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So many Options in this army i feel kind of overwhelmed...

I like the idea of the Kill Team incorporation Termis and Vanguards, the added options and special rules are pretty neat, but it fells like a lot of stuff could be done with a CAD for fewer points.

I'm kind of playing with the idea of putting a bunch of stuff into droppods for some hurtfull Alpha Strikes and holding objectives within the enemy deployment.

- 1 Dread in Pod with Multimelta and Fist for some tank hunting
- 2 pods with Veterans, one fitted for Tank/MC hunting (Frag Cannon and Melta) and one for mass infantry killing (Shotguns/Infernum Bolter)

2 pods come first turn and with the chapt tactic you can pretty much alpha anything you dont like.

Keep some Termis in DS-reserve, add a bike group for additional Teleport homers and Meltabombing and 1 or 2 Veteran troops with little extras in Rhino or Razorback.

This should keep the Army mobile enough to fight for objectives while not making them super squishy thanks to transports and 3+ Jink Bikes.

 Leth wrote:

Kaliban101 wrote:
So I, like I'm sure a lot of people are, am looking at my shiny new Venerable Dreadnought wondering "what am I going to do with you".

Normally a venerable dread is a model I wouldn't even consider, an ironclad is the only model that looks remotely usable with that s6 immunity from the av13.

However the deathwatch codex is rather limited in its non infantry units, can a ven dread be in anyway useful? perhaps a long range fire support or a suicide pod to draw fire from the 1w 3+ guys?

FW teased that you can use contemptors in DW so I am waiting to see if they FAQ the contemptor as well as the Terminator Captain armor.

Ohh where did you see that hint? A cataphractii captain with some stalker bolter veterans would be pretty handy.



As with any elite infantry force, Lias Issodon would make a handy ally allowing options other than drop pods for getting frag cannons in range. Also a bit rules lawyer-y and definitely not rules as intended but being as deathwatch aren't in the FAQ wouldn't the scout and 1st stealth of any raptor ICs confer to squads due to not having chapter tactics as such and not being any of the mentioned meq forces that cancel out chapter tactics.

A fluffy option I'd like to get to work but can't figure out how is and ordo xeno inquisitor, rad grenades with heavy thunder hammers would be pretty nasty, but with allies being unable to be deployed in transports in the FAQ I can't think of an effective delivery method.

An aquila killteam of 9 veterans with stalker bolters + regular bolters and a librarian with the Aegis relic would be pretty rude if you manage to roll Phase Form on one of your libs. Go wherever you want, sit wherever you want, shoot anything within range twice, ignore cover. Reroll 1s to hit, wound on a rerollable 2+ with sniper-rending. Great for hunting bikes.

I like the idea of solo terminators (maybe with a cyclone + storm shield) but I think you have to run a CAD to use terms by themselves, which means two vet squads without kill team rerolls.

Whats everyone thoughts on the Deathwatch bikes? For 30 points (35 with a power weapon of your choice) you get a veteran stat line on a bike with special ammo, skilled rider and split fire. I was thinking of taking small squads of 2 to get some good MSU going on while still retaining punch.

I'm going to give them a first go tomorrow. Right now I don't have any concrete lists or tactics, aside from every veteran counts as having a backup shotgun instead of a chainsword. I haven't modeled any this way yet, because there's a chance an FAQ or designers note would prohibit it. It's obviously RAW, but some folks in the rumors thread acted as though it was obviously an oversight. I don't feel that way and eventually I'll paint some shotguns and attach them strapped to my model's backs ala gears of war.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Whats everyone thoughts on the Deathwatch bikes? For 30 points (35 with a power weapon of your choice) you get a veteran stat line on a bike with special ammo, skilled rider and split fire. I was thinking of taking small squads of 2 to get some good MSU going on while still retaining punch.

Probably not a bad tactic, but consider an Aquila Kill Team with a single bike. He would confer split fire to the whole squad, so your combi-melta can fire at a vehicle and the biker can pour his special issue ammunition into an infantry unit along with the rest of the bolters. Then you have options for where to charge afterwards. As a minor bonus, the whole unit gets skilled rider, meaning even the foot-dudes auto-pass dangerous terrain tests!

The super-MSU idea is probably more practical, though. I used to have great success with single Big Mek bikes hiding out of LOS and being very disruptive to certain armies.

 SkrawnyNob wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Whats everyone thoughts on the Deathwatch bikes? For 30 points (35 with a power weapon of your choice) you get a veteran stat line on a bike with special ammo, skilled rider and split fire. I was thinking of taking small squads of 2 to get some good MSU going on while still retaining punch.

Probably not a bad tactic, but consider an Aquila Kill Team with a single bike. He would confer split fire to the whole squad, so your combi-melta can fire at a vehicle and the biker can pour his special issue ammunition into an infantry unit along with the rest of the bolters. Then you have options for where to charge afterwards. As a minor bonus, the whole unit gets skilled rider, meaning even the foot-dudes auto-pass dangerous terrain tests!

The super-MSU idea is probably more practical, though. I used to have great success with single Big Mek bikes hiding out of LOS and being very disruptive to certain armies.

I thought of that, but the problem I ran into is that they would be forced to footslog and just die or take the good, but expensive flyer.

I'm pretty much planning on Aquila KT's right now, have a Missile Launcher team in the mix with terminators and a lib for divination, but since you can only do 4 heavy weapons, I'm not sure what to do with the 5th vet. Probably going to upgrade to sergeant for a character to take challenges if they get charged, and give him a stalker.

Then I'm thinking of a stalker squad, again with lib for divination.

The obligatory drop pod Frag Cannon team.

My biggest worry is heavy armor, as there's actually a decent amount of it in my meta. So I'm thinking possibly a Malleus KT for Heavy Support tactics with TH/SS terms, a HTH or two vets, and SS protecting the beatsticks. But how to get them where they need to be? Dunno the best way. Maybe just more frag cannons instead? Impact is pretty beast for a special rule.

If FW allows the BaC stuff to be used with DW, that could be very very cool.

Also, I'm currently looking at using the Decurion, but I really don't think I'll make a lot of use of the deep strike, outside of the Malleus KT (if I build it).

BossJakadakk wrote:


My biggest worry is heavy armor, as there's actually a decent amount of it in my meta. So I'm thinking possibly a Malleus KT for Heavy Support tactics with TH/SS terms, a HTH or two vets, and SS protecting the beatsticks. But how to get them where they need to be? Dunno the best way. Maybe just more frag cannons instead? Impact is pretty beast for a special rule.
.

The answer is always more Aquila Frag Cannons.

IMO Deathwatch melee will not be competitive. They are slow, expensive, and not durable. T4 W1 is easy to take down(relative to the points). Just a HTH Vet is 52 points! You'd need a Corvus Blackstar to get them into melee.

I'm hoping that they get something to make their melee viable in the form of a White Dwarf formation.

What's the thought on blackshields?

From what I understand the optimal loadout would be shield and hammer, but would it get his points back?

Or are his rules easily overlooked for the RoC factor that he brings in?

Veteran with BS and HTH costs 67 points. From a practicality standpoint, he's a liability. From a coolness perspective YAAAAAAAAAAY!

Played my first (technically 2) matches with DeathWatch yesterday. The first game was just a skirmish, 150 point vet squad vs another vet squad for a new player. I managed to get in range for vengeance rounds before he did so that ended quickly.

The second match was an actual game - 1500 points vs an ork horde! My list was a black spear strike force:
Command - Chaplain
Command - Captain - Xenophase, Jump Pack, Artificier
Command - Captain - TDA, Relic Blade, Beacon Angelis, Auspex (that i completely forgot to use)

Aux - Venerable Dread - TLLC/HF
Aux - Venerable Dread - Assault Cannon/HF

Core - Aquila KT - LIbrarian - ML2, Tome of Ectoclades (Geokinesis)
7x Veterans - 6x Stalker Boltguns, 1x Bolter

Core - Strategium KT - Captain Artemis
Aquila KT - 5x Veterans, Combi-Meltas
2x Vanguard - 2xStormShield/Lightning Claw
2x Terminators - 2x MeltaFists, 1x Heavy Flamer


The Ork horde was 4 units of 30 boyz with choppa/slugga/nob-PK/BP, a warboss in eavy armor with headwoppa's killchoppa, a unit of 15 lootas with a big mek in mega armor, a painboy (in the mob of boys with the warboss), and 5x rokkit buggies.

the mission we rolled up was the relic - good for me as he had me outnumbered and far more units than I did. I had first turn, and immediately moved to the center of the board. Most of his shooting bounced off my 2+ saves i had in the front of my strategium kill team, though he did instagib my librarian with an outflanking rokkit buggy. The huge KT chewed through 2 units of ork boys in melee, shot another to pieces and caused them to run away, and also destroyed all the lootas in 1 round of combat. Mission Tactics, and hatred from the chaplain both played a huge role in their success.

Overall I had worries at the start of the game that I wouldn't have a chance. But by the end of the game I had only lost my 2 dreads (to power klaws) and 3 infantry models. I can't wait to get home later today and paint another couple of veterans now.

If I can get stuff together through this week, I might play DW in a 1250 event on Sunday. Just depends on how much time I have, and what comes in, because the list I wrote for it is pretty much small squads in a Black Spear SF with different loadouts to try out different weapons.

@Tetrisphreak: How did rolling on Geokinesis work out for you in the stalker squad? I keep looking at powers and thinking Divination is what I want to use in a general sense for my Aquilas, changing for (possibly) certain matchups.

so far ive decided on 2 furor kill teams consisting on 2x9 vets with all stalkers and back up bolters to move and shoot and a cyclone termy each, to sit on back field objectives as dragon fire + sniper vs bikes means 6's are just fatal and with the reroll to wound vs troops (space marine and eldar bikers heck even zhadsnarks bikers) its lethal, then 2 sets of 5 aquila kill teams with 4 frag cannons, watch sergeant with auspex and another pair of cyclone termies.

I was debating a CC squad for artemis but my god it piles up in pts quick... thats the only part im stuck on atm, a squad for artemis..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also had an idea of either squads of 1 or 2 vanguard vets with dual hand flamers/inferno pistols jumping round the board being an annoyance capping objectives or roasting small squads to make way for other units to clear line of sight... what do you guys think of small vanguard squads?

They either over kill them or leave them alone to be a harrassment team.

 deffrekka wrote:

I also had an idea of either squads of 1 or 2 vanguard vets with dual hand flamers/inferno pistols jumping round the board being an annoyance capping objectives or roasting small squads to make way for other units to clear line of sight... what do you guys think of small vanguard squads?

They either over kill them or leave them alone to be a harrassment team.

I was thinking about something like this too. It's kinda funny to me. It's risky, but yeah, you could make them use a whole squad to shoot at 1 or 2 models, while your units that actually matter are raising hell elsewhere, unless your opponent wants to let the vanguards run amok. Would be pretty annoying units.

I had a thought in which I took three 1-man units of VV with HTH.

Stuff got krumped because they could abuse LOS rather easily what with being so small and fast, but they're hardly going to be popping a tank reliably with 2 attacks base and only a T4 3+ to save them.

Only problem is we only have 3 elite slots unless we take multiple CAD's.. shame wish the decurion had a auxillary for just vanguard and/or bikers

Yeah... annoying af.

See whyve theyve done it though, imagine 1+ squads of lone cowboy vanguard where only the pts limit is well.. the limit

BossJakadakk wrote:
If I can get stuff together through this week, I might play DW in a 1250 event on Sunday. Just depends on how much time I have, and what comes in, because the list I wrote for it is pretty much small squads in a Black Spear SF with different loadouts to try out different weapons.

@Tetrisphreak: How did rolling on Geokinesis work out for you in the stalker squad? I keep looking at powers and thinking Divination is what I want to use in a general sense for my Aquilas, changing for (possibly) certain matchups.

It was ok but I only rolled land quake and earth blood, and lost land quake to a perils. I chose geokinesis hoping for phase form, or shifting worldscape. Also I chose it because I knew he had a footslog horde army and there are lots of powers in that book that impede movement, and chasm is a great primaris vs an army with tons of 30-model units. But he died to a rokkit on turn 2 and had perils in turn 1 so I'll have to give the librarian more field research.

Unbound. 1500 points.

27 ish VV with HTH running aroubd as msu.

It makes sense, but at the same time makes me sad haha. They make all these units minimum size of 1, but only so that when they say "1 unit of X" in a formation, you only have to take 1 if you don't want more. I keep thinking about how I would build a CAD, but I just don't know. It honestly probably would just be filling elite slots with units of 2-3 vanguard vets. I'm not gonna take terminators on their own, don't want to buy a LR to throw them in, and dreadnoughts are pretty meh.

Plus, every time I look at making a CAD, I write down a troops unit and think how much better it is as an Aquila KT.

Pfft who plays unbound

Artemis used his stasis bomb to send a mega armor big mek out of space and time, so that was pretty awesome.

 deffrekka wrote:
Pfft who plays unbound

I might, now, with Selym's list


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Artemis used his stasis bomb to send a mega armor big mek out of space and time, so that was pretty awesome.

Nice! Also, I've seen people saying that Artemis can replace a Captain in formations, is that in the Death Masque booklet? I didn't see it on his data sheet, and my box hasn't arrived yet :(

Yea its in the death masque book, same with the harlies, you can replace a squad in a formation with the named version

Is it bad that I'm honestly considering the hideously expensive thought of doing a squad that's 4x frag cannons, 5x Storm shields on vets and 4x Libs with choosing telepathy until I get invis, then divination/sanctic for whatever I can get?

Just seems to be the best way to get a survivable ball of death out there and with the ability to get it into the enemies board edge turn 1 with no scatter it could be amazingly alpha strikey.

Also I built my death masque models into a combat unit. Power swords, THT, TH/SH and a black shield. Should be pretty damn choppy, just need to get it to the enemy.

Your unit will cost as much as a titan, will risk failing the powers, and will have the damage output of two squads of devastators.

's a'ight.

I take it this is the Go-To shooty weapon? Drop podding in 5 dudes, with 4 of these and light them up?

Deatchwatch Frag cannon: Template S6 AP- Assault2, Rending

24" S7 AP3, Assault 2, Impact

Impact: if target is at 12" or less: S9 and AP2

Seems like they'll be one hit wonders to me.