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 Don Savik wrote:
So this pretty much debunks all the nonsense eldar rumors of black library nonsense? (harlequin Yriel was the dumbest thing I've heard ever) I mean I doubt they're also going to make the new chaos campaign against eldar if this release is including eldar.


And this was all from the rumor mongers that people said were legit.

I don't think anybody believed that list to be anything more than wishlisting, no matter how good it all looked.

And as was repeatedly pointed out, Yriel joins the Hrlequins at the end of Valedor, so it wouldn't have been such a big thing if it was replicated on the table top.

 Don Savik wrote:
So this pretty much debunks all the nonsense eldar rumors of black library nonsense? (harlequin Yriel was the dumbest thing I've heard ever) I mean I doubt they're also going to make the new chaos campaign against eldar if this release is including eldar.


And this was all from the rumor mongers that people said were legit.

As salty as that big list tasted I don't see anything so far that contradicts it. Having a model(Eldrad) in the Death masque box doesn't mean that GW wont release another set further down the line with it in as well, especially if one of them is not a permanent stock item.

 Imateria wrote:

 Don Savik wrote:
So this pretty much debunks all the nonsense eldar rumors of black library nonsense? (harlequin Yriel was the dumbest thing I've heard ever) I mean I doubt they're also going to make the new chaos campaign against eldar if this release is including eldar.


And this was all from the rumor mongers that people said were legit.

I don't think anybody believed that list to be anything more than wishlisting, no matter how good it all looked.

And as was repeatedly pointed out, Yriel joins the Hrlequins at the end of Valedor, so it wouldn't have been such a big thing if it was replicated on the table top.

I never got the impression he actually joined them.

"Long dead souls gather behind
The Rebirth of Ancient Days"

Hmm, plastic Aspects confirmed? Plastic is made from oil which is dead animals, and "Rebirth of Ancient Days" is the meaning of Biel-Tan...

Note: This may not be 100% serious..!

Jokes aside, its either going to be a major Craftworld per prophecy or there's something else in the background that's not just Eldrad running away with the circus. Or I'm reading far too much into this! (I know which I'm putting the mortgage on!)

Davor wrote:
Problem is, what is "good times". For me the WD good times were early 2000's while some said their good times were 2010s which I thought were just horrible after mid 2005+

So for me, I can date the "good times" very precisely to 1981. The "Dungeon Architect" series by Roger Musson is still probably some of the best GMing / RPG worldbuilding advice I have ever seen, and still influential on my own game design and GMing processes.

OK so you have some dull pontificating from Lew Pulsipher around the same era, but Musson's stuff is still solid gold.

/old-timer

Pilum wrote:
"Long dead souls gather behind
The Rebirth of Ancient Days"

Hmm, plastic Aspects confirmed? Plastic is made from oil which is dead animals, and "Rebirth of Ancient Days" is the meaning of Biel-Tan...

Note: This may not be 100% serious..!

Jokes aside, its either going to be a major Craftworld per prophecy or there's something else in the background that's not just Eldrad running away with the circus. Or I'm reading far too much into this! (I know which I'm putting the mortgage on!)

Long dead souls- maybe Phoenix Lords gathering with Biel-Tan?
Sounds interesting! I'd have thought plastic aspects would be saved for the next big edition of eldar in 8th maybe? [I don't want to get my hopes up and neither does my wallet!]

The long dead souls are the Eldar in infinity circuits. They are causing Ynnead to coalesce into existence.

Then he will protect their souls from being devoured by Slaanesh, so they can go back to reincarnating again.

Vorian wrote:
The long dead souls are the Eldar in infinity circuits. They are causing Ynnead to coalesce into existence.

Then he will protect their souls from being devoured by Slaanesh, so they can go back to reincarnating again.

This seems like the most likely option, if current lore is being paid attention to.

Glad they're finally moving the storyline forward, although hopefully it is done well and a new square-based sci-fi game doesn't replace 40k. :p

 zedmeister wrote:

zamerion wrote:
From Faeit:

The Void Shield Generator... yes, it is back in september - and its plastic! Same model as the limited one.

Good one, Feait, I'll believe it when I see it

I know it is Faeit, but I hope this is true. If it is, I'll be getting 3. And it does make sense, as it is one of the few units without an available model for sale, and a popular one to boot.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
So what would the Adeptus Mechanicus get - the Void Dragon?

No, they will get the obvious avatar of the machine god- a titan.

zamerion wrote:
From Faeit:

Hi! FYI on the new White Dwarf: It will be like good old times. But lets focus on releases:
Free Gift Miniature is a Slaughterpriest with Hackblade(existing)

Kharn the Betrayer is a new release but not the free gift, coming alongside a new supplement that contains new rules for CSM, including Renegade Knights etc. It is called "Traitor's Hate" and has a Black Crusade label on it.

Deathwatch is going to be huge. There will be repacked boxes of existing Space Marines with additional Deathwatch sprues. What I remember is:
- Dreadnoughts
- Bikes
- Vanguard
- Razorback
- Land Raider
- Space Marine Characters
- New Character
- Flyer
- Deathwatch Squad

Aaaaaand:

The Void Shield Generator... yes, it is back in september - and its plastic! Same model as the limited one.

Thats what I remember. And trust me. The new WD is just awesome... good old times are back!!! 14 pages of battle report for example!

Wow....Faeit you just never give up do you? You are almost as bad as the hack/clickbaitduche know as larry velah aka BloS.... I mean I can make up crap to and post it on the interwebz. Or I can wait until proven people post stuff and then post it a day or two later and " Make it a little better"....

PS that post had nothing to do with you Zam, was not directed at you in any way.

Ian Sturrock wrote:

Davor wrote:
Problem is, what is "good times". For me the WD good times were early 2000's while some said their good times were 2010s which I thought were just horrible after mid 2005+

So for me, I can date the "good times" very precisely to 1981. The "Dungeon Architect" series by Roger Musson is still probably some of the best GMing / RPG worldbuilding advice I have ever seen, and still influential on my own game design and GMing processes.

OK so you have some dull pontificating from Lew Pulsipher around the same era, but Musson's stuff is still solid gold.

/old-timer

lol you got me beat. I only started in Rogue Trader but stopped because nobody played and couldn't buy product. Got back in the 2000s.

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

zamerion wrote:
From Faeit:

Hi! FYI on the new White Dwarf: It will be like good old times. But lets focus on releases:
Free Gift Miniature is a Slaughterpriest with Hackblade(existing)

Kharn the Betrayer is a new release but not the free gift, coming alongside a new supplement that contains new rules for CSM, including Renegade Knights etc. It is called "Traitor's Hate" and has a Black Crusade label on it.

Deathwatch is going to be huge. There will be repacked boxes of existing Space Marines with additional Deathwatch sprues. What I remember is:
- Dreadnoughts
- Bikes
- Vanguard
- Razorback
- Land Raider
- Space Marine Characters
- New Character
- Flyer
- Deathwatch Squad

Aaaaaand:

The Void Shield Generator... yes, it is back in september - and its plastic! Same model as the limited one.

Thats what I remember. And trust me. The new WD is just awesome... good old times are back!!! 14 pages of battle report for example!

Wow....Faeit you just never give up do you? You are almost as bad as the hack/clickbaitduche know as larry velah aka BloS.... I mean I can make up crap to and post it on the interwebz. Or I can wait until proven people post stuff and then post it a day or two later and " Make it a little better"....

PS that post had nothing to do with you Zam, was not directed at you in any way.

Splash releases of existing kits bundled with new upgrade sprues actually sounds plausible. They did it for Black Templars back in the day, and far more recently, Space Wolves saw Long Fangs, Sky Claws, and other box sets.

VSG in plastic I hope is true, as it is one of the few units without a model for sale, and a popular one at that. If this is true, they have me for 2-3 of them.

Agreed that Faeit is a worthless site. But even they get it right sometimes They are about 400 true to 900 false, but that is still about a 30% chance of being accurate

 Warpig1815 wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
So what would the Adeptus Mechanicus get - the Void Dragon?

They get lumped in with all the imperial factions kinda like all eldar do with ynnead avatar.
The best a new imperial guard can hope for is a new "Solar" Creed character which still isn't the same power level as primarchs, avatars, silent King, ghaz character. Tyranids have thier rumoured hive mind bug.

Oh I was just musing. Having the Void Dragon wake up would be rather an interesting concept...

This is a genuine enquiry, not snark, because it baffles me and perhaps you can explain: why do people find fluff advances that fundamentally change the nature of their subject appealing? I don't mean edge-tinkering "advancement" of a storyline or soft-retcons to introduce new elements to support model releases, I mean theme-and-tone-shattering shifts that must inevitably alter most if not all of the things that characterise the subject of the changes.

There's no way GW confirming 100% no-ambiguity that the Dragon is on Mars, did actually cause the AdMech, and has now awoken could do anything other than fundamentally change the faction, perhaps even destroy it utterly in favour of multiple new and very different factions - so where on earth is the appeal of that for someone who actually likes the Adeptus Mechanicus for what they are?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
I don't know if they'll continue the shoulderpad motif to Dreads or not. More likely is to replace the front armor plate with Deathwatch specific plating instead and have some icon for the shoulder(s).

I meant something like this:

Spoiler:

Yes, I understood what you were after, I just wonder if they'll actually do it or if they'll just replace the front plate? Given they're including the Ven Dread, it seems like the front plate is the easiest way to go. Then again, who knows? Maybe GW will go the extra mile.

My assessment of Faeit's "predictions" added inline, below.

- Dreadnoughts (Front plate of sarcophagus, plus icons on upgrade sprue)
- Bikes (Front fairing on upgrade sprue)
- Vanguard (Bits, plus DW weapons/shoulderpads on upgrade sprue)
- Razorback (Doors plus icons on upgrade sprue)
- Land Raider (Doors/ramp plus icons on upgrade sprue)
- Space Marine Characters (none specifically except for the one below)
- New Character (Artimus, the big metal 50mm guy from Inquisitor redone as plastic clamshell)
- Flyer (Doors/ramp plus icons on upgrade sprue)
- Deathwatch Squad (new plastic multi-part kit)

I anticipate the bikes upgrade to just be the Special Ammunition variation of the bike bolters like what the White Scar from Deathwatch Overkill had.

The DW flyer is supposed to be something completely new, not a Stormraven. The talk was that it looked similar to a Tau flyer.

Not seeing all the Deathwatch info in one spot yet....

The Codex Layout and Rules:
This is a very different layout and organization than the traditional Codex: Space Marines.
The codex will contain a very small number of units and many characters.
Every Character from Deathwatch Overkill is included.
There will be a HQ choice.
There will be 1-2 Troops unit choices.
3-5 Formations.
Drop Pods are in the codex.
The big theme of the codex is customization. While the number of units is very small, there are lavish and exhaustive upgrade options for each and every model in the army. Things such as wargear, weapons, and even originating chapters all can be picked and have in-game effects.


There’s a pretty cool, very sleek dropship/flyer dual kit with an enormous Inquisition =I= as fuselage.

28mm Capt. Artemis is also a go, probably a single character clam pack.

Deathwatch Kill Team Kit
Kit is built atop the Plastic Sternguard kit

SM-box-sternguard
Includes an additional Deathwatch sprue loaded with Killteam bits including:

– Over a dozen shoulder pads (Half Deathwatch logos, half various chapter logos)

– New Deathwatch heads

– Multiple Deathwatch equipment back/powerpacks

– Unique Killteam weapons (both shooting and assault)

– Deathwatch pouches, seals, etc, minor bits.

 russian69hitman wrote:
There’s a pretty cool, very sleek dropship/flyer dual kit with an enormous Inquisition =I= as fuselage.

I don't see how you get "very sleek" from the shape of the =I= symbol. I'm not a fan of the Cestus or the SW version and that's what's coming to mind, but I'll keep the optimism going for this.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The talk was that it looked similar to a Tau flyer.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 Breotan wrote:

 russian69hitman wrote:
There’s a pretty cool, very sleek dropship/flyer dual kit with an enormous Inquisition =I= as fuselage.

I don't see how you get "very sleek" from the shape of the =I= symbol. I'm not a fan of the Cestus or the SW version and that's what's coming to mind, but I'll keep the optimism going for this.

SM fliers are meant to fly like a brick threw a window.

The talk said it was like a cross between an Imperium aircraft and Tau, but not as sleek as Tau. What does that mean? Is it actually a hybrid craft? Which would be sick as hell. Or does it mean from an artistic and aesthetics point? It then said it had the Inquisitorial I on it.

I think it's the latter in this case. Either way I'm looking forward to it.

 Gamgee wrote:
The talk said it was like a cross between an Imperium aircraft and Tau, but not as sleek as Tau. What does that mean? Is it actually a hybrid craft? Which would be sick as hell. Or does it mean from an artistic and aesthetics point? It then said it had the Inquisitorial I on it.

I think it's the latter in this case. Either way I'm looking forward to it.

I could see it being more sleek and less boxy. Perhaps not B-2 Spirit level, but maybe like an F-117 Nighthawk.

 russian69hitman wrote:

Spoiler:

Not seeing all the Deathwatch info in one spot yet....

The Codex Layout and Rules:
This is a very different layout and organization than the traditional Codex: Space Marines.
The codex will contain a very small number of units and many characters.
Every Character from Deathwatch Overkill is included.
There will be a HQ choice.
There will be 1-2 Troops unit choices.
3-5 Formations.
Drop Pods are in the codex.
The big theme of the codex is customization. While the number of units is very small, there are lavish and exhaustive upgrade options for each and every model in the army. Things such as wargear, weapons, and even originating chapters all can be picked and have in-game effects.


There’s a pretty cool, very sleek dropship/flyer dual kit with an enormous Inquisition =I= as fuselage.

28mm Capt. Artemis is also a go, probably a single character clam pack.

Deathwatch Kill Team Kit
Kit is built atop the Plastic Sternguard kit

SM-box-sternguard
Includes an additional Deathwatch sprue loaded with Killteam bits including:

– Over a dozen shoulder pads (Half Deathwatch logos, half various chapter logos)

– New Deathwatch heads

– Multiple Deathwatch equipment back/powerpacks

– Unique Killteam weapons (both shooting and assault)

– Deathwatch pouches, seals, etc, minor bits.

Where does that list come from? Because the "Sternguard with additional Deathwatch sprue" thing was debunked by Sad Panda.

Wouldn't you be able to look at the Deathwatch game and figure out what will be released? How many different pieces are there?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Wouldn't you be able to look at the Deathwatch game and figure out what will be released? How many different pieces are there?

No. That was entirely composed of special characters.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Agreed that Faeit is a worthless site. But even they get it right sometimes They are about 400 true to 900 false, but that is still about a 30% chance of being accurate

And how many of those they simply grabbed from elsewhere ergo you could have gotten them faster from the real source rather than try to figure out what from faeith is crap and what was taken from elsewhere? How much accurate stuff Faeith has up first?

Accurate stuff from that list as well were posted elsewhere before faeith...

There's no reason to follow that site. Lots of trash, when they put in accurate stuff you have already seen them elsewhere.

tneva82 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Agreed that Faeit is a worthless site. But even they get it right sometimes They are about 400 true to 900 false, but that is still about a 30% chance of being accurate

And how many of those they simply grabbed from elsewhere ergo you could have gotten them faster from the real source rather than try to figure out what from faeith is crap and what was taken from elsewhere? How much accurate stuff Faeith has up first?

Accurate stuff from that list as well were posted elsewhere before faeith...

There's no reason to follow that site. Lots of trash, when they put in accurate stuff you have already seen them elsewhere.

Fully agreed.

tneva82 wrote:
And how many of those they simply grabbed from elsewhere ergo you could have gotten them faster from the real source rather than try to figure out what from faeith is crap and what was taken from elsewhere? How much accurate stuff Faeith has up first?

Accurate stuff from that list as well were posted elsewhere before faeith...

There's no reason to follow that site. Lots of trash, when they put in accurate stuff you have already seen them elsewhere.

Sounds like you suffer from a lack faeith...



Edit: A simple one liner is defeated by constant quotation fails

 Yodhrin wrote:


This is a genuine enquiry, not snark, because it baffles me and perhaps you can explain: why do people find fluff advances that fundamentally change the nature of their subject appealing? I don't mean edge-tinkering "advancement" of a storyline or soft-retcons to introduce new elements to support model releases, I mean theme-and-tone-shattering shifts that must inevitably alter most if not all of the things that characterise the subject of the changes.

This is a terrific question. It's a topic that I discussed with one of the Black Liberary writers a couple months ago.

The answer: Currently 40k feels like professional wrestling.

I've been playing since 1988 and at this point I'm not excited about any big conflicts at this point.

Orks hit Armaggeddon and are making a mess of things. So what? There's no reprocussions for the lost output of the Forgeworld.
Tyranids hit the Shield Worlds, made a mess of things and weren't stopped. So what? There's no reprocussions to the Blood Angels for losing so many warriors in that fight.
13th Black Crusade where Chaos gets on Cadia. So what?

None of it changes the way the game is played or fundamentally alters the structure of the universe. The Imperium is still bloated and endlessly big, Eldar are still "waining" or whatever that means, Chaos is still plotting to get back in. There's huge fights with heroics and trechery, and secrets are revealed or knowledge lost! But nothing really changes in the big picture- it means nothing. Oh sure there's some fluff text here and there about how "desperate" things are or "teatering on the edge" but all those vauge words haven't altered a thing for a very long time. My army composition isn't changed, etc... etc...

Just like the Imperium fluff, the setting has become static and imobile while only sounding vaguely new. If these events aren't going to actually effect things, then all the excitement is drained out of it. Thus the wrestling example. There's lots of promises of events that could happen, or might happen, but for over twenty years, they haven't happened; you an only tease people so much with a posibility before they stop paying attention to it.

If this is a change, a REAL change, then I'm very excited for it.

 Vain wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And how many of those they simply grabbed from elsewhere ergo you could have gotten them faster from the real source rather than try to figure out what from faeith is crap and what was taken from elsewhere? How much accurate stuff Faeith has up first?

Accurate stuff from that list as well were posted elsewhere before faeith...

There's no reason to follow that site. Lots of trash, when they put in accurate stuff you have already seen them elsewhere.

Sounds like you suffer from a lack faeith...



Edit: A simple one liner is defeated by constant quotation fails

The less one hears from that useless junk size the less time one wastes by having to filter off anything anybody posts from that utter waste of internet space only existing to filling purse of whoever is running that. Readers don't benefit unless they enjoy reading made up junk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Moopy wrote:
None of it changes the way the game is played or fundamentally alters the structure of the universe. The Imperium is still bloated and endlessly big, Eldar are still "waining" or whatever that means, Chaos is still plotting to get back in. There's huge fights with heroics and trechery, and secrets are revealed or knowledge lost! But nothing really changes in the big picture- it means nothing. Oh sure there's some fluff text here and there about how "desperate" things are or "teatering on the edge" but all those vauge words haven't altered a thing for a very long time. My army composition isn't changed, etc... etc...

This assumes 40k is advancing story(that by nature then stiffles players freedom) rather than setting for players to make up their own stories.

You are supposed to do your own stories in the setting in which case there's changes. You aren't supposed to just read what GW feeds you on.

But 40K isn't a story. It's a setting. It's a place you can tell endless stories in, not a story unto itself.

 Moopy wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


This is a genuine enquiry, not snark, because it baffles me and perhaps you can explain: why do people find fluff advances that fundamentally change the nature of their subject appealing? I don't mean edge-tinkering "advancement" of a storyline or soft-retcons to introduce new elements to support model releases, I mean theme-and-tone-shattering shifts that must inevitably alter most if not all of the things that characterise the subject of the changes.

This is a terrific question. It's a topic that I discussed with one of the Black Liberary writers a couple months ago.

The answer: Currently 40k feels like professional wrestling.

I've been playing since 1988 and at this point I'm not excited about any big conflicts at this point.

Orks hit Armaggeddon and are making a mess of things. So what? There's no reprocussions for the lost output of the Forgeworld.
Tyranids hit the Shield Worlds, made a mess of things and weren't stopped. So what? There's no reprocussions to the Blood Angels for losing so many warriors in that fight.
13th Black Crusade where Chaos gets on Cadia. So what?

None of it changes the way the game is played or fundamentally alters the structure of the universe. The Imperium is still bloated and endlessly big, Eldar are still "waining" or whatever that means, Chaos is still plotting to get back in. There's huge fights with heroics and trechery, and secrets are revealed or knowledge lost! But nothing really changes in the big picture- it means nothing. Oh sure there's some fluff text here and there about how "desperate" things are or "teatering on the edge" but all those vauge words haven't altered a thing for a very long time. My army composition isn't changed, etc... etc...

Just like the Imperium fluff, the setting has become static and imobile while only sounding vaguely new. If these events aren't going to actually effect things, then all the excitement is drained out of it. Thus the wrestling example. There's lots of promises of events that could happen, or might happen, but for over twenty years, they haven't happened; you an only tease people so much with a posibility before they stop paying attention to it.

If this is a change, a REAL change, then I'm very excited for it.

I didn't think I would, but I actually agree with the sentiment of this post. It would be nice to shift things along a little. They just need to be careful about what they do. I'm not one to hate on AoS but I think regarding the fluff, they dropped the ball there. 40k has a rich and deep background, souring that milk would be very unwise IMO. Part of the attraction to the game, and the reason so many people are willing to overlook all the rules inconsistencies and imbalance is the fluff and how flexible it is for players to make their own faction and drop it into this insane and crazy world that has a long and complicated history.

Sure, move things forward, but tread carefully.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But 40K isn't a story. It's a setting. It's a place you can tell endless stories in, not a story unto itself.

That's fine, the setting should be set in stone IMO. But there are still tonnes of stories within that setting that can be advanced without ruining it.