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So how do you guys go about it?

I find myself with oodles of S8 with Sunder/Tank Hunters that makes short work of anything AV13 or below but with the abundance of Armoured Ceramite removing melta as an option I find myself in unfamilar territory for killing off Landraiders,Fellblades,Spartans,etc. I had been getting mixed results out of the Primaris Lightning with Kraken missiles but the points increase has pretty much killed that one for me. My best results have been produced by a good old fashion chainfisting but that takes several turns to set up. Should I be investing my points/moneys in another option? I'm tempted by Laser Destroyer Vindicators as they seem quite deadly, but would I be wiser going for Grav or something else?

I'm tempted by Laser Destroyer Vindicators as they seem quite deadly

They really, really are. 3 shots, with rerolls to hit, (effectively) rerolls to pierce armour, and AP1. Job done.

Graviton Cannon rapiers are good antitank too, but so much worse at anything else than thudd guns that it feels a bit of a waste.

locarno24 wrote:
They really, really are. 3 shots, with rerolls to hit, (effectively) rerolls to pierce armour, and AP1. Job done.

Don't forget, with the new black book, give a squadron of three the newly revised command tank upgrade - that gives them tank hunter and monster hunter! Brutal...

Legion Falchion...
And it can now take an upgrade that gives it the 'shock pulse' rule (causing a pen forces the target vehicle to fire snap shots)(I.E use it on a fellblade and laugh manically)

Deredeo w/ the new Lascannon Battery.

2 shots at S10 AP1 and for each pen, on a 4+ you get another pen that ignores cover.

Pretty much a great catch-all unit now, since it can do AA and AT all for a measly 290pt.

commander dante wrote:
Legion Falchion...
And it can now take an upgrade that gives it the 'shock pulse' rule (causing a pen forces the target vehicle to fire snap shots)(I.E use it on a fellblade and laugh manically)

Be much cheaper to use the sicaran venator instead.

Kraken Hyper velocity missiles from a Lightning should do it.
Have to wait for turn 2 mind.

And Deredeos will eat you alive.

Melta bombs, Melta bombs everywhere

I own exactly one rapier laser destroyer (mostly 'cause I think it looks cool and quad mortars didn't exist when I bought it).

It's so durable for how cheap it is that it usually gets ignored and I can usually get a few shots off on the tank of my choice with it.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And Deredeos will eat you alive.

To be fair, they now can eat everything alive.

I am debating on getting two, but damn me if it isn't hard to justify even one as a World Eater.

Kraken Hyper velocity missiles from a Lightning should do it.
Have to wait for turn 2 mind.

Iron Warriors don't. One thing I keep wondering about is an Iron Warriors "air force" with Peturabo allowing me to bring in reserves on turn 1.

Our EC player runs with a Sicaran and Deredeo. Those two combined tend to drop a Land Raider right off the bat.

As for Spartans? Melta bombs.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Deredeo w/ the new Lascannon Battery.

2 shots at S10 AP1 and for each pen, on a 4+ you get another pen that ignores cover.

Pretty much a great catch-all unit now, since it can do AA and AT all for a measly 290pt.

They're AP2, but otherwise sure.

I just bought a Deredeo, and I'm a WE player. The WE had fire support like any other legion. And it's a good platform if you're running Berzerker Assault since it doesn't count toward the Tank/Flyer limit.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And Deredeos will eat you alive.

Well, it shouldn't be that hard to stay out of the Deredeo's arc for Interceptor fire. Of course, on following turns that changes. And with the points hike on the Kraken missiles, the Lightning has gotten a little pricey to be a one-shot, fire-and-forget weapon. It will do the job, though.

 gorgon wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Deredeo w/ the new Lascannon Battery.

2 shots at S10 AP1 and for each pen, on a 4+ you get another pen that ignores cover.

Pretty much a great catch-all unit now, since it can do AA and AT all for a measly 290pt.

They're AP2, but otherwise sure.

I just bought a Deredeo, and I'm a WE player. The WE had fire support like any other legion. And it's a good platform if you're running Berzerker Assault since it doesn't count toward the Tank/Flyer limit.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And Deredeos will eat you alive.

Well, it shouldn't be that hard to stay out of the Deredeo's arc for Interceptor fire. Of course, on following turns that changes. And with the points hike on the Kraken missiles, the Lightning has gotten a little pricey to be a one-shot, fire-and-forget weapon. It will do the job, though.

Whoops. Yes, AP2, which is still solid. And will have on as a World Eater too, but two... that is too many. I can't see them getting a lot of Deredeos. They always seemed like a Legion to favor twin DCCWs.

And yea, love the perk to the Zerk Assault as a walker.

Sicaran venators are pretty handy

likeAsir wrote:
Kraken Hyper velocity missiles from a Lightning should do it.
Have to wait for turn 2 mind.

Um... If you are re-using your user name from elsewhere then I have a horrible secret to tell you- the complete abysmal failure of my Lightning's Kraken hyper penetrators to kill your Fellblade/Leman Russes in multiple games(combined with the new book points increase) is the actual reason for this threads existence. If you are not then apologies for the assumption and my over-familiarity!

For all of you advocating Melta Bombs to kill Spartans- why is this a good idea? Surely a dedicated assault transport needs to be taken out of the game early so waiting till you can attack the thing in close combat is less than optimal?

I can see the potential in the Sicaran Venator and the Deredeo with the Heavy Lascannon, but they do seem rather expensive for a very small amount of shots.

The Deredeo at least has many roles and 290pt is a bargain.

290 pts bargain for derdeo?

For 255 you get 3x javelins with TL lascannon, multi melta and 2 HK. They are bs 5.

For less than derdeo you get 2x vindicators, you can even invest a bit more to exponentionally increase your firepower output. So you have 6-9 TL lascannon shots, that are tank hunter on top of that(if you bought 3rd)

Get spartan, you get 4x TL lascannon shots, more survivable platfor + capacity to transport 25 troops.


So how exactly is derdeo worth 290 pts? Someone please explain to me. I kidna would like to get him, but other options seem so much better for point cost.

out of that 2 shots, you will maybe get 1 pen agains AV14,chances are less than 50%. And then you have 50% chance to get pen that ignores cover. Not that bad, but not 290pts good.
WHy not inveast more and get that new knight that has those giant lascannons, can't remember rules right now?


Btw. if you had to choose between Javelins and vindicator laser destroyers. WHich ones would you choose?

The only way the Deredeo would be at 290 points is with The Heavy Las,Armoured Ceramite and Aiolos Missile Launcher so yes it will be very expensive if someone puts all the upgrades on it! For me the Deredeo is an expensive dreadnought with an absolutely fantastic gun that is spot on perfect for Anti-Air and light vehicle work that paying 50 points to upgrade it to be a marginally effective heavy armour hunter is a dubious choice.

As for the Javelins vs the Laser Destroyer Vindicators it depends really, as they are both rather good. Based on the input I've received on here and elsewhere I've gone for a pair of the Laser Destroyers, it seems the simplest choice and the one I think would work across the largest amount of legions. However if you have a way to reliably deepstrike/outflank turn 1 then I could see the Javelins working quite nicely to exploit side armour even if its just a matter of not shooting into a flare shield. It's quite a lot of conditions to be met I know, hence it not being my preferred option but as a large portion of the time the AV14 target needs to be stopped in the opponents deployment zone to strand assault units I don't see much point in anti-armour that isn't available till turn 2+

 smurfORnot wrote:
290 pts bargain for derdeo?

For 255 you get 3x javelins with TL lascannon, multi melta and 2 HK. They are bs 5.

For less than derdeo you get 2x vindicators, you can even invest a bit more to exponentionally increase your firepower output. So you have 6-9 TL lascannon shots, that are tank hunter on top of that(if you bought 3rd)

Get spartan, you get 4x TL lascannon shots, more survivable platfor + capacity to transport 25 troops.


So how exactly is derdeo worth 290 pts? Someone please explain to me. I kidna would like to get him, but other options seem so much better for point cost.

out of that 2 shots, you will maybe get 1 pen agains AV14,chances are less than 50%. And then you have 50% chance to get pen that ignores cover. Not that bad, but not 290pts good.
WHy not inveast more and get that new knight that has those giant lascannons, can't remember rules right now?


Btw. if you had to choose between Javelins and vindicator laser destroyers. WHich ones would you choose?

The Deredeo is a multi-purpose tool. It can take down aircraft and armor and only takes up one heavy slot. You are judging 290pt exclusively on the Las performance, which doesn't factor in all of its rules. The Aiolos is nice for helping to swat down lighter aircraft (AV10/11), and can target something other than the Las (or AC). Also, that 290pt gets you Armored Ceramite (making Melta need a 5+ to pen), for durability and Atomantic Shielding (giving it a 5++ against shooting). That is a solid choice, imo. The Las option also isn't mandatory - making it a lot cheaper and more suited to light armor killing instead of being able to hit heavier armor. It just depends on your style, points, and other army choices.

You don't have to choose between it and something else, either, as you can take Javs for dedicated anti-tank too. And a Spartan. I mean, that is basically what my WE list has in it.

 David Clarke wrote:

likeAsir wrote:
Kraken Hyper velocity missiles from a Lightning should do it.
Have to wait for turn 2 mind.

Um... If you are re-using your user name from elsewhere then I have a horrible secret to tell you- the complete abysmal failure of my Lightning's Kraken hyper penetrators to kill your Fellblade/Leman Russes in multiple games(combined with the new book points increase) is the actual reason for this threads existence. If you are not then apologies for the assumption and my over-familiarity!


Yeah but your dice are cursed by the primordial annihilator


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have had some luck with grav guns on double fist cortus-contemptor dreds. Move through cover is amazing fpr getting them close. Only problem is that most AV14 can shoot my dred-in-his-underwear off the board if it is in the open.

My dice are indeed cursed by the Primordial Annihilator but all does is drive me further into the arms of mathematical certainties. This may be why I dismiss a lot of the 1 shot win big or go home options other posters espouse in favour of multiple shots with dice modification as it counterbalances my curse from the dice gods.

The double grav fist contemptor cortus has been something I've considered, it just fails for me on the can I stop my opponent turn 1 front and is instead a turn 2-3 decisive result bringer.

For 165 pts grav-cortus is one of Oprah's favourite things this summer.
I am considering getting a full talon and having them run alongside a super heavy or land raider for cover.
With the reactor rules and move through cover it has an insane assault threat range (15" from start of turn on an average assault charge roll). They are fragile but hell; you can get 3 for less than 500pts.

I personally favor the scivarian venater for anti tank now.

In theory, if my mathhammering isn't far off, Vindicator Laser Destroyers can also take down an aircraft pretty reliably? If you take at least 2, you are firing 6 twin-linked S9 ordnance... That gives you at least 2 solid hits if your rolling isn't awful? Most aircraft being paper, plus your extra armor penetration die due to ordnance, and furthermore the low HP of fliers... you are pretty likely to put it down. Your chances of immobilizing it (causing crash and burn) or outright exploding it, are pretty darn good with AP1 as well. The range is only 36" however, but that is a good amount of the board in most circumstances. The biggest downside is no interceptor rule :(

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
you are firing 6 twin-linked S9 ordnance...

No, you are firing zero. Ordnance can't fire snap shots.

Some decent advice above. Additionally,

Imperial Fists tank hunters on Lascannon Heavy Support Squads.

Also, if they piled a Death Star type unit in the AV14 tank, play keep away from the clown car or just park Rhinos in front of it!

 Peregrine wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
you are firing 6 twin-linked S9 ordnance...

No, you are firing zero. Ordnance can't fire snap shots.

Inaffirmative. Blasts can't be snap shots, single shot Ordnance can snap shoot just fine, it's just that 99% of stuff that has ordnance is a blast weapon.

Pg 41 says otherwise.

"Ordnance weapons cannot fire Snap Shots".