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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I won't tell you how many DW pads I've bits ordered over the years then...

Yeah, I bet this upgrade kit is a hard pill to swallow. :(

Just looking at that list that had the prices in USD, if that image is correct and the Land Raider comes with the Crusader sprue and a DW upgrade sprue, you will be getting like $35 USD for almost nothing!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hanskrampf wrote:
I hope the Commander has the upgrade sprue included, the DW shoulder pads from the Commander kit and the Command Squad have no scripture on them, only the =I=

Not counting on it.

 GoonBandito wrote:

deffrekka wrote: how many pts are stalker bolters and how many can be in a squad!?! P.s i love you...

Special Weapon that costs 5pts. Any Veteran (not Vanguard Veterans or Bikers) can take a Special Weapon.

Wraithwing wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Codex in hand, ask away

Can we get some clarifications of how the kill team formations work?

E.g. If you run 5 veterans and 5 vanguard, do they have to function as one squad, or can they be split in two?

Kill Team: All of the non-vehicle units in this Formation form a single unit called a Kill Team. This counts as a single unit for all game purposes; it must be deployed as one unit and cannot be broken down into Combat Squads. The Kill Team cannot split up during the battle, even if a model within it has the Independent Character special rule.

Basically all the required units for the specific Kill Team formation join together to make one unit. ie the Aquila Kill Team will be a unit of Veterans (min 5) plus one or more choices of a Librarian, Terminator, Vanguard Veteran or Biker. All the Kill Team Formations are restricted to 10 models max, excluding Dedicated Transports.

Thanks for the info.

So it seems that mixed Kill Teams are only really beneficial for adding in one or two Terminators or Vanguards for the buffs they provide to the rest of the unit.

It means if you want all Vanguard squads or all Terminator Squads, you're going to have to run a CAD or equivalent.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Tell us about the fluff. Watch Fortresses? Are there said to be a lot of them? Is there an oath Marines take? Do they talk about their armour, the changing of the shoulder pad and all that? Does it talk about their interaction with the Ordo Xenos, or the Inquisition in general?

What heavy weapons can DW Veteran Squads get? Are there any minis in the Codex we haven't seen yet?

Fluff seems pretty good, inline with the FFG Deathwatch stuff from skimming through it. Blackshields get a mention (and are indeed a single Veteran can be upgraded into one, gaining WS5 and a rule that doubles his attacks against Characters, Monstrous Creatures, Vehicles or when outnumbered). Kill Team members are said to individualise weapon and armour loadouts, to whatever they are familiar with or have maximised the effectiveness of (though MK VIII Armour and Artifex Pattern Bolters are said to be 'common' to the Deathwatch). There's also some fluff on what strengths Kill Team members of the Chapters and some various successor Chapters bring to the Deathwatch.

There's a galactic map with about a dozen and a bit watch fortresses scattered around it, with another double page featuring some heraldic banners of various Watch Fortresses, plus some more pages going over a typical structure of a Watch Fortress as well as detail on Watch Fortress Talasa Prime (the Fortress the Kill Teams from the Death Masque box come from).

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So it seems the Watch Captain is a repack of the old Space Marine Commander kit. Since it already contains a DW pad I doubt it'll have the upgrade sprue.

Ah well I suppose that means it's available outside of the SW Get Started! box once again.

The captain HAS the new DW upgrade sprue...
cause the old DW pads were all bare with just the DW badge on it and the new pads have writings all around...
In addition if you look better you can see the small icon on top of the backack... this is a small DW icon that comes from the upgrade sprue...
And the torso appears to be the one coming from this sprue (you can see it lacks the "ropes" the original torso from this box has)...
And probably they put a DW head from the upgrade sprue on the model too...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Right, so, a Deathwatch Land Raider is a Land Raider with a Deathwatch sprue. I guess that Land Raider can really make use of 10 DW shoulder pads and a power sword. The Deathwatch Transport, again, needs another power sword... and the DW Captain will soon be the proud owner of 10+ shoulder pads!

 GoonBandito wrote:
Codex in hand, ask away

Tell us about the fluff. Watch Fortresses? Are there said to be a lot of them? Is there an oath Marines take? Do they talk about their armour, the changing of the shoulder pad and all that? Does it talk about their interaction with the Ordo Xenos, or the Inquisition in general?

What heavy weapons can DW Veteran Squads get? Are there any minis in the Codex we haven't seen yet?

It saddens me to see that HBMC of all people has to ask questions about DW fluff.

GW really has nothing but contempt for their licensors.

Wraithwing wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

deffrekka wrote: how many pts are stalker bolters and how many can be in a squad!?! P.s i love you...

Special Weapon that costs 5pts. Any Veteran (not Vanguard Veterans or Bikers) can take a Special Weapon.

Wraithwing wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Codex in hand, ask away

Can we get some clarifications of how the kill team formations work?

E.g. If you run 5 veterans and 5 vanguard, do they have to function as one squad, or can they be split in two?

Kill Team: All of the non-vehicle units in this Formation form a single unit called a Kill Team. This counts as a single unit for all game purposes; it must be deployed as one unit and cannot be broken down into Combat Squads. The Kill Team cannot split up during the battle, even if a model within it has the Independent Character special rule.

Basically all the required units for the specific Kill Team formation join together to make one unit. ie the Aquila Kill Team will be a unit of Veterans (min 5) plus one or more choices of a Librarian, Terminator, Vanguard Veteran or Biker. All the Kill Team Formations are restricted to 10 models max, excluding Dedicated Transports.

Thanks for the info.

So it seems that mixed Kill Teams are only really beneficial for adding in one or two Terminators or Vanguards for the buffs they provide to the rest of the unit.

It means if you want all Vanguard squads or all Terminator Squads, you're going to have to run a CAD or equivalent.

Yes if you want pure terminator or vanguard or bike squads you MUST runa a CAD...
All formations are about a 5-10 men veteran squad with addition of librarians/terminators/bikes/vanguards until you reach the number of 10...
It's a shenigan codex to me a bit dissapoin ting cause with all the formations they included one with just terminators or vanguard or bikes would be good... i cannot imagina that watch captains are so stupid to force bikers or jumpackers to go with footslogger...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It saddens me to see that HBMC of all people has to ask questions about DW fluff.

GW really has nothing but contempt for their licensors.

It's more a case of me wanting to know what's there, what isn't, what's changed, what hasn't. I have a good idea that it sticks to the FFG stuff, but I want details.

Like if Watch Fortress Erioch got a mention. I doubt it does, but it'd be nice.

Questions!

What is the standard loadout of the veterans?
The description of the Veteran Squad didn't mention options for powers swords or storm shields, yet the pictures show Veterans with them. So they can take those items, right?
Assuming that they can get power weapons, how much do they cost, and are they in addition to their normal weapons, or do they have to replace their pistol or bolter?
What other CC weapons they can get and how much they cost?

Can the characters (and which of them) take any of the following:
-Xeno sword
-Relic blade (the normal SM variety)
-Terminator armour
-Artificer armour
-Bike
-Jump pack
-Storm shield
-(Heavy) thunder hammer
-Any other unusual weapon or wargear that was not yet mentioned?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It saddens me to see that HBMC of all people has to ask questions about DW fluff.

GW really has nothing but contempt for their licensors.

It's more a case of me wanting to know what's there, what isn't, what's changed, what hasn't. I have a good idea that it sticks to the FFG stuff, but I want details.

Like if Watch Fortress Erioch got a mention. I doubt it does, but it'd be nice.

No mention of Erioch that I can see

Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?

Can't have a Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield by the looks of it, but any Veteran can take either. Only the Watch Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade. Terminators can't take either the Heavy Thunder Hammer or the Xenophase, though you can take Heavy Flamers, Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers on every model.

The Black Shield is an upgrade for just the Veterans or any squad can have it?
Wich options has the Black Shields?
Wich squads can have the Watch Sergeant upgrade and wich options he can take?

Can you upgrade a vanguard veteran or a terminator to a sergeant?

 GoonBandito wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?

Can't have a Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield by the looks of it, but any Veteran can take either. Only the Watch Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade. Terminators can't take either the Heavy Thunder Hammer or the Xenophase, though you can take Heavy Flamers, Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers on every model.

Darn, I was hoping for a way to get those big hammer guys to be a little more survivable. Glad that the Vanguard Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade, that seems like a good place to put one (probably going to give one a Xenophase Blade and a Storm Shield) and run him with a pair of VVs with the Heavy Thunder Hammer. It sucks that Terminators can't get anything in the way of Deathwatch goodies beyond their meltafist.

EDIT: The Vanguard Veterans can get a Watch Sergeant, I hope.

 Crimson wrote:
Questions!

What is the standard loadout of the veterans?
The description of the Veteran Squad didn't mention options for powers swords or storm shields, yet the pictures show Veterans with them. So they can take those items, right?
Assuming that they can get power weapons, how much do they cost, and are they in addition to their normal weapons, or do they have to replace their pistol or bolter?
What other CC weapons they can get and how much they cost?

Can the characters (and which of them) take any of the following:
-Xeno sword
-Relic blade (the normal SM variety)
-Terminator armour
-Artificer armour
-Bike
-Jump pack
-Storm shield
-(Heavy) thunder hammer
-Any other unusual weapon or wargear that was not yet mentioned?

Vets are 5man, up to 10. Same price as a Sternguard, but come with CCW's instead of Bolt Pistols.... Any Vet can swap their Boltgun for Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons or Special Weapons at the usual prices. Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols are in as Ranged Weapons though, and Deathwatch Shotguns and Stalker Patter Boltguns are in as Special Weapons. Any vet can swap either Boltgun or CCW for a Storm Shield, or replace all weapons for a Heavy Thunder Hammer. Sergeant can swap CCW for Xenophase. One Vet can upgrade into a Black Shield, gaining WS5 and a rule that doubles their attacks when in combat with an Independent Char, Monstrous Creature, Vehicle or when outnumbered in combat.

Watch Masters' only upgrades are from Special Issue Wargear or Relics. No Jump Pack, Storm Shield or Terminator Armour though they do come with Artificer and the Guardian Spear (Boltgun and S+1 AP2 melee weapon) by default (imo probably due to the fixed Watch Master sculpt). The only thing the Watch Captains can't take on the other hand are Special Weapons and Bikes.

Edit: forgot to mention, 4 Heavy Weapons in a Veteran Squad - Heavy Bolters (optional Hellfire Shells), Heavy Flamers, Missile Launchers (optional Flak), Infernus Heavy Bolter (optional Hellfire Shells), Frag Cannon

THT is a two handed hammer, would be ludicrous if it carried a shield as well

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Can you upgrade a vanguard veteran or a terminator to a sergeant?

No, Veterans are the only squad that can upgrade a Veteran into a Watch Sergeant (free upgrade)

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?

Can't have a Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield by the looks of it, but any Veteran can take either. Only the Watch Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade. Terminators can't take either the Heavy Thunder Hammer or the Xenophase, though you can take Heavy Flamers, Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers on every model.

Darn, I was hoping for a way to get those big hammer guys to be a little more survivable. Glad that the Vanguard Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade, that seems like a good place to put one (probably going to give one a Xenophase Blade and a Storm Shield) and run him with a pair of VVs with the Heavy Thunder Hammer. It sucks that Terminators can't get anything in the way of Deathwatch goodies beyond their meltafist.

EDIT: The Vanguard Veterans can get a Watch Sergeant, I hope.

Don't forget that cause the terminators can all have the TH/SS and the CML and you can mix and match ranged and HTH weapons like the DA ones can do you can put a CML on top of a TH/SS (or 2LCs) one so you can have shooting power and HTH punch...

do terminators grant fearless when they join a kill team?
do bikers do something similar as well?
From the podcast, I heard kelly mentioning something like this. Curious to .know if it did make it to the rules or not.

...never stopped you from carrying a Relic Bade with a Storm Shield...

A Black Shield with a 2h TH on the charge has what, five attacks against a big creature or any squad that our numbers them? Pity they are only WS4.

Might be better to use a 2hTH on a Watch Captain if you can. You know, if you are not using Artemis.

Do we have confirmation that you can't take a DP as a dedicated transport for Deathwatch Veterans? If that is the case, it kind of kills putting them in an allied formation...

 master sheol wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?

Can't have a Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield by the looks of it, but any Veteran can take either. Only the Watch Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade. Terminators can't take either the Heavy Thunder Hammer or the Xenophase, though you can take Heavy Flamers, Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers on every model.

Darn, I was hoping for a way to get those big hammer guys to be a little more survivable. Glad that the Vanguard Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade, that seems like a good place to put one (probably going to give one a Xenophase Blade and a Storm Shield) and run him with a pair of VVs with the Heavy Thunder Hammer. It sucks that Terminators can't get anything in the way of Deathwatch goodies beyond their meltafist.

EDIT: The Vanguard Veterans can get a Watch Sergeant, I hope.

Don't forget that cause the terminators can all have the TH/SS and the CML and you can mix and match ranged and HTH weapons like the DA ones can do you can put a CML on top of a TH/SS (or 2LCs) one so you can have shooting power and HTH punch...

Correct. Power Weapons, Chainfists and Power Fists with built-in Meltaguns are also options to replace the standard Power Fist.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Can you upgrade a vanguard veteran or a terminator to a sergeant?

No, Veterans are the only squad that can upgrade a Veteran into a Watch Sergeant (free upgrade)

So no Jump Pack Marines with Xenophase Blade? That is disappointing. I was really hoping to make a Vanguard Veteran that was armed with one.

 aracersss wrote:
do terminators grant fearless when they join a kill team?
do bikers do something similar as well?
From the podcast, I heard kelly mentioning something like this. Curious to .know if it did make it to the rules or not.

Terminators have Fearless. Bikers have Skilled Rider and Split Fire.

 Crazyterran wrote:
...never stopped you from carrying a Relic Bade with a Storm Shield...

A Black Shield with a 2h TH on the charge has what, five attacks against a big creature or any squad that our numbers them? Pity they are only WS4.

Might be better to use a 2hTH on a Watch Captain if you can. You know, if you are not using Artemis.

Do we have confirmation that you can't take a DP as a dedicated transport for Deathwatch Veterans? If that is the case, it kind of kills putting them in an allied formation...

It sounds like Blackshields are WS5. So that softens the blow a bit.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Can you upgrade a vanguard veteran or a terminator to a sergeant?

No, Veterans are the only squad that can upgrade a Veteran into a Watch Sergeant (free upgrade)

So no Jump Pack Marines with Xenophase Blade? That is disappointing. I was really hoping to make a Vanguard Veteran that was armed with one.

Nope, they can take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers though (Adepta Sororitas Seraphim Squad envy I think...)

Does the codex have a special force org? Something that perhaps increases their elite or fast attack choices?

 Crazyterran wrote:
...never stopped you from carrying a Relic Bade with a Storm Shield...

A Black Shield with a 2h TH on the charge has what, five attacks against a big creature or any squad that our numbers them? Pity they are only WS4.

Might be better to use a 2hTH on a Watch Captain if you can. You know, if you are not using Artemis.

Do we have confirmation that you can't take a DP as a dedicated transport for Deathwatch Veterans? If that is the case, it kind of kills putting them in an allied formation...

Veterans can take Rhino, Razorback (no Las/Plas or Heavy Flamer options curiously), Corvus Blackstar or Drop Pods as DT.

So can a watch master get a bike? And the watch captain can only have a jump pack?

 deffrekka wrote:
So can a watch master get a bike? And the watch captain can only have a jump pack?

Deathwatch do not get Bikes or Jump Packs as Special Issue Wargear, so no IC's on bikes. Watch Master and Chaplains are stuck on foot, Watch Captains can take Jump Packs and both Watch Captains and Librarians can take Terminator Armour.

So a five man squad in a pod, equipped with four frag launchers, would be 245 points? Not bad.

On the other hand, a five combi melta Ultramarines Sternguard squad costs 195 points, and will do better vs tanks and worse vs GCs / MCs.

Might be worth it over my Shadowstrike Killteam, though, simply because close combat = luls.