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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I just noticed that Captain Artemis's combi-weapon does not have a one use only descriptor. So you can launch that poison template if you want to charge and do it several times.

The one-use is part of the general combi-weapon rule from the BRB.

Alendrel wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I just noticed that Captain Artemis's combi-weapon does not have a one use only descriptor. So you can launch that poison template if you want to charge and do it several times.

The one-use is part of the general combi-weapon rule from the BRB.

no it isn't. The individual profiled have one use only. The Rules for combi-weapons themselves make no mention of one use only.

Alendrel wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I just noticed that Captain Artemis's combi-weapon does not have a one use only descriptor. So you can launch that poison template if you want to charge and do it several times.

The one-use is part of the general combi-weapon rule from the BRB.

No its not, unless you consider the italicized text part of the rules and not just fluff.

Hrm I hadn't looked at that since the rulebook came out.

Well, then RAW it's not one use. But enjoy being That Guy.

Why don't we wait and see if its an intentional change before we start making accusations.

If they FAQ/errata it confirm its not one-use, I'll happily be wrong.

In the meantime I'll happily concede any game on the spot to anyone that tries to claim it isn't.

Alendrel wrote:
Hrm I hadn't looked at that since the rulebook came out.

Well, then RAW it's not one use. But enjoy being That Guy.

It's a named unique weapon, and it would not be the first unlimited use combi weapon for space marines. (Betrayer's Bane)

While anything is possible, why assume they forgot to put it

Even the description says "gouts of flame", instead of "a gout of flame"

Alendrel wrote:
If they FAQ/errata it confirm its not one-use, I'll happily be wrong.

In the meantime I'll happily concede any game on the spot to anyone that tries to claim it isn't.

That's a bit of an overreaction don't you think? It's a poisoned (2+) flamer.

It also isn't like this is the first instance of a multi-use combi-weapon: the combi-disintegrator comes to mind for one.

A million LOLZ at invoking the 30th Annivesary Marine rules as a case for ANYTHING.

And the Bane is special for being an unlimited use combi. If Artemis's weapon was just an unlimited use flamer, cool, but unlimited use AND Fleshbane? Nah, enjoy That Guying it up.

Um... Artemis's is just a Poisoned (2+) AP5 flamer, not AP2 Fleshbane.

Alendrel wrote:
Hrm I hadn't looked at that since the rulebook came out.

Well, then RAW it's not one use. But enjoy being That Guy.

Apparently following the rules makes a person "That Guy", but putting arbitrary restrictions on models that otherwise don't have them isn't. Good to know. RAW it has no restriction because it has no restriction, but good job on your rules reading capabilities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Um... Artemis's is just a Poisoned (2+) AP5 flamer, not AP2 Fleshbane.

Yeah, it is hardly broken. It is just a template version of the Poison Special Ammunition. It does afford Artemis the ability to charge if he fires it, which is pretty cool.

Alendrel wrote:
A million LOLZ at invoking the 30th Annivesary Marine rules as a case for ANYTHING.

And the Bane is special for being an unlimited use combi. If Artemis's weapon was just an unlimited use flamer, cool, but unlimited use AND Fleshbane? Nah, enjoy That Guying it up.

Artemis' gun is named "Hellfire Extermis" and it's in a box called "Relics of the Vigilant". Why exactly is that not comparable to a Space Marine Relic named Betrayer's Bane?

Combine that with the cost of a SM Captain with power sword and combi flamer is 115 points. That leaves 30 for his extra stuff.

And as stated, its poison 2+ ap5, not fleshbane.

To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.

gungo wrote:
To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.

Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.

Alendrel wrote:
Hrm I hadn't looked at that since the rulebook came out.

Well, then RAW it's not one use. But enjoy being That Guy.

I've never seen another combi-flamer that has a hose running to a tank on the backpack before.

It also mirrors the infurnus heavy bolter that is also not on use only

nagash42 wrote:
Do the deathwatch have anything to deal with the biggest xenos threat the wraith knight?

Hellfire shells and frag cannons. Heavy thunder hammers.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:
To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.

Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.

At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.

gungo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:
To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.

Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.

At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.

Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:
To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.

Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.

At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.

Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.

He's almost an auto take for any deathwatch army that requires a watch master.

gungo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:
To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.

Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.

At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.

Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.

He's almost an auto take for any deathwatch army that requires a watch master.

I wouldn't go that far. He is good for his points and has some neat abilities, but he is a far cry from auto-include.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:
To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.

Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.

At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.

Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.

He's almost an auto take for any deathwatch army that requires a watch master.

I wouldn't go that far. He is good for his points and has some neat abilities, but he is a far cry from auto-include.

are you serious?
He is 30pts more than a normal watch master for a initiative 5 str d ap1 melee atk, a 2+ Poison ap5 template, a unique warlord trait, fnp
The stasis bomb alone is worth 30pts. We haven't even seen his formation bonus yet and I fully expect nearly every deathwatch army that has a watch master to be a token Artemis leading them.

No one questions that Artemis is better than a similarly kitted out captain. But, until we see more of the rules, I wouldn't say he's "worth it" necessarily. After all, Death Watch will for me likely be an ally, and that means 1 HQ. Id rather have a librarian in a pod casting prescience on all of those frag cannons.

gungo wrote:

Spoiler:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

gungo wrote:
To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.

Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.

At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.

Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.

He's almost an auto take for any deathwatch army that requires a watch master.

I wouldn't go that far. He is good for his points and has some neat abilities, but he is a far cry from auto-include.

are you serious?
He is 30pts more than a normal watch master for a str d melee atk, a 2+ Poison ap5 template, a unique warlord trait, fnp

I know. He is an auto-include for *ME* and probably a lot of people, but in cases where one can use a watch master and his AP2 smacky-stick, they may opt for that, especially since it has a way of negating wounds that can't be stopped. To each their own. Like I said, for *ME*, this guy is a no-brainer and I look forward to dropping that stasis bomb and launching assaults after firing off a poison template.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:
No one questions that Artemis is better than a similarly kitted out captain. But, until we see more of the rules, I wouldn't say he's "worth it" necessarily. After all, Death Watch will for me likely be an ally, and that means 1 HQ. Id rather have a librarian in a pod casting prescience on all of those frag cannons.

That's what all the various Kill Teams are for. You can stuff in Librarian in all of them.

 jifel wrote:
No one questions that Artemis is better than a similarly kitted out captain. But, until we see more of the rules, I wouldn't say he's "worth it" necessarily. After all, Death Watch will for me likely be an ally, and that means 1 HQ. Id rather have a librarian in a pod casting prescience on all of those frag cannons.

Yea well time will tell how many generic watch captains we end up seeing competitively. I have my money down on not many

Watch Master or Watch Captain? I'm assuming you mean Captain since you're talking about Artemis but just wanted to make sure.

Like generic captains I doubt we'll see Watch Captains, but Watch Masters add more flexibility to the army by allowing an additional Mission Tactic change while also being pretty decent in combat (having Chapter Master stats, a 2+ and the coolness that is the guardian spear).

Shouldn't Artemis have eternal warrior? If not, a single 5pt ork rokkit would insta-kill him on a failed 4++. Or did I not read his rules correctly?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Watch Master or Watch Captain? I'm assuming you mean Captain since you're talking about Artemis but just wanted to make sure.

Like generic captains I doubt we'll see Watch Captains, but Watch Masters add more flexibility to the army by allowing an additional Mission Tactic change while also being pretty decent in combat (having Chapter Master stats, a 2+ and the coolness that is the guardian spear).

Sorry yea watch captain and Artemis also has the additional mission change.
It's like I said you won't see many watch captains that are not Artemis. He is almost an auto take for every formation that needs one.
And while he can't get 2+ armor he still has 3+, 4++ and a 6+++, and as cool as the ap2 spear is he still has an ap3 powersword and also a single use initiative 5 str D ap1 atk that's even more brutal and costs less than the watch master with spear and artificer armor.
If anything his biggest issue is lack of acces to the relic list

 JimOnMars wrote:
Shouldn't Artemis have eternal warrior? If not, a single 5pt ork rokkit would insta-kill him on a failed 4++. Or did I not read his rules correctly?

No, but Space Marines very seldom have access to Eternal Warrior(about one character per Space Marine codex gets it). This isn't really that surprising.

Alendrel wrote:
A million LOLZ at invoking the 30th Annivesary Marine rules as a case for ANYTHING.

And the Bane is special for being an unlimited use combi. If Artemis's weapon was just an unlimited use flamer, cool, but unlimited use AND Fleshbane? Nah, enjoy That Guying it up.

wow.. you must be fun at parties