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I rarely agree with Whembly, but he has a point here. He doesn't want to support Trump, he doesn't want to support Hillary. By voting third party he denies either of them a vote while not reducing the overall total of votes cast. Because third party candidates aren't going to win anyway, one can safely vote for them regardless of how bad they are. If a third party gets, say, 10% of the national vote this year it means nothing in terms of electoral college or political power. But it sends a message to the big parties that if they continue to present options like these that 10% can keep increasing.
The attitude that a vote for a third party is a vote wasted is, somewhat ironically, the main factor in keeping those parties irrelevant. As Ouze said earlier, the only vote wasted is the vote you never cast.
That would be the case if both candidates are equally bad...in this case one of the candidates is an order of magnitude worse than the other.
On other news...Trump is apparently trying to play off his comments as being a long time ago and that he's evolved. In a lot of candidates, I'd be willing to accept that. However, Trump has proven in this election that he hasn't evolved with other, much more recent, comments...
skyth wrote: That would be the case if both candidates are equally bad...in this case one of the candidates is an order of magnitude worse than the other.
On other news...Trump is apparently trying to play off his comments as being a long time ago and that he's evolved. In a lot of candidates, I'd be willing to accept that. However, Trump has proven in this election that he hasn't evolved with other, much more recent, comments...
You know he might have been able to play this off with an actual sorry but nope he went with sorry not sorry. What is interesting is how his storm troopers are setting out to defend him by any means necessary. Cognitive dissonance should be the new Republican motto at this point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/08 17:45:00
skyth wrote: That would be the case if both candidates are equally bad...in this case one of the candidates is an order of magnitude worse than the other.
On other news...Trump is apparently trying to play off his comments as being a long time ago and that he's evolved. In a lot of candidates, I'd be willing to accept that. However, Trump has proven in this election that he hasn't evolved with other, much more recent, comments...
I'm also not sure it really works when eleven years ago puts him at, what, the youthful inexperienced age of 60. I'm not sure how much evolving really happens from the age of 60-71.
And my guess is the Clinton oppo team has many, many more videos they can dribble out as needed that might be even more vile.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/08 19:26:54
NinthMusketeer wrote: I rarely agree with Whembly, but he has a point here. He doesn't want to support Trump, he doesn't want to support Hillary. By voting third party he denies either of them a vote while not reducing the overall total of votes cast. Because third party candidates aren't going to win anyway, one can safely vote for them regardless of how bad they are. If a third party gets, say, 10% of the national vote this year it means nothing in terms of electoral college or political power. But it sends a message to the big parties that if they continue to present options like these that 10% can keep increasing.
The attitude that a vote for a third party is a vote wasted is, somewhat ironically, the main factor in keeping those parties irrelevant. As Ouze said earlier, the only vote wasted is the vote you never cast.
Thank you buddy... yes, that is exactly where I'm at.
EDIT: Here's a live look at the state of the GOP and RNC!!!
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/08 20:43:31
Having just sat through the Brexit vote in which the pundits happily predicted that we would remain (including the 'exiteers'), never dismiss the ability of the populace to make unexpected choices.
Cheers
Andrew
Heck, after that there were a lot of people going "I abstained from voting / voted leave as a protest, I didn't think it would actually happen!"
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
NinthMusketeer wrote: I rarely agree with Whembly, but he has a point here. He doesn't want to support Trump, he doesn't want to support Hillary. By voting third party he denies either of them a vote while not reducing the overall total of votes cast. Because third party candidates aren't going to win anyway, one can safely vote for them regardless of how bad they are. If a third party gets, say, 10% of the national vote this year it means nothing in terms of electoral college or political power. But it sends a message to the big parties that if they continue to present options like these that 10% can keep increasing.
The attitude that a vote for a third party is a vote wasted is, somewhat ironically, the main factor in keeping those parties irrelevant. As Ouze said earlier, the only vote wasted is the vote you never cast.
Thank you buddy... yes, that is exactly where I'm at.
However, the difference between you and others who are "protest voting" is that you are walking the walk in that you've also said you'll do the same down ballot as well. Simply put, a third party vote for President IS a waste if the voter is otherwise a good little party member on the rest of the ballot.
EDIT: Here's a live look at the state of the GOP and RNC!!!
Spoiler:
Yeah, condemnations from Pence, McCain pulling out, even his wife commenting. Woo, boy. You know what Hillary's best possible response to this could be at the debate? "There's nothing else I could say that hasn't already been said by Pence McCain, etc." Just namedrop all the big Rs that are speaking out now.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
WrentheFaceless wrote: So yea. Trump's mouth is his most dangerous asset, I think he torpedoed any semblance of a chance of having any sort of significant female vote.
His mouth is just the messenger of what is going on in his absolutely fethed up head. This is who he is and after that 'Access Hollywood' tape if he only loses "some more" of the women's vote, then what does that say about this country?
In my opinion and as far as I'm concerned...
GOP loyalists that support and vote for this abomination are traitors to the legacy of Lincoln.
Women who vote for this abomination, just shame on you.
Fathers who have daughters and vote for this abomination don't deserve the honor of the title.
Men who have wives, girlfriends, significant others that cast a vote for this abomination should really take a look at what marriage and a relationship with a woman as your partner is all about.
Forget politics, he is an atrocious human being as far I'm concerned and God help us if he becomes our representative to the world.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/08 23:37:30
BigWaaagh wrote: .
Forget politics, he is an atrocious human being as far I'm concerned and God help us if he becomes our representative to the world.
A good chunk of this country was already willing to let him represent us to the world when he was just saying things like "ban all the Muslims", "I like soldiers who weren't captured", etc.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
BigWaaagh wrote: .
Forget politics, he is an atrocious human being as far I'm concerned and God help us if he becomes our representative to the world.
A good chunk of this country was already willing to let him represent us to the world when he was just saying things like "ban all the Muslims", "I like soldiers who weren't captured", etc.
As foul and ignorant as some of his comments have been, I can almost write off a majority of it as pandering to his base of deplorables. The comments now in question, however, can not be explained away as anything resembling political strategy, but go to the root character of the individual responsible.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/10/09 03:07:44
The video prompted numerous GOP members to withdraw their support and urge Trump to drop out. But Trump didn't seem fazed. “I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,”
Well that explains why he's got so many kids ... but, given that video, how much of it was consensual?
Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun
So in Trumpland at the moment, direct sexist and offensive quotes about women 11 years ago is not the person he is now, but Hilary Clinton is the Antichrist incarnate for comments and actions taken over Bills infidelities in the late 90s'
WTF
Andrew
I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!
Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
The part of this that really breaks my heart is that no one had a camera pointed at Hillary when the news broke. If we thought her earlier gifs were memetastic, that footage would have blown our minds.
What's blowing my mind is that all of a sudden, this is a bridge too far for Republicans - everything he said before was OK or at least palatable, but now, whoa, that's too much? These guys drank their way through 90% of a quart of spoiled milk, and suddenly now they don't like the taste?
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Is it really that much of a surprise, Ouze, when you think about it?
I want to say more, but it'd probably be impolite. I'm just generally thinking of the typical social circle of a supporter, and who it would include and who it wouldn't...
Ouze wrote: What's blowing my mind is that all of a sudden, this is a bridge too far for Republicans - everything he said before was OK or at least palatable, but now, whoa, that's too much? These guys drank their way through 90% of a quart of spoiled milk, and suddenly now they don't like the taste?
Don't forget that some people were more alarmed by the language that Nixon used on the Watergate tapes than the actual criminal acts revealed by the tapes.
Some people are really, really dumb.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/09 02:26:52
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The part of this that really breaks my heart is that no one had a camera pointed at Hillary when the news broke. If we thought her earlier gifs were memetastic, that footage would have blown our minds.
Oh, i think we know exactly what her reaction was:
Spoiler:
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The part of this that really breaks my heart is that no one had a camera pointed at Hillary when the news broke. If we thought her earlier gifs were memetastic, that footage would have blown our minds.
Oh, i think we know exactly what her reaction was:
Spoiler:
Considering her dazzlement at the balloons and her shimmy during the debate, that gif is at least two orders of magnitude too reserved. I imagine her laughing like Sam Neill at the end of In the Mouth of Madness. And we didn't get to see it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/09 02:40:19
Ouze wrote: What's blowing my mind is that all of a sudden, this is a bridge too far for Republicans - everything he said before was OK or at least palatable, but now, whoa, that's too much? These guys drank their way through 90% of a quart of spoiled milk, and suddenly now they don't like the taste?
I wonder how Ted Cruz feels right about now...
Didn't like the taste. Capitulated moral high ground and took a taste. Stuffed!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/09 03:05:35
Yes, Ted Cruz truly took the worst of all possible roads.
I looked upon his total refusal to endorse Trump with a bit of admiration. Cruz is a man who I loathe, but at least he stood by his principles despite enormous pressure. If he hadn't caved, he would have a powerful headwind for 2020, the equivalent of Obama's "I'd go to Pakistan to get OBL" - the man who was mocked for being right, who actually turned out to be right!
Instead, he capitulated, and was seen as a craven by everyone involved. Not only did he gain nothing, he burned that opportunity as well.
Ouze wrote: Yes, Ted Cruz truly took the worst of all possible roads.
I looked upon his total refusal to endorse Trump with a bit of admiration. Cruz is a man who I loathe, but at least he stood by his principles despite enormous pressure. If he hadn't caved, he would have a powerful headwind for 2020, the equivalent of Obama's "I'd go to Pakistan to get OBL" - the man who was mocked for being right, who actually turned out to be right!
Instead, he capitulated, and was seen as a craven by everyone involved. Not only did he gain nothing, he burned that opportunity as well.
Extraordinary, isn't it? Trump's supporters are anti-establishment -- his great appeal is his distance from "politics as usual" -- now they are upset that he isn't being supported by the establishment.
Kilkrazy wrote: Extraordinary, isn't it? Trump's supporters are anti-establishment -- his great appeal is his distance from "politics as usual" -- now they are upset that he isn't being supported by the establishment.
It's about as wacky as the Libertarians who support Gary Johnson explicitly so the libertarian party can get to the polling threshold to qualify for federal matching funds. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In other news, 538's nowcast shows HRC having an 86.6% chance of winning the election.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Kilkrazy wrote: Extraordinary, isn't it? Trump's supporters are anti-establishment -- his great appeal is his distance from "politics as usual" -- now they are upset that he isn't being supported by the establishment.
It's about as wacky as the Libertarians who support Gary Johnson explicitly so the libertarian party can get to the polling threshold to qualify for federal matching funds. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In other news, 538's nowcast shows HRC having an 86.6% chance of winning the election.
Back during my "minor party official" days, we constantly had to deal with a handful of true self-identified anarchists who always tried to run for party office to reform it into a "true" anarchist political party who can run anarchists for local offices.
Wow, it really happened fast. But then, if you pull out a stick from an already wobbly stick tower, it's not surprising it suddenly crumbles.
From the last article linked, there was this pearl from a Trump supporter:
“They’re very repressive of support for the person who’s going to run our country, and I think that’s sad,” he said. “Thanks a lot Paul for taking [Trump] away from us.”
So now, if Trump loses, it's not because of Hillary or even rigged election, it's because of Paul Ryan. Priceless.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/09 10:49:00
Sarouan wrote: So now, if Trump loses, it's not because of Hillary or even rigged election, it's because of Paul Ryan. Priceless.
Self-delusion is a helluva drug.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
NinthMusketeer wrote: I rarely agree with Whembly, but he has a point here. He doesn't want to support Trump, he doesn't want to support Hillary. By voting third party he denies either of them a vote while not reducing the overall total of votes cast. Because third party candidates aren't going to win anyway, one can safely vote for them regardless of how bad they are. If a third party gets, say, 10% of the national vote this year it means nothing in terms of electoral college or political power. But it sends a message to the big parties that if they continue to present options like these that 10% can keep increasing.
The attitude that a vote for a third party is a vote wasted is, somewhat ironically, the main factor in keeping those parties irrelevant. As Ouze said earlier, the only vote wasted is the vote you never cast.
But he's helping Trump.
It's really simple. There's 2 candinates that can win the election. ANY action you do therefore benefits one or the other. It's flat out impossible to have decision that doesn't help one of them. Vote that is not cast or cast to somebody who cannot win always help protest candinate. Which Trump is.
You do know that vote can be #forX for TWO things? If you vote for 3rd party it can be #for3rdparty and #fortrump at the same time.
His action helps trump. Therefore his action is(regardless of what other goals it has) also #fortrump. Making his #nevertrump statement lie.
Any action you make is #forX for EVERY thing that helps from your action. So trying to claim it's not for some of them when it is is just flat out deluding yourself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/09 11:40:30
