scottish independence has increased I have gotten more and more excited by the prospect to the extent that I don't really care about the Brexitieers now nor even the incoming financial implosion. I do feel sorry for the people who are going to have to live in the aftermath of this gigantic mess though.

I have wanted an independent Scotland since I was a wee boy, it is finally in our grasp and I just can't wait.

My wife is still pretty pissed off though, especially about the 'immigration' elements of the leave campaign.

Re the OP - Other. My opinion of the referendum is someone really, really should have acted on the now much discussed petition before the referendum. BBC says it has been there since 24th May, the Leaver who started it anticipating all this, but from the other side. I presume the Tory tacticians who considered all this (if they ever did) thought any sort of 60% requirement would give Leave a(nother) 'not fair' banner to wave around.

Regards Scotland, I don't how a 2nd vote for Scotland can be refused. The alternative is, 'we told you to stay (at least in part) because if you didn't you would have to leave the EU, and now you have to leave the EU'. A statement which basically needs a 'mwahahaha' at the end of it.

When you do go, please can we in South Lakeland come with? I know you're already pretty well set for mountains, sheep and rain but we're just down the road, we voted Remain and Tim Farron is a very nice man. We could be an embassy or something. Thanks.

Indyref1 was voted on knowing full well that the UK as a whole had an upcoming EURef. Votes to stay were made with an understanding that it risked separation from the EU.

I really don't think that's going to stick, but we'll see.

 Selym wrote:
Indyref1 was voted on knowing full well that the UK as a whole had an upcoming EURef. Votes to stay were made with an understanding that it risked separation from the EU.

Yeah, good luck with that one.

I'm rooting for an independent Scotland.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I have had a complete change of heart. I was basically devastated in the 24th but as time has gone on and the likelihood of Scottish independence has increased I have gotten more and more excited by the prospect to the extent that I don't really care about the Brexitieers now nor even the incoming financial implosion. I do feel sorry for the people who are going to have to live in the aftermath of this gigantic mess though.

I have wanted an independent Scotland since I was a wee boy, it is finally in our grasp and I just can't wait.

My wife is still pretty pissed off though, especially about the 'immigration' elements of the leave campaign.

Yah think?

If Sturgeon had just kept her mouth shut and did everything she is now, quietly, I could see the chance.

Having told the English that she is going to block them leaving the EU, there is no chance in hell of England letting us gain independence. The exact same 'rules' being used by Sturgeon will and can be used against us to stop Scotland gaining independence.

Cheers

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:

Having told the English that she is going to block them leaving the EU

That's not what she said and the SP can't block it anyway, not really. Saying that she may will both convert some more pro EU ex Unionists into Yes voters while at the same time rattling Westminster. Its slightly dirty politics but given the torrent of bs flying around its saintly by comparison.

But it is how its being reported, Regardless, but the threat is there, and she has voiced it, and sorry I have to disagree with your opinion that she has rattled Westminster. They're already shaking to pieces after the vote.

Lets be honest here, Scotland has a less than sterling reputation down south, being blamed for the length of time Labour was in power and having a disproportionate say in English affairs. Now we have yet another Scot saying that she is going to veto the referendum, that is not going to go down well. Independence for Scotland can only come with the agreement and cooperation of Westminster, and threatening them and defying the English populace is not going to make the process any easier

Cheers

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:

Lets be honest here, Scotland has a less than sterling reputation down south, being blamed for the length of time Labour was in power and having a disproportionate say in English affairs. Now we have yet another Scot saying that she is going to veto the referendum, that is not going to go down well. Independence for Scotland can only come with the agreement and cooperation of Westminster, and threatening them and defying the English populace is not going to make the process any easier

The reporting is nothing to do with her though and pissed off English brexiteers are surely quite likely to want to get rid of Scotland so that they could create their isolationist utopia?

Westminster is indeed shaking to pieces but if it starts blindly lashing out at the SP just watch the Yes% rise.....

You're missing the point, it doesn't matter how many yes's there are, if Westminster doesn't agree to it, then nothing happens.